YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Isokron's Midgard wins!]
 

Yet Another RAND Game (YARG)

Hi,

Pasha's RAND games are so much fun that although I'm already playing in one I have decided to host another one.
It is the first time I host a dominions III game. I plan to host it on llamaserver so hopefully the server will make sure the game runs smoothly.

At this point the game is open for both sign-up and discussion.

The following are the settings I had in mind. The ones I don't plan to change are in bold font.

Map: Glory of the gods (multilayer version)
Hosting Pace: First 15 turns every 24h, turns 15-30 48h, turn 30-45 72h, turn 45-60 96h, turn > 61 120h.
Hosting is planned for busy ppl.

Since I plan to play as well I will not be able to grant extensions, I will ask a non player to serve as a co-admin and will try to stay out of his way.
Mods: No mods.
Renaming: off
Research: difficult
Graphs: on
HoF: 15
Indies: 9
Disallowed exploits: copying Bogus' orders and overfilling enemy lab to prevent his own forge.
Victory condition: 9 vps. Each capital has 1 VP.
Nations: All LA nations, excluding LA Ermor and R'lyeh. This means 19 players.

Pretenders should be given randomly generated names or your nations name to prevent unintentional disclosure of player ID.

As for the nation assignment I do not plan to do this myself of course. I will consult with Pasha (the master of RANDs) re. how he suggests to perform that.

EDIT:
-> Zeldor has graciously agreed to roll nations for this game.
-> rdonj will co-admin the game. He will set the player's email addresses on the server after I create the game and handle extension requests.
-> For those who are not familiar with the term RAND.
RAND - Random Anonymous No Diplomacy.
Nations are assigned randomly.
Player's Identity is kept hidden.
Diplomacy or any form of communication is not allowed and is considered cheating.
-> Most players want LA Ermor and R'lyeh out so to make it simple and save debate let's just go w/o them.
-> After all players sign-up we shall wait a week for pretender creation. Then we start the game.
-> Please refrain from sending any in-game messages. Also, don't post here anything that can reveal information regarding you or other nations. No diplomacy or communications of any kind is allowed between players.
If you lose your identity is revealed. This is part of the fun in the game, guessing and 2nd guessing who is who until ppl start falling. If you do lose, please also refrain from posting anything with information on the game.


Players:
1. WraithLord, Led Bogarus to the bitter end
2. ano, Danbo, Psycho. Led Pangaea valiantly until turn 53
3. Calahan, herode, Leader of Man. Defeated on turn 60
4. Ossa, replaced by jr77, Leader of Agartha. Defeated on turn 31.
5. Dimaz, Led Gath to the bitter end
6. Gandalf Parker. Leader of Jomon. Defeated on turn 41.
7. TwoBits, Led Pythium to the bitter end
8. Natpy. Leader of Marignon. Defeated on turn 20.
9. Frozen Lama. Leader of Caelum. Defeated on turn 40.
10. Dragar. Leader of Abysia. Defeated on turn 16.
11. Strabo. Leader of Atlantis. Defeated on turn 54.
12. Executor, subbed by Maerlande, Led Patala to the bitter end
13. Isokron, Led Midgard and has won the game on turn 76. :clap:
14. Raiel
15. WingedDog, Led Ctis to the bitter end
16. Slobby, Leader of Utgard. Turned AI on turn 67.
17. LumenPlacidum. Leader of Ulm. Defeated on turn 56.
18. Alpine Joe. Leader of Mictlan. Defeated on turn 72.
19. StrictlyRockers. Leader of Arco. Defeated on turn 36.

Subs: Maerlande, JR77, Herode, Danbo, Psycho
________

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Damn:)
I wish I could participate but I can't because I recently created another game thread (the one you just copied one sentence from:) ). Probably, the time for my RAND game will come one day...

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Count me in please WraithLord. Big fan of your suggested settings for Indy's, research and schedule. My brain especially thanks you for the latter :)

Ideas for the game - If you are sticking with a no mods policy then no worries, but if you are open to suggestions I'd like to suggest making gem producing items unique like they are in Pasha's current RAND game. And maybe another one to change the cost of Tarts to at least 30 Death gems.

