Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

The manual shows dom spread happening in stage 24 of the turn resolution sequence.

On turn 87, I had a single white candle in a province, and gave orders to a vampire to fly in and attack.

But when I watch the battle in turn 88, I see the unit stats as:
Basic Morale: 15
Experience Bonus: +1

I expected to see:
Basic Morale: 15
Experience Bonus: +1
Friendly Dominion: +1

The vampire gets chopped up by a Flambeau for huge damage, and it dies:

damage 117 on Vampire Lord, spec0x43 ba1
Immortal/Twiceborn Vampire Lord perished

Turn 88 shows no positive dominion in the province. But the battle should have happened in stage 14, well before stage 24, so when the battle occurred, I should still have had a single white candle. Maybe? Is this how it's always worked?

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

I am not that sure of what I am writing here, but I think that you're seeing the battle report with a client there, that uses the province information for turn 88, it doesn't have a recollection of what the province looked like in turn 87, it only has the "current" status report.

You'll always see this message when an immortal dies. What you'd see afterwards would be a "immortal resurected" (sic) as well, but maybe in your case only for the server during hosting.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

I'd be very surprised by that. If the client only had the "current" dominion info for a province, not the old dominion that the server used, battle results would be different. Unless that's the source of that bug?

Regardless, in this case, what he saw matched the actual results. No friendly dominion, the immortal died permanently.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

It's too risky to place an immortal on a province with only one candle... other variables such as spells and events may also decrease dominion. Is it possible a spell lowering dominion was also casted?

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

I thought the way it worked was, the turn was resolved step by step according to the sequence on pages 71,72.

For example, assassinations happen before battles, so when assassins kill enemy commanders, those enemy commanders don't show up in any battles.

At the start of turn 88, prior to any sequence resolution, my nation would have had one white candle in the province. Supposedly "All dominion spread (for whatever reason)" happens in "24. Dominion". So that's when I'd lose my white candle. And I thought the battles happened in (14.)

I can see how the client could possibly be confused and show the battle replaying as if dominion had already changed, thanks for that suggestion, thejeff. And my immortal is actually dead, no discrepancy. I wonder if that's the cause of any other battle discrepancies though? But you're right, there would be many more discrepancies if the client wasn't smart enough to know that at the time the battle takes place, healing (step 26) etc has not taken place yet.

Anyway, I'll be more careful with my immortals now. :)

Thanks for the help, everyone!

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

I've defended a province that was 1 candle to me at the turn I sent in, I was invaded by an army with the enemy's God and Prophet and I'm pretty sure when the battle was fought it was with 1 candle to the enemy according to the in-battle info.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

There was a talk about that on IRC recently. According to QM we have another manual mistake here. Preaching occurs before battles, when all commander orders are executed. Same for blood sacrificing. Normal spread appears on stage 24. So you can get preached out of dom before battle. Good to know when using immortals :)

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

Yeah, I think there might be some inconsistency because I'm pretty sure that if you attack turn one with a dom-10 pretender the fight happens in neutral dominion, and an immortal pretender will end up quite dead.

One thought, VBF, is it possible that the combat replay was screwy and the vamp lord died retreating?

[edit]
Nevermind, Zeldor's explanation makes much more sense.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

Not related to dominion but vampire lords related,
should vampire lords die when they retreat from assassinations?
If they are killed they reappear, but if they retreat, they vanish.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

Yeah, it's a quirk of how the game stuff is resolved, retreating units are apparently not "anywhere specific" when they're killed. They'll also die "for real" retreating when surrounded by strong friendly dominion....

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

Baalz:

I am pretty sure that if immortal unit dies and is surrounded only by enemy provinces, but with friendly dominion, he will not really die, but be reborn. I have witnessed that recently. So only routing from assassination makes you dead.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

Hmm, didn't know about the retreating immortal units.
Good to know, makes it much easier to kill an immortal army, permanently.

EDIT: Or maybe not, damn you both, now I'll have to test it...

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

I'm guessing Zeldor is probably right, since I don't remember where I got that idea. ;)

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

I have definitely killed immortal Pretenders in the past by making them retreat. The battle report says the Pretender hasn't died, but the nation whos immortal Pretender has died gets a message saying XXX has died, and also the 'Call God' command is available next turn.

Attached is a test game showing the above.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

Ah, I just reread what Zeldor posted. As far as I know dying it only matters what the dominion you're fighting in is. Retreating, dominion (and thus immortality) is irrelevant if you've got no friendly province to retreat to. In dominion immortals (I think) only retreat if their side loses 80% hitpoints or the turn timer expires.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

Huh, I didn't write it correctly, it was enemy immortal pretender routing with no friendly provs around and did not get permament death. I will maybe look later for a file.

Re: Dom Spread in Turn Resolution Sequence
 

Calahan suggests that an immortal can permanently die with no retreat.
I think that is true.

However, someone said an immortal retreating from an assassination attempt will also die. Is this confirmed?