Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Decided I'd take a stab at a mod, especially since no one seems to be doing one with this theme. This is a definite work in progress, and I'm on the look out for good ideas. I think I have the best feel for the EA version right now.

I still need a name (or set of names) for the nation, but I have some subtitles in mind at least. I'll use $Name for the nation name throughout, unless inspiration strikes me.

Notes on 'genie'. The proper singular is jinni. The plural is jann. Herein I'll be using jinni/jann to refer to a particular type of 'genie'. All the following are considered 'genies': jinni, ifrit, ghul, shaytan. 'Genies' need not eat.

Note on language: I want to get arabic names for most unit types, but i'd like them rendered in roman characters, and sadly most online translations render directly into arabic characters which I can't read.

EA: $Name, Arabian Nights

The empire of the Jann kings, powerful beings of pure magic who rule native humans and lesser jann. Some humans have taken to worshipping the jann, and these humans are given privileges and bade to rule over other men. Many of these less fortunates are slaves of the state or powerful individuals.

The jann kings have concealed the awakening of the nascent god, and use their pretended divinity and magical puissance to extend the influence of their true master.

Historical note: Inspired by some Arabian Nights tales and put into a framework that makes internal sense

Strengths and weaknesses
Units: Cheap chaffe, ranged units expensive and magical, generally poor armor.
Priests: Weak
Magic: Strong fire/air/astral, some death/blood

Units:
Slave Infantry
Really cheap, weak, poor weapons, no armor, poor morale.

Desert Nomads
Stealthy, wasteland survival, good weapons, poor armor, good morale

Camel Riders
Light cavalry, wasteland survival, sword, poor armor, good morale

Temple Warriors
sacred, good armor, sword + shield, good morale

Lesser Ifrit
Capitol only, expensive, throws fire bolts, flies, magical being

Lesser Jinni
Sacred, capitol only, expensive, flies, throws lightning, magical being

Commanders:
Nomad Scout
40Ld scout, wasteland survival

Sheikh
40Ld commander, wasteland survival

Mounted Sheikh
40Ld mounted commander, wasteland survival

Priest of the Smokeless Fire
Human. Sacred. H1 +50% ?A +50% ?F. 80Ld

Shaytan
Mage. Stealthy +20. Air and maybe Death or Blood. (A2 + 10% ?DB)? Flies and can fly in storms.

Ifrit
Mage. Fire and Blood or Death. (F2 + ?FDB or F1 + 2?FDB)

Jinni.
Mage. Sacred. Astral + ? (maybe S1 + 100% ?ASD + 10% ?ASDB). Flies.

Jinni King
Top-tier mage. Sacred. Capitol only. Astral + Air + random anything. Flies.

----------------------------

MA: $Name, Warriors of the Faith

Over time the grip of the jann kings weakened on the outlying provinces, but the jann were losing interest in the world, and secluding themselves from it, and so didn't notice. And as they withdrew their presence the worship of them began to falter. In this crisis of faith there emerged a prophet to both humans and jann, bringing the holy word of a newly awakening god. The human empire grew strong, expanding the word of god by diplomacy and the sword. The jann remained connected to them through the worship of this new pretender, although they now needed to be called by powerful clerics.

Historical note: Inspired by islamic tradition, history, Haroum al-Rashid, and Neil Gaiman's take on him in the Sandman

Unit note: There's a real mixed bag of units I could choose to use, so I've left this purposely vague for now. As everything from camel cavalry to elephants to various types of infantry make sense, this needs narrowing down.

Strengths and weaknesses
Units:
Priests: Strong
Magic: predominantly Air/Earth/Fire/Water, some Death

Units:


Commanders:
Scout

80 Ld Commander

120 Ld Mounted Commander

80 Ld "War Priest", H2

Hashishin
Stealthy. Assassin. Sacred. H1X1 (possibly X = Death)

Alchemist
Probably as per existing unit.

Imam
H3 F2E1 +200% FAWE, sacred

Vizier
A2F2 + 200%FAWED + 10%D, capitol only

--------------

LA: $Name, subtitle

I'm reasonably certain I want this to be crusader era islamic armies, but possibly early Ottoman Empire. I need to resolve some things about MA yet to really start thinking about this era. Ie, if MA ends up covering the same ground crusader era would, there's little reason to use it for LA.

--------------

National Spells:
Call Ghul:
Commander Mage with D + B. Can shapeshift into a Hyena. Stealthy and Assassin.

