Special settings

Turns will start out quick and gradually become slowish (for the sake of busy people like me)
CBM will be in use
Score graphs will be off
Map will be random and will wrap (corners are lame!)
Victory criterion will be control of most, but not all, of the map (I haven't decided the exact settings for this yet)
The four or so MA mod nations LlamaServer claims are well-balanced will be included... unless they don't work with CBM? Someone please advise me on this! (If nobody advises me, then I'll default to excluding these nations, because I don't know very much about mods.)


Special expectations on players

I am going to say a bunch of things about this, and it'll sound pretty serious--but if you're a new player, please don't be intimidated, because this isn't about player ability. It's solely about attitude. Here is my expectation: Always try to win, and never quit.

During the several multiplayer games I've been through, I've noticed that it's pretty ordinary for a player to behave as if the following were true:
1. He is the only important person in the game. So if he isn't having fun, then he should quit.
2. His part of the map is the only one that really matters. So if some vast power is crushing all its neighbors on the other side of the world, then he should ignore it, and fight with his own neighbors.
3. The game is the only one he'll ever play. So if his nation declines until it's very likely to lose, then he should quit, because he has no need to learn more about Dominions.
4. Winning many battles is the best goal to strive for. So it's bad when someone else fights him and wins.

I don't point this out to complain about these people, or to make fun of them. I'm just illustrating what I don't want in a fellow player, or in a game. I don't play in order to feel like I'm winning--winning isn't any more fun for me than losing, generally. I play for the drama and challenge of the entire game. So I want the people who play with me to keep trying to win, no matter what--not because winning is the most important thing, but because that is how drama and challenge are maximized. The AI is a weaker and more predictable opponent than most of us players are, and it's disappointing for every pivotal battle to bring about the total collapse of the loser's government. Conversely, it's interesting and fun to deal with a wily human whose dwindling but still powerful army has been trapped in a corner.

If you join this game, then I expect you to keep trying, always. If you start to win, then enjoy it, but only one person can win, so if you start to lose, then enjoy that too--or at least act like you're enjoying it, and try to make a comeback. I don't know how likely comebacks are in Dominions 3, but they're possible, and you'll never learn to make them if you don't try. Regardless, if you can't see yourself playing to the death, then please err on the side of not joining my game. (Remember, too, that your turns will generally be quickest when your nation is dying!)

I think that the only player for whom quitting before total destruction makes sense is the second-to-last one left. When you're almost gone and there's nobody left to save you, the game becomes silly. I'll try to set the victory conditions so that no one has to think about this. On the other hand, if your enemy is defeating you, but your enemy's enemy is still around, then ask for help! Or if you see someone else being defeated by your rival, then don't just sit there and ignore it--not without at least thinking it through, anyway. Defend the dying nation, or help them with some appropriate magic items and long-distance spells... or attack them yourself, to prevent your rival from gaining too much from their destruction! And, of course, SEND OUT SCOUTS. Score graphs are off, so you'll need them. You can't properly try to win, unless you have an idea of what each of your rivals is doing!

Among strategic ideas, these are pretty basic; and anybody who's very interested in the game, and moderately experienced at it, will already have thought of them. I'm not trying to give ideal strategic advice here; I'm only moderately experienced myself. (If your strategy can beat the one I'm promoting, then please come in and use it--I'll be glad to learn!) What I'm saying is that I want everyone to act as if they're very interested in the game. If you like the sound of this, then join! If you can't see yourself acting that way, continuously, for months on end, then please do not join.

I've made a big deal out of this, but it's not really complicated or difficult, I think. Just keep trying to win, and never quit. It's simple! But again, we are gonna be playing together for months. If you're the kind of person that I want to play with, then you can probably read ten paragraphs without serious pain!

IF YOU DO NOT MEET MY EXPECTATION: Then I'll... do basically nothing. I mean this is a game, I can't punish anybody and wouldn't want to anyway. I think it would be cool to build a list of people who like playing the way I do! So I'll remember how you act. That's all.

