Sentient Machines - [Game on]
 

Age: Single
Players: 10
Map: Random Map: Corruption
Map Download link: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...37&postcount=1
Mods: Custom CBM 1.5, Single-age-mod. See the attachment in this post to download.
Settings: Renaming on, otherwise normal for MA.
Victory: Surrender of other players.
Other Rules: Diplomacy is normal - breaking NAPs is frowned upon but not banned; trades are to be honoured. All pretender designs are done by an impossible AI.
Hosting:

Turns -- Hosting Scheducle
0-10 -- 24h quickhost
11-20 -- 30h quickhost
20-30 -- 36h quickhost
30-50 -- 48h quickhost
50+ -- 60h quickhost

Players:

EA Niefelheim - Falkor
EA Hinnom - Burnsaber
EA Sauromatia - Baalz
EA Fomoria - Fakeymcfake
EA Vanheim - Zlefin
EA Arco - Ferrosol
MA Ulm - Unoptimized
MA Jotunheim - Alpine Joe
LA T'ien C'hi - Atul
LA Utgard - Dragar

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. X? Spots left
 

This sounds cool.
Reserve me a spot. I don't know if I can play though, if I can't I'd volunteer to make the pretenders.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting
 

I will join as jotunheim. How exactly are we going to handle the process of pretender submission?

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting
 

Nation?

Well, I present you two choices. Then I will make a mod that actually allows everyone you to buy that "AI made beast" within normal point limits and everyone will then send their desings as normal.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. X? Spots left
 

EA Agartha, interested to see what will come of this one.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. X? Spots left
 

Sounds fun, I'll play Sauromatia.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 8 spots left
 

I pondered on the details a bit.

Settings will be default for MA. CBM will be included, as will Streamers & standards to avoid flag confusion.

Due to intrest in the game, I've decided to cap the number of players at 12. Generating pretenders for any larger amount will be a quite pain in the ***.

Since the game will be most likely accompanied by a custom mod, which gives new magic to pretenders (to make it possible to actually build the AI design with humnn points). I'll release the changes at the start of the game, since some them might become potential wish targets. This might give some hints about what kind of monsters are out there, but not reveal too much.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 8 spots left
 

Sounds like a crazy game, but sadly my plate is too full to jump onboard right now :(

But I will offer to be the non-playing admin/pretender dishing out guy, so that Burnsaber and Illuminated One can both play in this game if they wish :)

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 8 spots left
 

Thanks, you are awesome. I singed up as Shinyama

I'll be making a mod to make the viewing the AI designs easy. I'll send it to you once it complete.

The mod will appoint one super nation with uber-modded units and national eyes of god with 0 gem cost, to be played by you. The AI nations will have empty recruitment rosters and with indy str 9, will be stuck at their capital. Once all pretenders have broken free, you just teleport against them to see their desings (the amount of candels at the cap will also tell how much dom strenght they took). This will allow you to easily see the AI designs to be played by us.

After that, you just whip up a quick mod which gives some more magic to pretenders where necessary, so that we can actually manually make the designs then.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 8 spots left
 

Will PM you my email to send your mod to, since I don't think you can send attachments using the forum PM's (well at least I couldn't see how)

Have never tried modding Dominions, or even looked to do so, so may need a few pointers. Have modded a few games in the past that use XML (Civ IV mainly). So if it's anything like that I think I should be able to manage it.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 7 spots left
 

This sounds amazing. I'll take a stab at MA Ulm :)

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 7 spots left
 

Actually, can I change my nation to EA Formoria?

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 7 spots left
 

I'll probably let recruitment be open until I make the AI design viewing mod this weekend. Sunday is a good deadline.

So join up people while you still can. Here are some ideas for nations.

MA Pythium -> Good troops & amazing mages & not too dependent on a bless. This nation will be powerful, even with a not-too-great pretender build.

EA Niefelheim -> Even if your bless sucks, you can still utilize your giant Skinshifters, which are a great unit. And Jarls are always good.

EA C'its -> Solid military and mages. It's pretty hard to go woring with this.

Any underwater nation -> Just think about it.


Oooh. Risky. I like it. You're in.


I see no reason why you couldn't. I also took the opportunity to change my choice. Shinyama will just get rushed unless I luck out to a awake pretender. Hinnom is much more stable and has great magic diversity.

Don't worry, the mod won't be too complicated. I'll make you a template mod where you just add values to make it even easier.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 6 spots left
 

Utgard please

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 5 spots left
 

Considering about changing your nation choice. I think I should limit it somehow so that there won't too much stragedizing with nation choices. After this post, all players are allowed exactly one change in nation selection.

I took a look at more nations, and here are some more ideas.

MA Ermor - who cares about your pretender? You can reanimate anyway.

LA Pythium - With that path diversity, your pretender really won't matter. Great military will also help.