Genius Locus:
Completely immobile mage commander summon (no teleport if possible). Is the 'spirit' of a location. Might need to make this summon one of a handful of uniques, because I want each one to modify local scales and I don't know if I can randomly generate such an effect. Only one per location if possible.

EA 'Genie' commanders become summons for MA/LA

----------------

Heroes:
Iblis (EA, maybe others)
Mythological: devil analog, but a jinni rather than a fallen angel.
Game: mage, Air + Death + Blood

Jabir ibn Hayyan (MA, LA)
Historical: Alchemist, father of chemistry
Game: Alchemist-type mage hero

Sulayman (likely LA)
Mythological: King Solomon. In arabic tradition he bound most/all the jann into an object, and could command them to do his bidding. Important later in demonology (see: Solomon's Key, Solomon's Seal) (I don't care to comment on the nature or reality of a historical solomon).
Game: mage hero, possibly air/astral or earth/astral?

Sinbad (any)
Mythological: Duh
Game: Is it possible to enable pseudo-magic for site searching only? Because that would seem to be the most appropriate.

Scheherazade (EA, MA?)
Mythological: More duh
Game: Powerful Astral?

Aladdin (MA)
Mythological: ibid
Game: some unique items (Ring, Lamp)?

Ok, that's probably enough for now...

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Sounds like a great idea; might want to ping a couple of the other people who've started in on this theme; see:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43380

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38268

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=34687

Just a few other things:

Flying Carpets and the Magic Lamp (w/associated Djinni) are already forgeable items.

RE: heroes

Sulayman - if he has dominion over the jann, perhaps he could domsummon (or have summon action) to generate them as troops?

Sinbad should definitely have sailing. Perhaps he could increase the luck scale?

Scheherazade - rather than (just) a mage, she should be a spy and/or assassin? (her description is as a good wife + storyteller, daughter of the vizier, with excellent insight as to the sultan's woes.)

Aladdin - needs stealth. Perhaps should domsummon his "40 thieves"?

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Also:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35105
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38342
As you can see, we came to a conclusion that the EA nation should be mainly genie-based, with primitive desert nomads as sidekicks (and yes, I agree that they should be raiders).
MA I think should be something like 10th century Arab states of Middle East - with both city and nomadic troops, plus ghulam slave warriors. I used some Persian patterns in my version (Pekhlevans, etc.) though I'm not sure now these were quite in place here.
LA was based on Ottomanic Empire quite shamelessly.
Unfortunately, we had a pesonality clash :) and this stopped to be a common project. Still, I have MA & LA almost complete except for pics. Look them up (the 2nd link) and say what you think. ;)
Also. Of course, genie should be summons outside of EA. By the way, genie in my variant are also partly Persian - mainly because I have more sources on them. Genie locus I like, but am not sure about where it comes from. I remember genie countries in 1001, but these usually lay "at the edge of the world"... Also, after-Mohammed times should get both faithful genies and infidel ones. I think that the latter should be mages with more broad skills (and maybe slightly more levels), but the former retain priestly powers. In EA there should be no such division.
Considering heroes - I am not sure about EA, but for MA/LA I made Old Man of the Mountain (heretic who still domsummons his disciples - it's up to player whether to keep him at home or use to undermine enemy... ;) ), Hoja Nasreddin - a Middle Asia folklore character with some cool abilities, plus, of course - Abd al-Hazred (someone should write Necronomicon)! :) I am not sure what to do with Khaliffs - they can be multiheroes, or prophets... Ideally, they should have high H levels, be present one at a time, but be replaceble if one is killed. Recently I saw an idea to highjack, say, Abyssian prophet for such a purpose. Unfortunately, this makes a mod not usable together with some nation in basegame (maybe it's possible to use unit from another era, though).
Also a question - how good are you with pixelart? I made some attempts at this and am ready to allow my pics to be used in your mod if you allow the same (not sure whether you need mine, of course ;) ). I think that Aezeal will also allow to use his pictures, but you better ask him, of course...

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Ah geez, I forgot all about the Ogre... That should definitely work its way into the EA somehow...

Thanks for the links - looks like most of those projects died a slow death? How encouraging...

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Yep they all sorta burnt out just as they started getting interesting.

Have to have free time and a little bit of willpower to get a mod finished.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Wrana:
Ach, more abandoned projects!

I used to be passable at pixel art. Its been years since i've done any. Mostly I found its something that just requires a lot of patience and a willingness to tinker. Which means if I can crib from other people's work, it certainly wouldn't hurt, but I think I'm capable of eventually producing something that I could live with.