One additional, semi-related expectation: If I send you a private message regarding game administration, you will answer it within a couple of days, unless something really unusual is going on in your personal life. I will kick out people who don't answer such messages! (If I or anybody else sends a message regarding in-game diplomacy, then of course you can ignore it or reply or anything really.) So please keep your forum account hooked up to an e-mail address you check at least every couple of days! Subscribing to this thread would also be good.

The nation I want to play as:

Vanheim. :)

(I'll look silly if I say all this stuff and then wash out early! But I don't mind looking silly.)

Edit:
Players so far:
Arga Dis - Mithras (was temporarily Alpine Joe)
Bandar Log - Raiel
Eriu - Squirrelloid (was temporarily Iainuki)
Ogre Kingdoms - BandarLover (defeated as AI)
Skaven - Lavaere (defeated)
T'ien Ch'i - Maerlande (was secretperson)
Vanheim - Bananadine (defeated)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Yay MOD Nations, think I could join as Skaven. Been wanting to try them for ages in a MP game

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

I'd play if score graphs are turned on... was not impressed with this option after playing a few graphs off for a games.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

If mod nations are in i'd give Arga Dis a go.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Sounds cool, and I'd like to play, but I'm a noob that just joined 2 games over the last 3 weeks... Since I don't know what end-game is really like in a MP game, I'm wondering if this would be too much.

What research difficulty will be used? Other settings?

I'd tentatively take Bandar Log. (And, yes, I realize tentative isn't what you're looking for, but I don't know all the settings yet.) ;)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

I think I am interested in joining, although I must confess I don't know much about those mod nations and am a little unsure how balanced they are.

I'd like to play as T'ien Ch'i.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

They're not so bad balance-wise. None of them fit into the clearly top tier category, and some are probably on the lower edge of average. So I wouldn't worry.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Actually another mod nation only game is popping up so count me out of this one.

Sorry but I really want to play Arga dis but only want to play a certain number of games at a time :)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

People are clearly interested in mod nations but no one has advised me on whether they'll work with CBM. Thus I have made a query myself, in the mods forum. Early replies suggest the combination will probably work, but it's not certain yet.

Settings will generally be what's chosen by default here: http://www.llamaserver.net/createGame.cgi
(That, in turn, will generally be what's chosen by default in the Game Settings dialog in Dominions 3 itself.) The exceptions, of course, are the specific settings I've already mentioned. Also I might put 15 in the hall of fame instead of 10, because heroes entertain me. But that's not a very big deal.

You are welcome to be uncertain about administrative matters; those are outside the game. If you have any more questions about those, please ask. You are also welcome to be uncertain about whether you're choosing the right nation, or whether you're playing well, etc.--just honestly think and observe and try to win, no matter what, and any questions you have about the quality of your choices will be answered.

No one so far has given much acknowledgement of my request for player commitment! Well, I didn't ask for one. Maybe I will ask a little later, just before the game starts. Months, people, months! :)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Yeah it looks like CBM works with those nations, with maybe one tiny exception that I may have to iron out with some mod combiner script Llamabeast made. So, those four nations (Arga Dis, Skavenblight, Tomb Kings, and Ogre Kingdoms) are in.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

If you want a hand with making the combined mod, let me know. It's very easy for me to run my script (very easy for you too if you have linux or, I think, a mac, but just slightly faffy if you have windows).

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Looks like we've got four people so far. That's enough for a game, but a few more would be nice. I fear my unusual settings and/or expectations are putting people off! Well, we'll wait and see what happens.

Curious about this matter of committing to play well, I have started a discussion on the subject: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=700238
Apparently it's an old debate! Ahh why can't Dominions 3 be as popular as Starcraft. If it were I wouldn't have to struggle to find other people committed to improvement!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Since Arga Dis has just been vacated I'd like to take it up again. Seems to match the mood of this game nicely. I promise to fight tooth and claw until my last fortress is taken and my armies are scattered around my few remaining provinces. Then I'll give up.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Well, that's the spirit I'm looking for! But the expectation was that no one gives up, ever. Must we start making exceptions?

