Possible User Interface Improvements
 

While managing small dominions is fairly painless, there are a few issues with larger ones that could be eased with some small but significant UI changes. While I understand that future updates to Dominions 3 may be in question, I feel that some discussion on this could still be of use.

Provide a Minimap
With very large maps and those containing distant neighbours (e.g. the Oeridia map with its gateways linking remote provinces and underground areas) large amounts of scrolling become necessary. Adding a minimap where players could click on it to be taken to the corresponding location on the main map would make it far quicker to move around.

Enhance the Nation Overview
This screen becomes increasing useful as empires expand. However it doesn't provide complete information on commanders or provinces (in particular the destination/target of orders or spells and the recruitment details of provinces).

I would suggest splitting this into 2 sections. First a commander overview which would include full details of orders given, including destination/target details and gems used for ritual spells.

Secondly, a province overview which could add further details like which units could be recruited and what has been recruited, along with temple/lab/fortress markers.

Thirdly, the columns should be sortable (one click on the appropriate header to sort in ascending order, a second for descending, etc). Need to find the best Astral mages? The richest provinces? Those with the lowest defence or highest unrest? This currently involves a good deal of manual checking which could be made much easier.

Anyone care to add to the above? (please keep suggestions limited to the UI since there seem to be plenty of other threads for game mechanics or general expansion).

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

I don't think a minimap is necessary if you zoom all the way out and use the arrow keys for scrolling. It would be nice, but I think it goes beyond the scope of anything added in an update so far and is therefore highly unlikely to be added.

Also the issues caused by very large maps are fairly easily rectified by, er, not playing on such large maps. I find the UI becomes somewhat inadequate once you reach a certain size and that's a big part of why I don't play on the larger maps.

You might get somewhere with sortable columns in the F1 nation overview, but it's been asked for before.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

Id have to agree on both counts.

Sortable columns might be the best answer which ties up many different complaints.

As for mega maps (which I love) I would agree on a mini map if it wasnt for the mousewheel. Im addicted to zooming in and out with the wheel. But that might just be on the windows version? As an alternative, during late game I do find it handy to use an image viewing program to have an image of the map open in smaller form.

Or keep a low-overhead paint program open (like the ms-paint that came with winxp) and hit print-screen button once in awhile. Then I can switch to the paint and hit Ctrl-V to paste the image in. Not only is it useful as a minimap but its useful to remember things as they were. Kindof a visual notepad.

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My biggest UI complaint is whenever i have to enter a numerical value. Even using the '+' key its really annoying to bid a substantial amount on a mercenary above what they normally ask, or other similar tasks. (Going from 200 to 500 is 300 button pushes). Why does the game not support just typing in the number you want? The lack of such a capability is really counterintuitive.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

You don't have to press the button 300 times. You just hold it down.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

Typing in the final number would still be far more convenient (and faster).

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I think official diplomacy standing (reputation?) will be usefull if visible to another players. And for future version i need any team play.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

I would dearly love two additions, if I may say so?
- In the "t" screen (troop orders screen), let us be able to see which commander has what, e.g. simply the same picture as in the main map view, where we can see what items or gems a commander has; this would be VERY helpful to see what exactly I wanted to script for which commander in a province with 30+ commanders;
- In the view commander screen (right click on commander in map view), let us be able to hit a button (such as "t") to see and change his battle orders and troop placement

Praise be to Dom3 Creators and Updaters!!

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

Doesn't work well. If you zoom out, select a province and zoom in again, the zoom won't centre on that province (resulting in it going off-screen most of the time). Yes, you can use arrow keys but it is a slow process.And what is the point of having a 1,500 province capacity if it is so frustrating to use it?

Another request is with commander names. Since there are a limited number, it doesn't take long for names to be re-used which makes things awkward if you have several Generic Joes in the same province. Adding a numeric identifier (e.g. Generic Joe-2) would help but for thematic reasons, a numbering system specific to each civilisation would seem best, e.g. for the Romanesque positions we could have Lucius Flavius Unus, Lucius Flavius Duo....Lucious Flavius Viginti-et-Unus (21) and so on.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

And the devs might agree. But the 1500 provinces were added much much later than the interface features. So now its either play with it or dont. Its too late to build around it now. Especially if you then have to port the result to Mac and Windows machines.