LA Jomon - You have absolutely fantastic magic diversity and your non-shield troops will be much better against MA independents, since crossbows will be more rare. If you luck out to a obscene bless, you have solid & cheap sacred troops to utilize it.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 7 spots left
 

That would be great Burnsaber. Was going to ask you to do this for me, as I knew in theory it should be possible, but didn't know if theory and reality ageed on this issue or not :)

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 5 spots left
 

Sounds interesting, i'll join as EA Ermor

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

Okay I did bit of testing with my AI Viewing mod. Here are results from the first test game. Remember that you will get two choices, thought.

There also seem to be some builds with dom str below 4. I suggest that in those cases the dominion is just raised to 4, because it would just plain out unplayable.

It also might be possible to make a unit which would completely prevent bad event in the first year, since it's quite possible that someone is going to end up with high turmoil & high misfortune rating. Getting eliminated before turn 5 isn't fun and fun is the point of this game. It would die at late winter, due to having 1 hp and old age over by 10000 years.

LA Utgård
Awake Master Druid F5A4E6S6D2N4
Dom7, Order3, Sloth2, Cold3, Death3, Misfortune3, Magic3

EA Sauromatia
Dormant Great Sage F9A6W3S6D4N5 (nice bless!)
Dom2?, Turmoil2, Sloth1, Cold1, Growth2, Luck1, Drain3

EA Hinnom
Dormant Great Sage F9A6E6B4 (nice bless!)
Dom 7, Sloth2, Heat3, Growth2, Misfortune2, Drain2

MA Jotunheim
Dormant Son of Niefel A4W6D5B5
Dom 7, Turmoil 1, Productivity3, Cold2, Growth3, Luck1, Magic3

MA Ulm
Awake Great Sage F5A5W3S5D2
Dom7, Turmoil3, Sloth2, Heat2, Growth3, Luck1, Drain2

EA Ermor
Awake Manticore E1D9N9
Dom5, Order1, Sloth3, Heat2, Death1, Drain3

.....

I know.

May god help us all.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

Heh, does the AI take into account preferred temp scales? I notice it gave Hinnom heat and Jotunheim cold.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

I think it does. Hinnom prefers Heat2 and Jotunheim cold2.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

Hmmmm, MA Ulm at sloth 2 with a human pretender is pretty close to unplayable. If the second choice is also slothful I vote poor Unoptimized gets a re-roll.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

Ugh. I just noticed that my wording is pretty cryptic.

Those testing pretenders I made aren't part of the actual choices that will be presented. I was just testing my mod and tought that it would be nice to show what kind of beasts one should expect. I think that the actual choice should be presented by PM so that the pretenders would be secret. They could be made public if the players wish that. Opinions?

One should consider them as a mental exercise. The build for Sauromatia is.. intresting at least. The E1D9N9 awake Manticore is also pretty insane. Stone Skin + Personal Regeneration = SC?

I'll probably give Calahan instructions to generate a third option if the first two are completely unplayable.

A general question. I was considering about replacing all starting scouts with a special weak unit with preventbadevents 100 with mapmove 6. On turn 6, all players will send this units to die at the closest independent province. This should prevent any insta-kills by unfortunate events in the first turns. Would this be considered okay?

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

Sounds good to me.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

Aw, thanks guys. The scout thing is actually a pretty good idea, as I don't think any of us players are as insanely suicidal as the AI. I for one would happily kill that poor scout.

Oh man though, awake sages. One of my more favorite pretenders these days to be honest.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

MA Tien Chi

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

presumably we won't be publicising the pretenders? If both choices are really unplayable we should leave it to calahan as admin to offer a 3rd if he judges that as reasonable

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

Oh, sorry, I forgot to say that i am a newbie, and if this game is not newb-friendly, then you can exclude me

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

LA TC, if I may.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Recruiting. 4 spots left
 

Well, I'll leave the decision to you. This is not a regular game by any means and there are numereous skilled players in the game. Do you feel like you're out of your league? If you don't want to play, just say so.

This game will mostly be about dealing with your scales and taking out the maximum performance out from your monstereous pretender. I really don't think that we will be seeing any optimal expansion rates in this game. If you're worried about getting eliminated early, you could take an underwater nation.

To make it official, here are statements:

1) Pretender choices will secret. Calahan will PM them to you once he has rolled them up. However, we will be using a custom mod (changing pretender choices, so that we can buy that E1N9D9 awake manticore). The changes that custom mod makes will be public. Everyone will know that now manticore has E1N3D3 as base, so there are hints about what kind of monsters are out there.

2) Calahan is free to use his common sense. If both choices are completely unplayable, he can use his jurisdiction to roll up a third one.

3) All players will start with a 1hp weak unit with 100% prevent bad events with flying and ridicilious mapmove. On turn 8, all players must send this unit to die at the nearest hostile province (I'll send an in-game message to remind everyone at turn 7). This will prevent any early drop-outs due to serious misfortune events from hideous scales.