Then again, it would be absurdly picky of me to put the screws to the one person so far who's explicitly made any sort of commitment!

Getting serious about games. What a complicated matter it is! :)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

I would think that if someone has volunteered to play this game, then they've already given you your answer. :)

Bandar Log sounds good with those settings.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

One never knows, with random dudes from the Internet! You know what they say: When you assume, you make an assu of m and e.

(An assu is a demon, somewhat similar to a tengu.)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

That's very profound!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

It would be nice if someone could make a list of the players and nations who have joined thus far. I would do it myself now, but I need to go shortly for a few hours. I can do it later if no one does it by the time I am back.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

I put the list into the first post.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

I'm thinking I would like to play as Sombre's Ogre Kingdom mod.

I've no problems fighting to the death since that is what I generally end up doing anyways.

Any deadline on when this game will get started or how many more peeps may join?

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Not really. I think I'll close recruitment tomorrow morning.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

A few questions-

Will there be a single mod to combine the needed mods? If so, where can I get it?

Will this be hosted on llamaserver?


I'm interested to see how this plays out.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Count me in as Eriu, I seem to have time for another game.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Yes, the game will be on LlamaServer. I intend to use the versions of these mods that are already on LlamaServer.

I think there would only be a potential, tiny problem with mod incompatibility if somebody picked Tomb Kings... that is to say, Gregstrom, who recently compiled a table of all the ID numbers used by mods, indicates that Tomb Kings and CBM illegally share one weapon ID. However, anecdotal evidence suggests that Tomb Kings actually works fine with CBM...? I don't know. The upshot is that I might make a combined mod if somebody picks Tomb Kings. In that case, I'll announce the location of the mod here in this thread.

This shouldn't discourage anybody from picking Tomb Kings.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

I've confirmed this by checking both mods - CBM 1.5 has weapon#708 as a Rusted Short Sword, and Tomb Kings has #708 as the Asp Bow. My guess is that, depending on the order the mods are loaded in, either Asp Archers will have their bows replaced with swords or Ermor's Longdead Legionnaires will start shooting Asp Arrows.

Edit: I've done a quick look, and even with Tomb Kings thrown into the mix the only conflict is weapon#708. That's an easy fix to the mod - just renumber Asp Bows to 699 and you'll be fine.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Was busy today. I now plan to get on the map stuff tomorrow morning.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

The game is up. Please download the map and all mods you don't already have, and submit your pretenders.

Make sure the mods are all active as you design a pretender!

The map: http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMap...d/Tiny_012.zip
CBM 1.5: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...99&postcount=1
Skavenblight 1.00: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...75&postcount=1
Arga Dis 1.35: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...29&postcount=1
Ogre Kingdoms 0.7: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...44&postcount=1

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

If you've not installed mods or maps or used LlamaServer before, and you don't know what to do, just ask.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Another point about not giving up: A couple of times I've seen people announce to everybody that their bad position has made it too hard for them to win--even though, from the outside, they looked fine to me. Score graphs are off, and you don't have to tell anybody how badly or how well you're doing. Bluffing is an option. Control your appearance!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (MA, CBM, recruiting players)
 

Generally I'd agree, but your pretender dying turn 1 when he's in the Hall of Fame is impossible to miss, so there's no point hiding it. (eg, me in Nox).

Highly unlikely to occur (to me) in this game given the remarkably different demands on pretender design for Eriu.

Edit: also, emphasizing your poor position is a diplomatic bargaining chip - and with graphs off one could potentially misrepresent how well they're doing for diplomatic reasons... (Not that I would ever be one to do such a thing...).

Hmmm.. now i need to develop a strategy which hinges on killing my pretender in the first 6 months for diplomatic leverage...

