Summons
 

Just looking for opinions here, what are the best non-unique summons besides Tartarians?

I'm thinking mostly of SC summons, but anything thats really useful I'd like to hear about, especially things that open up new magic paths or good units that are low-gem cost.

Re: Summons
 

Abominations are the best unit in a melee for the cost, but they're hard to get around, and need mage support for a protection boost if you'll be fighting chaff with a lot of attacks, but they do great against thugs/SCs.

Seraphs are excellent defensive SCs, but suffer from a crippling vulnerability to magic duel while attacking.

Bane Lords are always a cost-efficient staple. There's not all that much variety late game though, mostly tarts/aboms with a smattering of angels.

Re: Summons
 

Useful summons I'm just pulling off the top of my head:

Wraith Lords, Spectres, Elemental Royalty, Demon Lords, Heliophagi, other Blood Summons, maybe Golems...stuff.

Re: Summons
 

If you are wishing, Chayots are great.

They have 4 forms, all with full slots, and if one gets magic duelled in S form (or otherwise killed), it just switches to the next shape. They are also sacred, nice if you have an N/E bless. They've got good MR, resist almost everything, have built-in Awe and Fire Shield, and fly map-move 6.

Re: Summons
 

I'd generally take a Seraph over a Chayot if I was wishing though.

Tolkien's mention of golems is a good one though, they're the best raider available. Demon knights with E buffs are also an excellent unit. Storm demons can be pretty brutal if you don't otherwise have much A access and your opponent isn't handing out SR.

Re: Summons
 

Personally, I love blood summons. They're absolutely terrific for diversification.

Re: Summons
 

I've seen spectres used with quite a good result. They can become decent stealthy raiders, some of them are also stealthy astral mages to feeblemind these clever mind-hunters, and they can help you diversify into earth-water-astral.
Astral monkey summons are just great. Too bad they come with monkey troops and PD. :)
Demiliches are quite useful.
Sea Kings are decent mid-game SCs. Their retinue has HUGE upkeep though... May be useful too, for breaking castle walls. Also, they are poison-immune, regenerating and fat, so if you summon two or three sea troll kings, you can use sea troll army with earthquake (rain of stones) and/or foul vapors caster.
Siege golems - for sieging. :)

Re: Summons
 

I wonder what is the problem with vine kings ? As I don't play MP, I don't know why no one likes them, they've been usefull to me in SP. Well, more than a pack of wolves.

Re: Summons
 

Its not like vine kings are bad... its just that nature gems are so good, and there's never enough of them.

Re: Summons
 

Oh, I was wondering wether they had some kind of inner fault... Now it's all clear thanks.

Re: Summons
 

Well, they have one flaw. They are headless, yet they have a 'head' hit location. :)
Thus they cant wear helmets, but they are still vulnerable to the hits to their unprotected head they dont have. :)

Re: Summons
 

Good catch ! hadn't summoned one in quite some time...

Re: Summons
 

I love Iron Dragons. MR is low-ish, but they're pretty cheap and make good additions to a flying SC without taking up any slots. I also love siege golems.

As thug chassises, I like Wraith Lords because you can use them almost naked (Pendant of Luck, winged boots optional), which synergizes with Immortality.

For cost-efficiency, I *love* Hashmalim for Ashdod. I also like the Ditanu you get from Banquet For the Dead--they're not as mobile as Iron Dragons, but they're pretty nice.

If you have a high-death caster, ghosts are really cheap and cost-effective. Never underestimate the power of 30 ethereal life-drainers, all with Fear +0.

As far as temporary summons go, Ghost Riders gets marks for the ability to show up anywhere, during the magic phase. Earth Attack is also great.

For some reason, I also like Legion of Wights even though wights are only moderately cost-effective and die in droves to Banish spam. Maybe I just like having high-HP, high-Prot infantry with 0 enc as blockers for my mages.

-Max

Re: Summons
 

Maybe that represent stabbing down the neck of the armor?

-Max

Re: Summons
 

The Ivy King has 0 encumbrance so you can just equip it with marble armor to give the head some protection.

