Amazingly hard
 

Anybody else had real problems playing Russia mid 41 it is incredibly difficult in my view with a tank formation. There is the problem of low morale & experience but really its the speed of the tanks that cripples you as end up pretty much following doctrine heading out with a plan & being stuck with it.
Playing with mixed Companys of T-26s & T-28s but due to the speed (5 hexes tops) no matter how far out I detect incoming German forces getting in position to meet them is more luck than judgement. Outflanking is neigh on impossible bringing your superior numbers to bear is difficult enough & then theres the old 5cms to worry about.
Turns out its not the extra punch of the T-34s I am missing but there ability to get in a position to be useful. The fact large parts of Russia are somewhat lacking in scenery only compounds the problem of trying to get in position for an effective shot while the Panzers mill ominously around you. And just to make matters worse the troops go handgrenade vs tank means run like hell still they might just get his attention for a moment.
Very much a case of trying to hang in there till the factorys get the T-34s rolling out but I fear it may be to late.

Re: Amazingly hard
 

I guess that is why the Soviets kept giving ground instead of fighting until Stalingrad and the hordes of T34s could be fielded.
The only way I can deal with them is to use scouts to find them and then set up ambushes the AI tends to walk right into them if done right. But those 50's and even the 37's go right through the armor of the T-26s and T28s (not to mention the short 75s)

Re: Amazingly hard
 

Yep the AI might but a human not so much he to has scouts & even guys on foot can nearly keep up. Makes you realise why the modern mechanised force was born superior numbers means little if the enemy can pick them off piecemeal.

Re: Amazingly hard
 

IIRC the little T-26 was intended primarily as an infantry support tank, so perhaps what you need for the type of operations you describe is something from the BT-series instead?

cbo

Re: Amazingly hard
 

Quite possibly the speed would certainly help, bought T-26/28 as they are listed together in mixed tank batalion. Assumed sensible mix was 2 Co T-28 1 Co T-26 & possibly a platoon of KV. No real idea if thats correct or if BTs acted with. I would have thought used seperatly but just fudging it

Re: Amazingly hard
 

From Battlefield.ru:

Now I admit one web reference is a bit lean but it being one of the few easily accessible Russian resources, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Use them to support your foot soldiers and use BTs or KV to kill the panzers - or AT guns...

Re: Amazingly hard
 

KV-1's, or especially, KV-1E's are pretty good against early German tanks, though expensive. By the time they are close enough for a 37mm or short 50 to threaten you, they are well inside the lethal zone of the F-32.

OTOH, the BT's are cheep, and bloody FAST.

Maybe the best road is the middle one, KV's as the hammer, BT's for the sickle...


Matt

Re: Amazingly hard
 

Cheers guys time for me to consult Mr Google I think for what is a sensible force.
Hey this time period everythings cheap:)

Re: Amazingly hard
 

One other tank to consider, though it has notable downsides: The T-18M. 45mm gun, CMG, 2 armor all around, it's not fast, but it sure is SLOW. ;) However, the 45mm sabot (which is 100% of the AP load :confused: ) is a good performer against early german armor, it's small enough (size 2, IIRC) that even infantry have problems spotting it if it sits still with guns off, and it's very cheap, you can give each infantry section it's own tank. I've laid some very effective ambushes with them, masking them with trees or terrain for 150-200m flank shots. The armor isn't any worse then a BT, but the speed (6) is horrible. The trick, I've found, is not to treat them as tanks, or even TD's, but as AT guns with a serious survival edge against infantry.


Matt

Re: Amazingly hard
 

Not to change topic, but I've found dug-in units a bit harder to dislodge than in SP2. They seem almost 'god-like' in their foxholes! I had to up my hitting to 110% and then after being pounded by artillery (3 direct hex hits), two tanks (supporting inf.) and two infantry was I able to suppress it! Seemed a bit nasty for every entrenched unit to have to do. Maybe this unit belongs in the other thread about 'extraordinary units'? :)

Re: Amazingly hard
 

That 100% sabot load is probably an error.

Unit 170 - the original T-18 - has a puny 37mm gun. One of those where sabot is used in order to restrict the AP range to reflect how feeble the gun was, AP penetration-wise.
The T18m - unit 177 - on the other hand, uses the standard Soviet 45mm which is not a feeble AP performer and hence doesn't use sabot to reflect restricted performance of the standard AP round. Instead, sabot values for the 45mm gun (weapon 18) reflect the actual sabot round which, to my knowledge, wasn't introduced until sometime in 1942.

Once this possible error is corrected, the T-18m may loose some of its charm as an SP AT gun ;)

Claus B

Re: Amazingly hard
 

If you are sure about that a post in TO&E section might be an idea.

Re: Amazingly hard
 

Nope thats normal they are dug in in this game we can cover that by email but hard blighters to hit & having something to hunker down in boosts there moral. Close range MGs or snipers are best against them, its hard to find them to.

Re: Amazingly hard
 

Yep. Sabot for that weapon should not be available in the time period that vehicle exists. That should be 60 AP and has now been corrected.

Don

Re: Amazingly hard
 

Maybe not as much as you think, Claus. The AP still has pen 6, compared to 9 for the sabot. If the costs were calculated for the sabot load, a cheap tank will be even cheaper. Pen 6 on a flank shot will still ring the bell of any
German tank of the time, esp. at near-point blank ranges.

Always glad to help out the game, even if we did kinda back into this error report :doh:


Matt