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

I should have my pretender submitted within the next day or two; It's a little busy for me until the weekend.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Llamabeast confirms that, due to a limitation of the Dominions program, the LlamaServer doesn't allow all the victory condition types that the game does. So I went with victory points, rather than an absolute count of provinces that you'd need to conquer (which had been my preference). I put in lots of victory point provinces! I don't think that will change the game very much, but if it does... then we will experience the change. :)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

All good - just so long as i know what i'm fighting for =)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Your fighting for peace of mind

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

fair warning:

I will choose a character for my nation's ruler(s) and conduct my diplomacy in character.

I will start wars for all the right reasons (namely, if you piss off my ruler :D). (This doesn't mean I won't also start wars for more sensible reasons...)

I'm not sure how much of a nice guy or a bastard Eriu's leader is going to be. I wouldn't tell you even if I knew yet. You'll just have to figure it out the old fashioned way. :evil:

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Hmm... LlamaServer no longer seems to report the exact victory conditions. (It did before the game started.) I'm fairly (but not completely) sure I told it that, to win, you have to have 15 of 21 points. I definitely told it to place victory points in capitals.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Oh, the game program reports this number. It is indeed 15.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Since someone else has given a wanring that they'll roleplay in diplomacy, consider my warning given. Might write up a few little things too if the mood strikes me.

Have a good game everyone.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

The status page says I am waiting to turn in my turn, but I've not received my turn file for turn 5 yet.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

BandarLover: welcome to Llamaserver hiccuping. Tell it to resend your turn and it should comply.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Would I simply type 'resend turn' in the subject header then? I've no actual experience with llamaserver run games before these last 2 I have joined.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Go to www.llamaserver.net. Find the game (Redwich) in the list. Click on it and find "Request Turn Resend" as an option at the bottom. Click on that and it'll take you to a selectable list of nations. Choose your nation and click 'Resend Turn'. Wait a few minutes. Tada.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

thank you Squirrelloid :D

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

*gets confused by new banners*

*PMs wrong person*

Apparently I need to play more Warhammer or something...

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

He stood stearing out the tower window over the once great city, but that was the past. He had allowed an invasion by the Skaven and the inslavement of its people. Even he himself was little more then a slave to his Skaven masters.

Traitor, the Great Deciever, Merchant of Death, all names that the people now called him. And then there were the Skaven themselves, Skar Fang. They had given him the name before chaining him high in his tower to watch over his people. And work his wonders now for his new masters.

Returning to his attention to his works he noticed the seering globe begin to cloud. Sitting before it he watched until they parted and he saw Gutter Runners. Then the images shifted again to a golden-haired man. Again the images shifted to a battlefield strewn with bodies, men and skaven alike. Then everything became cloudy again before clearing. The Seer Globe once again nothing more the a glass ball.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Ugg... continuing my terrible luck at getting totally screwed by random events in virtually every game I'm playing. I'm not going to specify what it was, but lets just say that it was the single worst possible event I could have gotten and its probably going to be the thing that ultimately causes my demise.

Whoever thinks Order 3 + Misfortune 2 is a good idea is a moron. Stuff like this is way too crippling, and seems to happen to me every time I even start to tip the scales towards misfortune. (Hell, I've gotten totally screwed by a random event on turn 6 with Lk 3, but misfortune is like asking for it). Last time I listen to conventional forum advice.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Scouts will be along to assess just what your strategy is, and how well it is likely to pay off!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

I'll be out of town until Wednesday.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

I'm going to be out of town from tomorrow (err..... today) evening through next monday. I'd love if the game could be delayed, but if people want I can try to find a substitute.

If I can manage to play while i'm out of town i'll let you know, but there is absolutely no way I can play next weekend.

I'll also be gone some time in august, but i have a substitute already lined up for that. (He won't be available this next week for reasons similar to my absence).

For general sanity purposes, we might want to consider increasing the time per turn more generally - this past weekend i know i had some turns i felt a little rushed on.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

That would be a serious delay! But not a huge one. I'd prefer not to wait that long. But do you think it would hurt your nation much to use a (properly instructed) substitute? If so, or if you just couldn't find a substitute, then we could delay. It sounds like you won't know for sure whether you can play while you're out of town, until the time actually comes?