Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

I'd like to kill a bunch of my mages (to respawn as undead). Rather than using a chill of winter, I thought to use a communion.

The slave mages are all simple 1s's. The master could be
(e|w|d) 3s1w. (Typical R'ylleh star spawn).

I have to kill roughly 20 midguard van(glamored); and 30ish generic serf's.

Teleporting in so no covering troops. But I can pop in with a wraithskull to pop in 25.

So to the gurus: what do you suggest?

Goals: Kill the mages, but not the undead mages.
Win the combat

Most spells to level 7 available, some of higher levels. Btw when you die in the presence of the ankh do you retain items?

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

You say you're teleporting in... with 1S mages? It sounds like you're risking an awful lot of boosters.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

I'm not sure if you retain items when you zombify.... considering that wounds sometimes take slots, I'm not sure I'd risk it in any case. Should test that.

Now, the problem of killing those guys.

-To get those slave mages there you'll need to get them to S3, so you are risking two boosters per.

-Actually killing those enemy units will not be easy, but here are some ways to do it:

---I'd avoid Soul Slay or Mind Burn spam as Vans are quick and will be on you in 1-2 rounds, barely giving you time to set up your communion. This means Enslave spam is best suited as it will cause the Vans to stop and kill their brothers.

Mix in Falling Frost for other communion leaders.

---Take a D1 Communion leader so he can spam Undead Horde. The vans will hit them and blow thier charge attack, and will be slowed down a bit, given time for your Enslaving to work. Once he goes off scrip, Nether Darts are one of his options.

---Set the communion slaves to Communion Slave, then Enslave, Enslave, Enslave, Enslave. They will probably fatigue out after a few castings, but that's fine. You want them 100+ to kill them.

---Killing mages with fatigue is harder then you think.... I suggest bringing one leader for every three or four slaves.

In conclusion, considering the number of mages you need to bring and the gems this little attack will cost, and the risk, I don't think it's worth it. Just because a thing can be done doesn't mean you should.

I'd probably solve this little problem by dropping in a minimal communion to cast a Battlefield spell with a few astral thugs to hold the line while the spell does it's work.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

For this, I'd take the undead, and deploy right at the back. You probably want a reverse communion as per the communion guide. You commune, then your S1 slaves pack out the spellpower which should reduce the Van. This should both inflict plenty of trouble and heavily fatigue your slaves quickly.

With enough masters (probably more than 1 needed), that will eventually push the slaves over 200 fatigue and start killing them, Ideally, the Van army will break, and hopefully the masters' continued casting will kill the slaves by continuing to pummel them with hostile spells as they rout.

If you don't think you'll fatigue out in time, near the end of the cast queue, maybe try a huge BF spell like Will Of The Fates to really push the slave fatigue right up, and then let the AI take over?

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

I'm pretty sure being undead doesn't prevent fatigue damage, and I don't think LAD resets fatigue, so you have a pretty narrow window to work with here. It's pretty much a terrible idea on all fronts, as much as it pains me to agree with K.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

Fatigue does reset when you reincarnate as a soulless, and you do keep items (if you don't lose an arm). But I think it's more likely you'll rout Vanheim before your mages die. (Depending on how many mages you're planning on sending, it's always possible he'll just charge up and kill you). You don't even know if he'll just sneak the Vans out. And once you take the province, what stops Van from trapezing in a bunch of A3s/A4s to blast you to death with thunderstrikes?

Even if you do manage to pull this off, you'll end up with a bunch of afflicted mages with horrible MR and half the HP of a Starspawn. You've already got cheap chaff that can't be banished: your Lobo Guards. If you really want some Soulless of Atlantis or something, cast Carrion Reanimation, it's only 5D.

If you're determined to make some mages undead (and you've got the Chalice or GoH), you're probably best off attacking a neighboring province conventionally, using Soul Vortex + Paralyze (to make the battle last long enough), and convert some Starspawn mages to undead too, to save on their upkeep. And bring along a ton of Lobo Guards to convert to undead too.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

Considering the slaves are S1, i imagine they're starchildren, which means they've already snuck into the province and aren't teleporting?

I'd definitely bring the UD summoning item, and possibly set a/the communion master to skelly spam - tying up the Vans will be important.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

I really doubt they are Starchildren, there is even less point in zombifying them than a Starspawn priest. So I think they are likely S+(?SWED) Starspawn priests. Starchildren are at least marginally useful for scouting and possible assassination. An S1 zombie mage is pretty pointless.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

who knows what they are? the original explanation was somewhat lacking... technically he's claiming that he's teleporting in 20 S1 mages...

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

I was attempting to rectify a position I picked up.

I think VFB's comment is the most accurate assessment - its probabaly just not worth it.

Still, I think the idea of using a communion to kill is a good wrinkle on ankh spawn. I never said anything about teleporting in 25 S1 mages however, arch.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

Use bog beasts and you will have the minimal causalities. Bog beast is one of the most useful simple summons in the game due to exactly this reason. 6 bog beasts placed properly will kill you up to 40 priests/mages. I use it nearly in every game I play and I never regretted it. Races that have other summons with poison cloud (or hydras) may use them, of course.
Another option is, of course, chill. Should work too but I never tried/tested it.
Anyway you definitely need something that kills living beings and doesn't affect undead. Namely Cold or poison.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

Those are the two standard answers ano, I agree.

I was thinking of something more along the line of

(Big Astral Spell) -- fatigue - 200
Astral spell... kill all slaves..


Seems to me this requires 2 masters to properly do.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

Thanks, I should have done that in a C'tis game of mine. I used the Ankh + Foul Vapors, but it only managed to kill around 50% of my mages/priests each time. A few bog beasts on guard commander would have gone a long way to fixing that. Next time! :D

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

no other information was provided.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

chris
I don't know why you need so complex things. Use bog beasts + Ankh/LaD + cast GR on your own province. That's it for the price of 5(9 with LaD) death gems. Of course you need something except your PD that will hold the riders and at last kill them but that is not a problem usually at this stage of the game. Skellspam works the best because it prevents your troops from routing when PD is dead.
Also, there're several possibilities of placing beasts/commanders. With my current build causalities are about 0-2 priests (those who start fleeing in living form and turn to undead in the process. they continue fleeing and die). So one of your main tasks is to raise the morale of those who are being affected by poison as much as possible. Fleeing often means death for them.
In my current game as LA C'tis I am currently reanimating around 200-250 chariots/turn (about 80 H2 priests).

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

Good call on the fleeing. Thanks for the heads up. As I posted a couple ago ano, I think vfb was right that in the current circumstance this is too much work.

What remote summons other than GR might one use...

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

Phantasmal attack, send lesser horror, send horror. That's it afaik.

Re: Combat Puzzle, help requested =).
 

Actually, phantasmal attack is perfect!

If you equip your forward victims with an eye of the void - they pop phantasm.. Miscellaneous items will retain when they do change shape.

That would give bog beasts time to do their magic....