I hope both of these should help produce a different look late-game than is usually seen, and take a lot of the all too regularly seen strategies off the table a bit. Let's get those creative juices flowing again!

Edit: Can I also suggest having clear penalties for anyone who violates the principles surrounding a RAND game. So the consequences of sending an in-game message, or gems/items/gold etc. are known to everyone from the start.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

This is supposed to be a game for busy ppl, so perhaps you can join anyway.
And thanks for your sentence. I liked it :)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

I wouldn't mind making a mod that

a: Increased the cost of path boosters.
b: Increased/removed gem creators.
c: Increased the cost of Tarts/Abominations, if desired.

I've had some of these things under thought for a bit anyway.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Count me in;)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

2WraithLord
Reserve a spot for me, please. I will tell exact decision a bit later.
Also, I wouldn't want any game-modifying mods such as Calahan and chris suggest.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Ok, I want to play such type of game, and I agree with ano - no mods, please.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Wraithlord:

I won't join - not enough time for more games, but few suggestions:

- LA Ermor and R'lyeh in no diplo game is a bad idea, will make the game less fun
- CBM should be a must nowadays :)
- no game should go over 72h timer, ever, 96h in extreme cases
- 30-50% VPs max for the win, not 11 out of 12 :)
- indie str 9 will make some nations really cry, may be interesting though [but combining that with RAND may be too much]

I can roll you nations if you need that.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Home life VERY up in the air right now but I will sign up.
And I like the settings.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

This is interesting, and I wouldn't mind testing my chops with the "big boys". Or is this game only open to proven "experts"?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

@Calahan, your suggestion has merits. I am not yet decided about it. I'll go with the majority here. So far it's 2:1 against it.

@chrispedersen, you want in or just offer to help with the mod if needed?

@Zeldor, You gave good input. Let me relate plz (inline).
"
- LA Ermor and R'lyeh in no diplo game is a bad idea, will make the game less fun
[WL] Possibly so. In dom-II RAND hosted by Pasha I played Ermor (basically LA Ermor of dom-III). I was in the top most of the game but Jurri killed me with Mari blood theme (similar to LA Mari).
I personally hate to ban nations. If they are overpowered and there are enough vets in the game it is possible that they would be ganged on. or not. But that is part of the fun in the game.
I see it as an experiment. Could work or could prove disastrous. If so, there's can always be another RAND.

- CBM should be a must nowadays
[WL] Yes. You are probably right. If only b/c of the exploits it fixes.
- no game should go over 72h timer, ever, 96h in extreme cases
[WL] Matter of personal preference. I want this game to be relaxed.
- 30-50% VPs max for the win, not 11 out of 12
[WL] Sorry my bad with the 12. It's 22, or 20 if we ban Ermor and R'lyeh
- indie str 9 will make some nations really cry, may be interesting though [but combining that with RAND may be too much
[WL] let them cry :). The fittest survives. Let's try something different every time.
"

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

All are welcome. Warning though - so far the players that have enlisted are very skilled. If you feel comfortable to join in then by all means go for it.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Wraith:

But it's RAND, so if a vet gets uber nation he can own other weaker players. And they won't be able to organise anything. Or trade items to help fight power nations.

Relaxed games die :) Proven by experience.

VP a bit high, really. Getting 12 caps is almost impossible, it will take ages. See Artifacts. 6 out of 22 sounds like a more reasonable victory condition - and puts more pressure on players.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