Regarding ages:
Obviously I agree that a jann-dominated EA is a good idea. However, this actually gives me four ages worth of material, which is where i start dithering over where the division between MA/LA is in the OP.

EA: Jann Kings
MA: Jihad - spreading of Islam and the early caliphate. (Think 700-1000AD) Probably work a city of wonders themed baghdad in here.
LA1: Crusades era. Well developed military, powerful cavalry, etc...
LA2: Early Ottoman Empire. This has the signature disadvantage of require firearms *and* cannon. (Talking about the turks without talking about cannon is stupid. They emerge into history with the defeat of Byzantium - a siege famous for the use of rather large cannon). I'm not sure I want to deal with making bullet/cannonball graphics either, although it would be a rather different nation...

Maybe this is worth 2 separate LA nations, and give the Turks their due as a separate power? (Makes historical sense as well).

And of course, Persia has enough material to deserve its own mod nation and not intrude here!

The funny thing about fantasy in general is that it has this weird ahistorical idea that truly heavy armor and crossbows predate the use of cannons. As our earliest evidence for cannon use goes back to the 13th century, this is patently false, and firearms followed not long afterwards. They wouldn't become dominant considerations on the battlefield for a century or two, but they were certainly present. I would expect the LA to have cannons and a firearm unit for many of the more military-focused nations.

Genius Locus:
The idea is pre-islam, and pan-mesopotamian. Actually the idea of jinni is too. The term Genius Locus is latin, as the idea was transmitted to Rome following its conquest of the holy land area. A genius in latin is a type of spirit entity, so genius locus is literally a 'location spirit' (with the appropriate connotations on spirit from genius). The latin word genius is actually the immediate root for the english 'genie'. (Latin genius may be derived from jinni, although its hard to know for certain).

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

My first attempt at Dominions pixel art. A nomad light cavalry, horse mounted - not sure if i actually have a use for such a thing yet, but its a useful exercise in doing white robes/turban with shading.

Note that doing white with shading is hard. (I paint miniatures - this is a problem there too). I've chosen to shade it into yellow. I could make it look more white by reducing the shading... not sure how good of a trade that is at this resolution as it would just start looking like a white blob. I could also move it more greyscale, but that just ends up looking greyish instead of yellowish. This resolution is really problematic.

Proportion problem with the bow arm present in the original sprite i cribbed for this purpose...

Yes, its the attack animation. That way if it came out completely horrid even if I used it you wouldn't see it for long.

(I have it as a tga too, but png struck me as easier for viewing.)

Edit: Oops, i need to get rid of the lance, probably... la la la.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

That would be Ali Baba. Totally different, although also a plausible hero.

And the 40 thieves are his adversaries, not his companions...

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Whoops! :doh: I blame an education rooted in Saturday morning cartoons...

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Well, not that much. There is no such thing as white in Dom 3 units, it's too bright. Everything is mainly shades of gray, giving an impression of being white (see my avatar for example).

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

I recommend using Burn's avatar as a source for shading white. Although the robe is obviously white, the pixels are actually grey. To be honest your guy looks definitely to be wearing yellow. Also I think he might be a little small. Good start though!

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

I suppose I could do grey.

For miniatures I always preferred shading into yellow or blue depending on assumed lighting (warmer or cooler feel - day/night distinction) - but yeah, it does feel overwhelming in the game resolution.

So, ignoring the color, any comments on the shading?

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

He's the exact same size as the indie light cavalry!

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

The shading looks very nice apart from the yellowness. I also used to paint miniatures, and found it very helpful when making sprites - I think they have quite a bit in common.
As for the size - I can only claim madness as an excuse!

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Actually, I think a little yellowish tinge is good...gives it a sandy desert feel.

Bottom line, however: make it look good to your own standards.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

I think it might look best predominantly greys with some tinge of yellow. I'll see what I can do.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

I wasn't really done with the mod I started (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...hlight=arabian). It's just that I only do any kind of modding when I feel like it. That said, I've been tinkering with a new map lately, but summer is always summer. It's just too hot to sit at the computer all the time ;)

Nevertheless, I'm lazy, so feel free to use any of the graphics (those in the thread are the latest, apart from the lack of puffy trousers.) I'll gladly help at drawing some sprites, but there's no saying when I actually feel like doing more than just slight tinkering.

Oh, and by the way, curved swords aren't really historical, but I used them since they are what is generally associated with arabs anyway. That, and well, they're a lot cooler than broadswords.