Good idea. I have the same complaint but with the provinces. I did fix it with the provinces. I went with two-word names. Such as the script for the forest provinces tacks one of these:
data "Forest", "Woods", "Copse", "Grove", "Woodlands", "Timber"
data "Timberland", "Woodlot", "Wildwood", "Thicket", "Growth"
data "Trees", "Canopy", "Maze", "Woodland", "Wood", "Forestry"
data "Wilderness", "Willows", "Oaks", "Saplings"

onto one of these:
data "Dark", "Greening", "Darkening", "Forbidden", "Gracious"
data "Elven", "Elder", "Mythical", "Growth", "Feeding", "Blue"
data "Carpenters", "Neutral", "Deep", "Nesting", "Golden"

To get names like Golden Grove, Dark Forest, Deep Thicket.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

If you use the # key to select a province, it will center the window around the province. You can then zoom in and out of it in any way that you want.

I agree to that, the limit should be lower. ;) There just isn't much of a point in playing such large games. The AI will be less dangerous, not more successful, the hosting times will become unbearably long very soon, and you'll eventually hit at least one of the other limits that are in the game. The game isn't designed to be played at those extremes. The minimap suggestion is good, though there are more important things that should have to change first, IMHO.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

I didn't know that. Thanks! :cool:

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Well since I would personally never play on anything anywhere near that large (my absolute max would be around 400, with my preferred being about 70 provinces) I'm not about to defend it. I suppose because people requested that feature and it wasn't too difficult to raise the limit. People who play with even 750+ are a definite minority and are arguably being a bit silly, so I'm not sure why any gui changes should be made with them in mind.

I don't know much about nametype limitations, but you can probably just mod the basegame nametypes to include more names (I doubt they are currently at the limit, whatever it is). I wouldn't consider this hard at all to fix and maybe some others would appreciate the mod, so why not do it? I can even show you how if you'd like.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

Thanks for the info - but while a little easier, you still need to note the selected province number, then type it before zooming.

Just having a command to centre the map on a selected province (the C key isn't being used at the moment...) would be of benefit here.
Expanding the nametypes would delay rather than fix the problem. There would really need to be a code change (not a large one hopefully) to identify when name re-use occurs and to alter subsequent ones to make them unique. Gandalf's suggestion of combining words could achieve this without having excessively long names ("Generic Joe One Hundred and Eighty Four").

A quicker fix would be to just append a numeric ID when multiple commanders with the same name are in the same province. That would suffice to avoid confusion.

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It would only delay in a theoretical sense. If you were able to input 10,000 names (completely doable with a script, it's just a matter of limits) I think it would solve the problem in a pratical sense.

It really depends on whether you want the problem solved or not. Generally modding something is the way forward if you do, requesting features is the way forward if you aren't bothered.

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I think commander and province names can b eimproved by just adding more to the lists.
I think a minimap would actually clutter the interface and be harmful. There's already lots of space eaten by your commanders (if you move 20 mages and their troops from one place to the next, you can't see half the screen). I also think mouse wheel + arrow keys do a fine job, and for the record dislike big maps, but I think a minimap would be harmful if it took any screen space. If you put it behinf a button, it would be ok but probably not that useful.

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You know you can resize the commander icons right? < and > keys.

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Agree with majami - an official visible status would be nice. I would also like to have at least a possibility to save messages from previous turns - or an in-game notepad system where you can write down some facts such as said diplomatic status, what you know about other pretenders, etc. It's bothersome to see opponent's bless at start and having to look up old saves to call it back when it's needed...

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Could just use an external notepad. I keep a .txt file open for each game I'm playing and note bits down.

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Maybe its the difference between a linux game and a windows game. Windows people seem used to having games that take over the entire machine so they want all the goodies to be inside the game.

I think its bad to add things to the game that are easily done externally. Some of the requests Ive seen would have had notepad, winamp, paint, an alarm, a backup system, screen capture, and voip.

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Map size use would be hard to track here. The map extremes (both large and small) would tend to be solo games. Most of the players of Dom3 are soloists but most of the people in the forums are MPers

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What evidence is this based on?

Just because people not on the forums obviously aren't playing the forum MP games doesn't mean they aren't playing MP. I play MP with people not on the forums.

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I'd assume that people that play on extreme maps in SP and have a problem with the province limits would come here to complain about it - or they'll play with less extreme settings next instead. So, there are apparently a couple of people that play on very big maps (the OP, Gandalf and Twan come to mind), but they seem to be a minority.

I'd assume that people play a lot of MP games with family or friends, too. They wouldn't necessarily have to register for that here. Didn't Xietor tell the story of some community of 50 or so players that used to meet to play games, including Dom3, before Katrina?

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Certainly! I sometimes even use an actual scrap of paper! :) But this could be made much more easy if there were a possibility to just copy some messages via a system copy routine...