WraithLord
1) I didn't understand your position as for CBM. This game was announced as no-mod game.
2) As for Ermor and R'lyeh, they should not be put into one basket nowadays, IMHO. I won a big game with R'lyeh once and I must say it was not that overpowered even before it was seriously nerfed in the last patch. Yes, R'lyeh is really powerful in the late game but you have to reach that stage in good position to be successful and when your mages eat all your gold which you don't have because your pop dies like flies... Well, it is really hard to be successful.
Population death doesn't mean a lot for Ermor because undead are not money dependent but it (in my opinion) makes R'lyeh one of the hardest nations to play. I never heard of anyone being successful with R'lyeh after that patch (I mean the games that began after it was released) and I personally think it is the weakest nation in LA now. If we want to ban it for this reason - I'm ok with it but not because it is overpowered. Perhaps it is still playable but I wouldn't want to check it. Really.
Ermor is another thing though. In my current game I allowed Ermor and didn't regret it, but... Ermor is certainly unbalanced and very hard to deal with. And in no-diplo game it will be a real pain. Noone wishes to fight Ermor because the gains are negligible even if you win. And nation who fights Ermor is usually pushed far behind. It ruins the game balance, in my opinion, because you are forced to do things that you would never do otherwise if there were no Ermor at your border. And, of course, Ermor in hands of good player will be death for everyone.
Just an example: as LA C'tis with base dom 8 (+ about 16 temples total) and a temple nearly at every province I'm still being pushed by Ermorian deadly dominion. I have a ton of priests preaching (not an exaggeration at all) and still my dominion at the border never exceeds +3 and sometimes becomes negative. I don't know if it is due to dominion spread bug or something else but it is a real pain even in a game with diplomacy.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

There's an element of luck here. A vet can get LA Ermor and another LA R'lyeh. They may or may not clash, may or may not be ganged on by neighbors.
These nation always get banned these days. I want to give them a chance. I want to hear more opinions on this before decision whether or not they get kicked out of this one as well.

Why, I played lot's of relaxed games that did not die. Some players stick to the end, other's drop. That's why I'm saying out front how this game is gonna host. If you (plural) don't like it then skip this game.

RAND games take to be shorter. Since diplomacy acts as a balancer and prevents nations from growing ubber unchecked.
Artifacts would have been over already had I not been in it.
That said, I see your point and agree 12 is too high. Perhaps 9 would do.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

ano, do you object to CBM?

got your point WRT LA R'lyeh.

So far we have one player vote against LA Ermor - yours.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

I feel comfortable :) That's what I'm looking for - a real test of my (imagined) abilities. I'd try not to let anyone down with an early collapse.

Now, I checked the other RAND game (just the first page, so I may be missing a lot), but how do you enforce "no diplomacy"? I mean, how can you prevent in-game text messaging? Or is that just "verboten" on an honor system kind of thing? Sorry for the stupid RAND related question, which I'm sure everyone else knows.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Yes (if I play, of course). Though I find it good I never played with it and I wouldn't want to start with a serious game like this.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Personally the only problem I see with relaxed hosting times is if the same person ends up holding everything up for extended time on every turn (thought that does bring to mind the musical chairs game version which fixed that). Also with a rand game, conversation about that in this thread would be extremely difficult without giving away who is who. But if the person running the game is willing to do abit of judge/jury/executioner without calling for votes then it can be workable. Maybe it should be clearly stated how long with no contact will be considered too long before admin takes action.

I agree on CBM. There are plenty of games that use it. It would make a large difference for those who are very familiar with it. Particularly when randomly receiving a nation/god to play. I like seeing a fairly vanilla game with all nations show up. Mark me as approving of all settings already mentioned.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

9 VPs is fine.
Ban Ermor, I hosted no-diplomacy game once with some experienced players - still they had no chance, he ate one of the weaker ones and then rolled everyone.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

My last "friendly" MP game, meaning among my RL friends, before I dipped my toes into the Llamaserver fun, I was LA R'lyeh, and I was being thwarted even before the nerf-patch came out (a billion free-spawn, even if they only suck up 1/10th the upkeep, still can suck you dry) by a demon-heavy Bogarus. Post-nerf (which was when I threw in the towel), there's no reason to ban R'lyeh.

Can't say about Ermor though.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

ok. LA Ermor has three votes against it. It looks like it's on it's way out of this game.

9 VPs it is then.
CBM out b/c the thread originally stated no mods and b/c ano objects to it.

I'll wait for more comments and edit the first post with the updates tomorrow.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

I vote for both R'yleh and Ermor personally.

