New game - The Art of War, Fight!
 

New game, The Art of War,

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperilled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle."

No diplomacy game!

Age - MA game

Players - 16

MAP – Glory of the Gods

Nations - they will be randomly assigned, there will be no trading of nations if you do not like what you get.

Mods – CBM 1.5

Victory conditions – capture 8 capitals, once you have achieved your goal send you turn to the non playing admin, WingedDog for inspection.


Game settings:

Independents - 5
Research - Standard
Magic Sites - 45
Money - Default
Resources - Default
Supplies - Default
Random Events - Default (which is Common)
Re-naming - Off
Score Graphs - On
Hall Of Fame – 15
No exploits, stacking domes, copying Bogus orders and such

Hosting Schedule, Delays, Stale Turns, AI/Substitutes
A rough schedule will be -
First Turn - 48h.
Turn 2-20 - 24h quickhost
Turn 20 and beyond – negotiable
Personally, I feel that there should not be any delays made in the first 15-20 turns, people tend to lose interest and that might trigger a chain-reaction.

One more thing, do not sign up unless you can commit to this game and vanish without a trace at the first sight of defeat,

Everybody's welcome, and everything's up for negotiations, sign up.
State your settings and proposals for this game, Ashdod is banned.

List of players so far:

Baalz
Zeldor
Alpine Joe
Trumanator
Isokron
Sambo
Shuma
Statttis
Cerlin
Dragar
Calahan
Agema
TheDemon
hEad
shard
Executor

NATIONS:

Ermor -
Man - played by Dragar
Marginon -
Mictlan -
Machaka -
Agartha -
Abysia -
Cealum - played by Statttis
C'tis -
Pangaea - played by Executor
Vanheim -
Jotunheim- played by Shuma
Shiny - played by Cerlin, Strech played the last few turns to make the dead man stand
Atlantis -
Oceania -
Eriu -
__________________________________________________ ______________ UPDATE>

CBM 1.5 can be found here.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43120

In case of breaking communication, and violating the no diplomacy rule, you will be either turned AI or there will be found a permanent sub. There will be no excuses.
You may not reveal your identity or "your Empires affair" at any time. Once you are eliminated you may post which nation you played if you want, but not who killed you.
BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU POST!

Everybody is free to comment on stuff like indie strength, and other harmless stuff like that as long as it doesn't jeopardize you or another player.

Do not use your own names on Pretenders! I recon just leave them as they are.

Send in your pretender and let the battle commence.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

I have some spare time lately, and could help to assign the nations, and perhabs co-admining.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

I'll play

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

What would be so special about that game? There is RAND starting right now for a bit more experienced players, so you may have it hard to get vets here. I am tempted to join, with with random nations in MA I can get smth sucky. Can I resign if I really don't like the nation I get? And Ashdod is of course banned?

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

I don't know why Ashdod would be banned?

How did I not see that new no diplomacy game???
(edit: so it appears that teh RAND-DOM DOWN is invites only)

However you are correct about vets Zeldor, so I'll open this game for everybody. I'll probably just admin this then, unless someone who doesn't play volunteers to co-admin, and maybe Pasha will open that game for more players so I can play there perhaps, who knows...

No diplomacy, EVERYTHING up for negotiations.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

no diplomacy means no in-game messaging too?

Ashdod is way way more powerful than any other nation that ever existed. You can make a team game, teams of 3, Ashdod alone, and he will win. I think Ashdod is banned in pretty much every game. There is no sense in playing with them, especially with no diplo to gang on them.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

I think there should be no in-game messaging either. Slow but still possible way to team up and form alliances, and there should be no diplomacy.

It's been a while since I played a MA game with Ashdod, back than they didn't seem that all-mighty, maybe something changed in the meantime, thought their EA cousin was the bad guy.
But yeah, we can bane Ashdod. However I think a vote would be fare.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

I would like to play in this.

I don't care if Ashdod is in either way.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

Executor:

Look at the Ashdod thread in main section. Hinnom was the bad guy because it got a lot of attention early on. So devs did read it and reacted. But then people tried Ashdod and took a better look and noticed how uber it is. There is not much ranting about it now because it is banned in 90% of MA games [and MA games are really uncommon recently]. You can ask some vets :)

Anyway, I am in, but there are few nations that I don't want to play, so if I roll one of them, I will have to step out.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

It says no diplomacy, but later on you talk about not breaking NAPs and agreements... aren't those mutually exclusive concepts?