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:D
I would settle on notepad - or a possibility to copy to it from game (a possibility to copy to paiont could also be useful, when I think about it... ;) ). All other things I can do from the same windows... :p

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

The game is seriously in need of a 'collect all gems from commanders and place in lab' command. Also, a way to move gems faster than 1/click. Clamming (etc...) may be the single most annoying activity ever.

If you can't tell, i'm a big fan of options to remove repetitive clicking of the mouse or other buttons and streamline them. Trying to avoid getting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome before I'm 30, thank you.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

Well, there is a 'collect all gems from commanders and place in lab' command. A button on the gems screen in the lab.

Unfortunately it doesn't allow you to only select certain commanders and thus all the gems you've handed out for battle spells go back to the lab too.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

I assume you mean a command in some way different from the 'pool' command available on the gem income screen?

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Wait, where is this located?

Edit: found it.

I'd like it to be by location, and accessible on the transfer screen you arrive at by clicking a commander's gem box - I honestly never use the 'magical resources' interface. (Might start now... i need to see just exactly how that works).

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

Well, for my part, I have a hard time distinguishing between units because the differences are so slight (pretty much same colors, maybe a shield added). This was a problem also echoed in a game review, which said that "unit icons are too small." (http://jaguarusf.blogspot.com/2006/1...ng-review.html) I completely agree.

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Maybe I'm just strange, but I actually like the fact that some of the unit icons are very similar. As you'll mostly find the units that have very similar icons are very similar in stats as well. And to me this is a good thing.

For example, I'd hate to see basic Indy Heavy Infantry coming in lots of different forms (with regards icons) as that might lead a player to believe the units were completely different in their stats and abilites as well. But they are not, as they usually only vary in a point or two on a few stats, but for the rest they are the same. So better to keep the icons very similar so that you know the units are very similar.

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I cannot deny that this is true, but in some instances the change is so slight that a difference can hardly be determined, so it is confusing when putting troops under commanders to determine which unit is which.

Here is an example of two T'ien Ch'i units. The difference is only their helmet. Although, the UI color doesn't help this situation much.

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/dduckett...7ienCh%27i.jpg

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

But there's very little difference between those two units - one is /slightly/ better and it looks /slightly/ different.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

Well, the fix is easy. You could just paint some symbol on the rightmost units shield and do a quick fix mod. Would take like 5min tops.

That's exactly how I view those two units (and countless of the other doppelganger incidents a well). More or less the same icon, so more or less the same unit. It's easy enough to separate the units (for play purposes) by simply double-clicking on them, so I don't understand why'd you'd want very distinguishable icons for units that were basically the same?!?

The more I think about it, the more I think I would really dislike it if the icons for vastly similar units were vastly different. Maybe JK+KO intended it to be like that, and if so, many :up::up::up: to them for having the icons the same IMO. Always suspected those two know a thing or two about making a good strategy game :)

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

You can also double-click to select like units. Throw them onto a commander and right-click on one.

In some cases the difference is significant. Because the Spire Horn Warrior is brown, unit 131 looks just like 129 in the army setup screen. But only 131 has a shield, it's just really hard to see.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

Yeah I have to agree it's sometimes frustrating.

Sure the units are similar and shouldn't look vastly different, but it would be nice for some to be easier to distinguish.

In my case it's not usually a matter of separating them in army setup. As has been said it's easy enough to double click to separate them.

It's more a matter of buying the wrong ones in the first place. I accidentally click and buy ten of the wrong one and don't notice because they look similar.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

I have one issue with units looking like each other. Very often if I play LA Pythium, I'll buy an assassin instead of a serpent priest. Which is really a mistake I don't want to do. And, I know they are a bit different, but the assassin looks like a priest imo.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

I'm going to go on the record as saying that I don't really think units look too much like each other. There is the rare unit that looks almost identical to another unit almost exactly like it, but as others have said these rare units are basically interchangeable. But for the most part, even similar units are sufficiently different-looking so as not to be too hard to tell apart. And I say this as someone who would not be physically capable of reading a thing on their screen without glasses.

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

My biggest complaint about look alikes is Caelum, especially MA. Seriously, most of their commanders look identical to each other. Can't they get different color robes or something?

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I will definitely concede that commanders looking alike is very annoying, as I've made more than a few recruitment errors myself. In the end I just learnt to double-check when recruiting commanders with certain nations, but still the odd mistake creeps in. And agree that MA Caelum is one of the worst. Plenty of scope for recruiting the wrong commander there.

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Well, now that we've all thrown our opinions around a bit, I'll say that the unit size really isn't a big deal and that, as Burnsaber suggested, modding the units would be a simple fix to distinguish them better.

*touches nose*
Not it. ;)

Re: Possible User Interface Improvements
 

I know, I'm vain, but I can't resist:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43604