And I don't agree at all that more relaxed games tend to die. Yes they will die if players who prefer fast games sign up for them, as these players get bored and disappear. A slow paced game is fine if the players know what they are signing up for when they agree to play, which in this case they will if they bother to read the status page. If players who like fast paced games sign up for this game, and then drop it due to it's slow pace, then it's full shame and blame on them, and nothing to do with the pace of the game at all.
I don't quite understand this. Is the 'holding everything up' reference in regards to someone who is staling, or someone who is always leaving it until the last minute to submit their turn? If it is the former, then they can just be dealt with like normal stalers (assuming non-playing admin involved somewhere). And the latter for me is not even an issue.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

I wouldn't agree that RAND games last shorter. Maybe in a previous one it was the case, but in RAND that is happening now everyone is still alive. And people are way more afraid to attack with no NAPs to secure borders.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Count me in please. I vote for ban R'yleh and Ermor

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

If voting is enabled than I am also against R'lyeh and not because it is overpowered but because it is underpowered with such settings.
First, indy 9 is a normal setting nearly for every nation except them. If you don't believe, try creating a game with indy 9 setting and playing several turns. If you took an awake SC, repeat without it.
Second, separate water regions and random starts make things even harder for them.
Third, everything I said above.

Sorry, for too much noise. Just want this game well-balanced.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

Count me in.
I vote against Ermor, but not Ryleh.
I love CBM, and its been a long time since i played vanilla, but i'm ok without it. (btw, the origional post still says CBM is in.)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

I'm in

I'd prefer CBM, and any gem item/tart nerfing

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [Discussion/open]
 

If this game is newbie-friendly, then sign me in

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

Updated first post. No CBM. 9 VPs to win. No Ermor+R'lyeh.
We have 11/20 slots taken. 9 more players and we are go.

Well, I still need to find a volunteer for co-administrating. Mainly, to assign players emails and relay to me requests for extensions w/o telling me the requesting player's identity.

Zeldor will roll the nations for us once we are ready.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

Damn, I wish I could play, but can't afford to play more then 1 game at a time. :( Always wanted to try out a RANDY game.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

Rand games take a lot less time to play due to the lack of diplomacy. C'mon winged dog, you can do it!

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

Rand game? No mods?
I see some people I'd like to play against here/
Please do count me in.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

No CBM? Strange, but your choice. I could help with co-admining maybe, but it's summer now, so I cannot be sure if I will be available all the time.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

I would be interested in joining.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

I also agree with Calahan about Tartarians. I'd like to see some other end game tactic than a rush for the chalice and Tartarians.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

I can help with the admin stuff.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

I'd like to join. Yup - another noob.

How long will we have to submit pretenders once nations are rolled? I'm not intimately familiar with many LA nations.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

After all players sign-up we shall wait a week for pretender creation. Then we start the game.

Thank you rdonj!- As of now you are officially YARG's co-admin :)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Cool. I'm very easy to reach with pm's, as long as I'm not sleeping or busy away from a computer I tend to respond very quickly. So if someone needs my attention that is the fastest way to get it.

Question: How exactly do you want me to handle extension requests? Just say "some unnamed person has requested an extension for x reason", or do I need to provide slightly more specific info?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Maybe you just could make extensions yourself and post here something like "hosting delayed by XX due to request by YY" where YY is nation.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Look how WingedDog does it here. I really like it

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

Hmmm, with this settings and low-pace game schedule I think I can handle it. I'm in!

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Great!

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 11/20]
 

:happy:

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Yeah, I could do it how wingeddog handled it. I just want to be sure I'm doing it in a way that agrees with wraithlord and that things go smoothly.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Well, it's probably the best way to be sure that request will be fulfilled.
Let's imagine that someone sends you a PM when you're asleep. You awake and redirect it to WL who is out of town. When he returns in the evening it's just too late.
Probably, not the best scheme:)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Yeah, communication delays could be a killer. Especially since I think wraithlord is a couple time zones away from me.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Yes, this also matters, of course