Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Given the supreme support the dev's give this game, one could easily say that it gets them regularly. But what about if there was a paid for expansion pack?

I know it's abit like wondering what you would do if you happened into a considerable sum of cash, but what are some of the things people would want in an expansion, especially players who have been with the game from its earliest days, In what way could the game be made better?

Or better yet, given its evolution, where could the game go? What could it become? What type of reasonable changes could be introduced to enhance Dom3 up a couple of notches?

Remember, the limitation is it’s an expansion, not a completely new rewrite.

And of course, who would part with the $'s for a copy? What type of advanced sales are we looking at here? Could an expansion pack be a realistic prospect for the developers considering the shot of cold cash on standby, ready to support the endeavour? You know uncertain economic times, the need to seriously examine all potential income streams; wife wants a new diamond, all the usual and numerous expenses...

Is this remotely feasible?

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

I believe it is not feasible, because:

a) The devs have repeatedly expressed their lack of interest in money.

b) The numerous patches have already easily constituted an expansion pack's worth. If the devs feel the enthusiasm to add more they seem likely to just do so for free.

c) They are currently working on a different (mysterious) game, apparently.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

well there you go then... but for the sake of indulgence, where could a game like Dom3 be taken too? I play it and think, apart from an UI update, how could it possibly be improved?

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Has KO ever said that it's a game? IIRC he's only ever mentioned Illwinter's current "project". For all I know it could be a rocket-powered go-cart.

-Max

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

I think by definition you're pretty much talking about a Dom4, since what we get from patches already is about as much as you could reasonably expect from an expansion pack. (Improved site searching algorithms, bigger unit limits, new nations, new spells.)

Search for one of the Dom4 wishlist threads and do some thread necromancy.

-Max

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

That would be more awesome than mere words could ever describe.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Do you think they'll do digital downloads for the go-cart?

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

It's running into engine architecture limitations in nearly every single category of features, so the only thing that could substantially change things and add significantly more stuff is rewriting the whole thing from the ground up.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

me: I heard they were working on an MMORPG

someone else in the crowd: and it's 20 feet tall!!

yet another person: with multiple heads!!!

an old scruffy sailor looking guy: turn a man to stone it will.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

And nothing deserves it more I reckon. Hopefully one day, there will be a window of enthusiasm for the project...

However, if they were to get into the business of say, skateboard sized remote controlled rocket boats fitted with two belt fed paint ball guns - products designed to ably clear beaches of unwanter surfers or other annoying recreational water enthusiasts, i just may be able to wait for it myself! :up:

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Some people think it's so easy. Dominions has a huge code. And really complicated. And there are many people that know the game better than devs.

Saying "write code from scratch" is easy. But doing so would take tremendous amount of work. I don't think that Johann is able to do it [as it'd have to be in newer language, which more sophisticated and time-taking solutions to handle all that we'd want]. And chance that they will hire someone to just do that is slim. It would be at least one year of coding, let's say 2-3k$ per month. Add new graphics on top of that [you wouldn't want sprites anymore, right?]. With the amount of units we have, let's say we can maybe get a good deal and get it done for just $500k. Or try some worse 2d quality, to get it to $100k. You'd also want to hire a guy to make AI, another $10k here. They probably get no more than 1/3rd of money from that $50 it is selling for. So it makes for minimum 50k copies sold to break even.

[those were just estimates, I may be totally off with those numbers, just wanted to say smth to those that think it's easy and cheap]

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

$100k -$500k for graphics and $10k for the AI coding? I wouldn't want to play that game, and I guess most others here wouldn't either. :)

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Am I the only person who doesn't want to see improved graphics in any Dom3 follow-up? Personally think that what we have now are perfectly fine and fully functional.

If you want pretty graphics, join the horde of mindless sheep out there and play MMO's, FPS's etc. All of which are highly original, unique, and immensely challenging :re:

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

prettier graphics = higher reqs = no longer a game I can keep running alt-tabbed between other tasks (say, class).

More features and better AI would be nice, though

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

is it because that's a lot, and thus no one here would want to play such a mainstream-style game, or because that's not very much at all, and no one here would want to play such a poor quality game?

sorry for my naivety, but I really have no metric here...

I think that I play games like Dwarf Fortress more than most other games, and it, in terms of man-hours, is probably under 100k. (assuming 55k a year per person for full-time. I think there's two guys working on it for a few years, and they by no means do it full-time).

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

I'd call it rather low budget :) You'd have to spend at least $5-10 million for proper 3d graphics engine.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

I know the difference between saying something and doing something quite well. I'm perfectly aware that it would be a tremendous task and far from easy. I just happen to have a recollection that it was the devs themselves who said it would need to be redone from scratch if a Dom4 were to be made. Could be I remember wrong, though.