4) Recruitment will be open until sunday to 14:00 llamaserver time. This will also be a deadline to any nation changes, since I need to know what nations are playing for the AI Design viewing mod. Which I'll then send to Calahan.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Still recruting. Join before Sunday!
 

I'd like to give Nifelheim a try. Sign me in, please.

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Still recruting. Join before Sunday!
 

Well, I think i'm not so experienced. Sign me out, please

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Still recruting. Join before Sunday!
 

i do like wacky games.
I'm in.
For nation: uh, random. yes, random nation will do fine.
Zlefin :)

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Still recruting. Join before Sunday!
 

what the hell, In as EA arcosphale

Re: Sentient Machines - Crazy pretenders game. Still recruting. Join before Sunday!
 

Since I need to know the nation beforehand for the mod, I randomized it using dom3 (with single-era mod active).

You are EA Vanheim

Re: Sentient Machines - One spot still open. Join before Sunday!
 

only as long as a 12th doesn't come in wanting van :)

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

Ok, I have sent Calahan his instructions on how to generate the AI pretenders. He will contact each player with the pretender options when he has the time for the generation. It's not as easy as it sounds, so let's give him time to work his magic, okay folks?

To pass the time, we can hit the issue of the map.

I have 3 options ready, each one has its pros and cons. Let the bickering begin! You can see details of the map in the llamaserver map browser
http://www.llamaserver.net/mapModBrowser.cgi

1) Shahrivar. About 15,27 land provinces per player and 12 water. Absolutely beautiful map, but it has some pre-placed magic sites. Most of them are okay, but there are some school bonus sites and one site with strong indy mages. I could replace these sites with something more reasonable. It's not wraparound, thought.

2) Wraith Bunny. About 14,95 land provinces per player. Simple map with quite balanced outlay, but it's not wraparound and lacks "oomph"

3) Random Wraparound: Small_001. - Only wraparound on our size. Seems balanced enough, but is ugly as hell.

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

Vote for Wraithbunny

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

I vote wraith bunny

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

I don't like wraithbunny's clumped terrains, so I guess my vote goes to Shahrivar.

Though just looked at the images, so if there's some hidden imbalance I'm easily convinced to change the vote.

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

I am in general indifferent, but if using shavrivar I vote to randomise the pre-placed sites

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

I like that Small_001, but will be happy with Shahrivar too. With or without preplaced sites.

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

I'm going with Shah, sorry but I like pretty maps even if they're unbalanced.

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

Well, like I said, I'd remove the powerful sites. Most of them would then just give 1-2gems, useful for diversification, since they're prediscovered.

But anyways, here is the current vote total

Wraith Bunny: 2 (Ferrosol, Alpine Joe)
Shahrivar: 3 (Burnsaber, atul?, Fakeymcfake)
Small_001: 1 (Falkor)

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

Hey folks, Burnsaber has sent me the mod and my instructions (thanks for the walkthrough Burnsaber :)), been too busy today though to even take a glance at it all unfortunately, but hope to have some time within the next 48hrs to get everything sorted.

Be in touch with you all soon with your Pretender choices, and I'll have a think about how mean I feel like being with regards a re-roll for any particularly nasty pairs that crop up :D

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

Sorry, I have to drop out.

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

Don't sweat over it. 10 players is still more than enough. And hey, who knows, this AI pretender thing might catch on.

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

But now that we have 10 players the map thing just became a lot more complicated. Wasn't Fomoria a coast nation?

As much as I love Shahrivar, 16,8 land provinces per player is too much, considering that no-one will likely have exceptional expansion rates. My main idea is to allow dormant pretenders to break free before there are enemies at the gate. We could take smaller map (12-13 provs per player) and ramp up the independent strenght to 6 or 7.

But now, I'm quite intriqued by the Random map: Corruption.

14,8 land provinces per player and the lakes are kinda all over the place, creating chokepoints. It also somewhat diminishes Fomoria's "only amphibian narion"-vantage.

Or should we go with shahrivar anyway? Perhaps with lowered indy str?

Let's try to decide on a map before the pretender selection comes, since that can understandably affect our voting. I'm hearing you players out because I want to be fair. If there isn't a conculsion by wednesday, I'll probably move from democracy to dictatorship and decide on something.

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

And lakes all over the place give a nice boost to two sailing nations. You'll never get it "just right"... ;p

Nothing bad in Corruption either, though if it's done with random map generator I'd assume there are only those Border Mountains around. Well, everything looks good as long as it isn't Eyesore and I'm not weeping for one terrain. I'd rather switch maps than play around with indy strength.

Just remember democracy, while it has its advantages, is by no means efficient way to decide things. ;)

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

I played an MP game with Corruption a while back, was ok. And agreed, thread starter can just decide if we all have different viewpoints

Re: Sentient Machines - Closed. [Creating Pretenders]
 

Corruption map looks very nice. I like it.