Edit: So it looks like it's definitely no making NAPs/alliances/etc.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

Hm, Ashdod sure does have an overwhelming magical force,
and Adons can easily become SC's with 3 misc sloths! What's up with that?
Heat for free design bonus, forge bonus, possible strong bless with good scales...
OK, I'll have to say no to Ashdod in this game.

Quote
It says no diplomacy, but later on you talk about not breaking NAPs and agreements... aren't those mutually exclusive concepts?

Ah, yeah, that was before being sure that this would be a no diplomacy game, I've changed some things since than.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

Well since it looks like I'm SOL on the RAND game I guess I'll join this one. As far as Ashdod goes, I haven't really had any firsthand experience with them, so I'll just go with whatever everyone else wants. As far as nations I don't want to play... I suppose that I can play anything short of Oceania at least marginally well.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

I would be interested in joining. I have no special requests for any of the stuff left open.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

Executor
Ummmmm... You must have misunderstood me. :) I didn't mean to take part in this game, I just volunteered for helping you as a third party in assigning the nations and co-admining if it is required.

Re: New game, new idea, The Art of War
 

I have indeed misunderstood you, thank you for offering to co-admin with me very much!
This opens the possibility for me to play in this game now.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Looks like fun! I'm in!

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Also could I suggest CBM?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I would like to try, but what is meant by no diplomacy? Obviously no board PMs and in game messages but no trading also? What about the ever-common "XXX kicked my ***, he's too powerful now, gang 'im!" board posts?

Is the point of the game no one knows who plays who?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I'd like to join in.

CBM nerfs Ashdod pretty hard from what I've seen. If you use it, you shouldn't need to ban Ashdod.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Hrrrm I may join this, Ive got a fair bit on my plate at the moment, You dont have a set number of players your looking for so maybe just include me for now but if some other games heat up I may have to drop this before it starts.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I get the feeling that the main 'new' thing about this game is being missed by a lot of posters - Executor is chasing only vets that have won MP games ;)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Well, I'm no vet, but check the Hall for my name. ;)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

While I would prefer more vets in this game I think that isn't going to happen, so everybody's free to enter this game.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

ah, in that case I'm in :)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I'd like CBM used too, of course. That's pretty standard now. And new version is coming, maybe even today. CBM didn't change Ashdod much, QM did not want to do work reserved for devs.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Yeah that's exactly the point of the game, you don't know who plays the nation you're attacking.
That also means there will be no trading of items since it would reveal your identity so I advice you to design your pretenders carefully.
There will also be no," Hey let's all kill Ulm, he's got the forge" posts.
When somebody gets killed, than his identity may be reviled, but not the attackers.

When designing pretenders use random names.

By no means can anyone suggest that he is in war with eg. Ermor, because it could potentially lead to ganging up on that player, use spies to follow up on that stuff.

Also very important, if you need a temp/perm sub, don't post yourself but PM either WingedDog, or me. Still haven't worked out the admin duty but I will soon.

We will also be using CBM 1.5 now.

So far it looks like we've got 10 players.

And one last thing, I would like to hear your opinions on having score graphs either on or off in this game.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I say score graphs on.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Well, if you guys will have me I'd like to try. And graphs off will make for an even more anonymous experience.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I say on

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Count me in as well please.

Close to my limit now on games, but find that sorting out diplomacy usually takes longer than sorting out moves, so I'm well up for a no chat, no trading, no coordinated attacks, just good old fashioned everyone for themselves type of game. No diplomacy games are the way forward IMO.

Also one suggestion, you might want to disable re-naming, since it could help give away a players identities due to many players liking to rename their commanders after the random picks they get. Since it's then feasible for someone to start making a list (from the various games they might be in) of who renames their commanders like this and who doesn't. Think as many measures as possible should be taken to keep identities a secret.

Final point, you might want to mention something about what the penalties are if someone does communicate during the game. Will they be warned, instantly turned AI etc. While I'd like to believe that everyone will stick to the spirit of the game, it would be useful for clarity sakes to state the rules clearly before hand in case anyone is tempted.....

"Oh sorry, I forgot there wasn't any diplomacy in this game. It won't happen again honest. And it's no big deal since I only needed to do it once so that I could arrange for everyone to attack the player who just attacked me"

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I'll play, I've got 2 on the go and room for one more.

I'd also like to clarify diplomacy: this must mean no trading, alliances, NAPs and other agreements, but are you allowed simple messages of intent in-game like "I don't plan on attacking you", or "Prepare to die, heretic scum!"?