Re: Summons
 

On reflection:

You could also give it Bracers of Protection, which cover the headslot. Admittedly 2 Prot isn't much, but with an E9 blessing that's Prot 6, which approximately halves the damage you take against spears and such. Add Legions of Steel and your Head prot is now 9.

Marble Armor is probably a better bet, I just wanted to point out that you can get head armor without a helmet.

-Max

Re: Summons
 

one more question: a lot of people mentioned blood summons. are there any good non-unique ones? there's only 4? demon lords, 9? heliophagi, and a dozen or so frost fiends right? what other summons are there that are good, and non-unique?

Re: Summons
 

Blood summons are awesome, generally. Demon Lords, Heliophagi, Frost Devils, Fire Devils, Father Illearth: all great SC chassis and magic diversification. Some of the better non-unique summons: Demon Knights, Storm Demons (if they don't have shock immunity), vampires, and Dark Vines (haven't used them much). I honestly can't say for Devils, Ice Fiends, and Fiends of Darkness (never used any of them much. Infernal Crusade is just too good to pass up). Bone Fiends are alright.

You could also come up with a strategy with the Succubus. Seducing enemy mages can make for getting into new magics.

Re: Summons
 

I do think the SC Chassis are all uniques. At least for the general blood summons. Some of the blood nations have very nice national blood summons. I'm looking at you Mictlan and Lanka.

Re: Summons
 

Indeed they do. Generally speaking, assuming you aren't playing a blood nation: those are the top choices.

Re: Summons
 

You get a non-unique Devil commander out of Horde from Hell. It's pretty pricey at 44 slaves, but his stats aren't totally terrible.

Succubi are non-unique, but lack a body slot. Not that they don't have a body, it's just well, wearing armor would be such a waste, right? At 66 slaves, no magic paths, and pretty weak combat stats, it's something you're unlikely to summon for anything except seduction/assassination.

Outside blood, one guy that hasn't been mentioned yet is the lowly Black Servant. At 5D in CBM, he's got 0-enc and is ethereal and stealthy. So you can slap some cheap armor on him and a snake bladder stick or frost brand or a horror helm, and he's a pretty good raider against many nations.

Re: Summons
 

I like Ice devils, really nasty bastards in cold dominion, way better than arch devils!
As for national thugs/SC, Mictlans chivateto ( or something like that) is the best.

Re: Summons
 

Black servant is also good without a weapon because his natural attack is life drain. Black servant with a vine shield works well.

Re: Summons
 

No head slot - no head that could be hit (at least for some monsters).
Start a game as EA Agartha, and give a black steel plate to a Trog Lord. Total protection will be the same as body prot regardless of the lack of helmet.

Re: Summons
 

Has CBM made certain summons a lot better now? I can think of drakes/wyverns + master. Perhaps that upgraded treelord as well?

Re: Summons
 

Ice devils suck. I won't use one again.

Re: Summons
 

in what sense?

Re: Summons
 

Mostly just being close in price and research to the much-superior arch devils. Suck is a bit strong, but they're certainly fairly lackluster.

Re: Summons
 

I like leviathans a lot, and CBM behemoths.

Re: Summons
 

I don't think I saw anyone mention Gargoyles. They have some weaknesses for sure (MR), but being high protection, mindless flyers they can be one of the best PD raiders in the game just with minimal equipment - try dual wielding a frost brand and snake bladder stick. There is something brutally elegant about how they can fly up and beat the crap out of almost anything that sits there buffing itself. No micro - just set orders to Attack Rear. In CB they are only level 5 enchantment and 10 earth gems - I tend to have plenty of E in the late game. You do need to GoR them which is where the cost effectiveness breaks down a bit but against a non-astral nations they can be fun and powerful. Vs. astral, be careful since their base MR is too low and needs lots of boosters just to have a chance.

Re: Summons
 

Sort-of related to one of my complaints... how vine ogres are mindless, yet can receive the affliction feebleminded. It's the same as a naturally blind unit losing an eye and still suffering the penalty.