But it is a fact that the engine limits are squeezing everything these days and some of them can't be expanded without breaking a lot of hard (or impossible) to fix things. That was what JK said when I asked about one of the more important ones.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Edi:

My post was not aimed at you :) Mostly also to all threads like that appearing from time to time. I really hope that dom4 gets created though.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Well to me a Dom3 Expansion Pack is:
Streamers and Standards mod
Worthy Heroes mod
Mytheology mod
Magic Site mod
SingleAge mod
and running each map thru the SemiRandom program before playing it.

I understand there is also a mod to add a ton of new spells to the game but I havent tried that yet. There is also a mod that put something like 12 new nations into the extended slots in one move with all conflicts ironed out.

Those are mods that extend the game. Took what was in it and added lots more.

Gandalf Parker
--
To some people, unlimited options seems to them to be zero options.
Without a menu of choices, they are lost.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

@Calahan : No you are not the only one who don't want an impove in graphic display :

More quality would say less editable : It's easy to edit a 64x64 sprite (well easy do edit, I didn't say easy to do something artistic). It's far more difficult and time consuming to create let's say a 3d shape with texture...

Such a Dom4 would loose probably 80% or more of his units, maybe more....

So keep the 2d sprites ! Well I know... why speaking about a problem that isn't real as there will be NO Dom4...probably...

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

I'd love to see an expansion with AI scripting able to be modified. That is, having players able to better define the order of spells that the AI uses, how it places its units, what units it recruits, and when it sends them to attack you, to make single player a little more challenging.

I'm sure someone posted it already, but more intricate scripting for commanders would also be nice.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Exactly right! The game as is stands is with out peer and I can appreciate that at this point of its development it has given all to most of what it has got, but the question is, what possibly extra could be added to the game - either as a metaphoric expansion or an actual sequal?

What more could dominions become? More of the same or could additional concepts or factors to the game with out it becoming something else? As it it, can Dominions 3 be topped? Can the strategy (again not emphasising UI or other improvements expected of a new engine)

For those who know, what was Dom 1 like and how has it changed over the series? I would have loved to player earlier versions to see how far it has travelled.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Well I'd assume that Dominions originally spawned from Conquest of Elysium II, which you can get for free now. It's quite similar to Dominions in what you're expected to achieve, and I think I even saw some of the same sprites still being used. Worth playing at least once just for kicks.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Well, what I would change:

Expand the scripting posibilities but at least add a keep casting that specific spell (at that kind of target). The 5 slots are easily filled by buffs, which doesn't allow effective spell combinations with spells the AI doesn't use correctly.

Research is generated by labs (but must still be paid for on a point for point basis, but the number of labs determines the max possible). Different nations get different research per lab/gold ratio, drain affects it on a percent base. Mages are only recruited for combat/rituals/forging and can be disbanded.

Labs get a limited amount slots in that gem/research producing items must be placed in to work. Initial Number of slots is depending on nation or god and can be expanded a couple of times for an increasingly larger price.

A player gets more control over random paths depending on how "institutionalized" magic is for the nation/mage.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Or $0 for id Tech 3. Even runs on linux! Perfect for the Dom 4 (Pretenders Gone Wild) FPS.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Being able to modify AI and spell AI (banning certain spells, changing their weighting etc) is basically all I'd want from Illwinter and of course I'd pay for it.

But I don't think they need to do anything to expand it. It's a great game I'll still be playing in 10 years time.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Here's a high compliment for Dom3: since installing Dom3 on my computer, I don't think I've played a single game of Master of Magic to completion. No other game has ever been able to claim that distinction for so long[1]. It's a testament to the richness of Dom3.

-Max

[1] I reserve the right to play more MoM in the future of course, but Dom3 still holds the duration record.

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

I'd likely be playing master of magic still if I managed to run it reliably. But dosBox aint reliable. Starts lagging bad after a while.

As for simmilar games, I think that Dom3 might be the closest to the experience.

(strictly speaking, Age of Wonder Shadow Magic is almost a carbon copy of MoM with better graphics, but Dom3 is better in some regards, as well as less resource intensive. When turns start taking long in Dominions I simply alt tab and do something else. Heck, it´s resource-light enough to run two games at the same time and alternate)

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

I still prefer MoM - but Dominions has real people! So I haven't played MoM in years - the graphics are dated. But it still holds near and dear to my heart...

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

Strictly speaking, the graphics of Dominions 3 are not top notch either (though certainly more carefully crafted than the graphics in MoM). What I like of these games is the sheer ammount of things you can do.

One more thing: I sorely miss the spell Chaos Channels. In fact, more unit modding spells in general would be nice

Re: Dom3: Expansion Pack
 

hmm...

I'm thinking some sort of admixture of Dominions and Sacrifice... that would be a beautiful thing.