I always prefer graphs on, mostly actually from a roleplay-style view that I think the world would have nations with embassies, merchants, and travellers who would have basic information about other lands which would let rulers know that sort of general information about others.

I'll play anything given randomly. It's half the fun.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I would like to play. I'm in support of fully random nations (no trading etc), no mod nations, CBM 1.5, and graphs on.

As for the victory condition, with this many players and still more signing up, seems the easiest would be a certain percentage of capitals.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Agema:

No in-game messages at all. No trading. Not sending of anything if you get defeated. No telling anyone in the game what nation you have. It's like SP, but with humans, not AIs :)

And I agree with TheDemon - VPs at capitals, preferably around 35-40% to win, depends on number of players [if it's big, 30% may be enough].

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I'm indifferent to graphs.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I'd like in please. Graphs on, CBM, the rest as it comes.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Yeah, I forgot about renaming. We'll have it on off as to protect players from themselves.

And I have been thinking about the penalties for breaking communication, just not sure how to go with it.
I too hope that everybody will play in the spirit of the game but in case they "accidentally forget",
at the very least I think a permanent sub should be found, making them AI could cause even more unstability to the game.
So, IMO, kicked out or AI.

Agema, no communication of any kind. You are free to reveal you identity only once you're dead, but only your own, and there will be no posts like,"Oh damn Pangaea killed me".
Everybody is free to comment on stuff like indie strength, and other harmless stuff like that as long as it doesn't jeopardize you or another player.

So, victory conditions, percentage of capitals, I agree with this. We will have to sort this out later, once we see how many players we've got.

Now, nation selection. This is a you choose type of game, so what kind of system would you prefer?
Do you want a standard, random nations all the way, meaning no trading or anything of that kind,
or,
Do we steal Baalzes idea from Fearun, you state eg. two nation you don't want to play. Or maybe someone has an even better idea?

There also seem to be no objections to this being a MA game, so I recon that is settled.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Stating some nations you don't want sounds good.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I reckon pure random

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Changed my mind to now preferring pure random nations. IMO if you can't play the hand you're dealt, then maybe your skills are not as high as what you thought they were. Anyone can be a good player if they constantly play the same nation until they perfect a strategy for it, and making players play new nations tests out their versatility.

I do have my usual reservations about marking capitals with a bull's-eye VP though. Maybe just have the usual X number of capitals, with all victory claims going to the non playing admin for checking.

Edit: I did originally say the Legends of Faerun system for nation selection was fine, but then I read hEad's post below and realised it's correct that stating nations you don't want to play partly gives away your identity. So my vote is now for pure random.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I agree here; tis the only truly anonymous means of getting into the game. We can’t trade, because that would give away who we are, and by selecting some nations not to have, we know that citizen x is definitely not selection y...

Go random and let the dice decide!

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Hmm... right. Total random may be best for that game.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

So far we have total random nation asigment.
I've been thinking of a way of entering this game myself by spiting the admin work with WingedDog, who has been so kind to help, but I think that would complicate things way more, so I'll stay out of this game.

But one of you better make a no diplomacy, random nation game some time if the future, or else!!!:)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Executor
I se no reason for you to not participate in the game.
That's my plan:
1) I assign the nations using my random numbres generator utility to the players I see on the list in the 1st post.
2) I PM each player what nation does he get.
3) When we know how many people will be playing the game - I'll put fixed staring locations on the map.

Everithing else about co-admining via PM.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I volunteer to start one up just for you Executor to say thanks for admining this one for everyone else :) Give me a nudge toward the weekend in case I forget (my memory is generally ok, so I should remember).

I would start it now, but there seems to be quite a few games looking for players at the moment, so wouldn't want to get lost in the crowd.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

That might just work.
I'll have to think about it just a bit, but perhaps I will play here myself, but only if nobody objects.
I say we wait for CBM 1.5 and than close the game.

It looks like we'll have somewhere around 15 or so players so maybe we could use Orania map, or Glory of the Gods?

Calahan, thanks for offering to organize another game, but please don't! Or I won't resist joining it.:o

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

What a deed WingedDog - legend! :)

Orania sounds good, its a nice map.

If we are going to wait for the new CBM, would it be possible to get the nations out ASAP, so we can spend a few days scheming in the interim?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

yeah, found it not long after i posted. You have to admire efficiency!

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

I'll start assigning the nations as soon as I get some information from Executor. I need to know the quantity of water nations and if pick is irreversable.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

Can I still join or are all spaces taken already?