My Supreme Vizier-hero was going to be like Jafar from Disney Aladdin. But hell, I even wanted a marakata hero ;)

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

I would absolutely love to share art chores with other people =)

I'll take a look at what you have, see what I can currently use, and work from there.

Curved swords are historical afaict from the crusader states period. The scimitar seems to have been extant (from accounts of the Second Crusade, Saladin is supposed to have sliced a pillow perfectly in half with one following the armistice agreement as a demonstration for the crusaders - Richard the Lionhearted of England bent an iron rod as a demonstration of strength.) Of course, the word used at the time would have been different, as the word scimitar dates from the 15th century - but scimitar describes a general class of swords, not a specific type.

But too much earlier than that and yeah, i doubt you'd find much in the way of curved blades.

Edit: Love the sprites. They look crusades era to me, for the most part. Are they size 2 though? They look big to me... But they're absolutely gorgeous. Not sure about the leather armor on some of them though - all mounted islamic forces would have worn a fine maille. (Also, 'light' means 'archer' or at least ranged. Not that Dominions 3 gets this right ever).

Could i get a translation of "Mubarizun"?

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

He's far too yellow for a guy in white clothing imo.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

If you end up doing some mixture of yellow and grey, can I suggest brown? Beigey-brown seems like a reasonable dusty shading colour.

I really like elmokki's sprites, good work elmokki! Do you have puffy-trousered versions now then? Can we see them?

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

"The early 10th century chronicler al-tabari lists the following essential arms and armour for a warrior. Mail, breastplate, helmet leg guards, arm guards, horse armour, lance, shield, sword, mace, battle axe, quiver of thirty arrows, bowcase with two bows and two spare bow strings."

I'm actually surprised at the lance. My recollection of the first crusades was that, in addition to incessant infighting, the muslims were surprised by the european cavalry charge. I'm guessing the referenced translation is using 'lance' in a more general sense and actually means spear. (Lance can refer to any vaguely spearlike object used from horseback, but in the specific european context it was a highly specialized implement by the 11th century).

Which means as much as I like your lancers, I'm not convinced 'lancer' is appropriate.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

And useful link: http://www.umich.edu/~eng415/topics/...ic_Armour.html

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Elmokki, your sprites (at least the cavalry ones) seem to be 2/3 or 3/4 the size of calvary tga's from the game. At least from your png file. Do you have a full size version of them?

(that might be why the riders look so large to me - they're the right size, and the horses are too small?)

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

MA was what those sprites were designed for, well, initially they were for EA, but they seemed to fit MA far better.

Anyway, Mubarizun is what I stumbled upon randomly in wikipedia:
"Mubarizun was the special unit of the Rashidun army. It was composed of the elite warriors, who were the champion swordmen, lancers and archers."

That's from Rashidun caliphate's age, 7th century. Representing them as just beefed up heavy infantry is a bit lame, I do aknowledge.

Dervishes - the only sprite I'm nearly completely happy with - don't really historically suit the way they were implemented with dual falchions, but I wanted a sacred unit and I thought a whirling dervish with falchions would be really cool, and would have significant real life background. Close to EA C'tis serpent dancers, except that the serpent dancers don't have berserking ;)

EDIT: The sprites are all essentially ripped from original Dominions 3 sprites and therefore are of correct size. Attack sprites for every unit except the mages and dervish need a bit of a redo though.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Here's an ingame screenshot to confirm that the mounted units are of correct size:

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Lol, i figured out what I'm doing wrong. For whatever reason the program I am using to open them is opening the sprites with different sizes for the pixels. (Its a layout program, but its the strongest graphics program i have). It must be resizing your image to a smaller scale or something to fit on a 'page'. (But the pixels are most certainly a different size between them and the game's tgas when i open them... so weird).

To avoid any issues, could i get your folder of individual tgas - O'm thinking about playing with a couple of them.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Light lances maybe? I seriously don't know much about medieval weaponry, but light lances are pretty much spears with lesser lance damage bonus and in my opinion suit better for any mounted unit that is supposed to have any "lancing" as main way of making damage far better than a spear :)

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

There's everything I had done. All descriptions, stats and names are really just quick drafts, so don't mind them :)

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Squirreloid, you should use GIMP. It's completely free (in the sense of being open source, rather than not being good enough to charge for), is quite easy to use and is ideal for doing sprites.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

So, of all the bizarre programs to use I was actually using Canvas - and enjoying the fact that its color tool allows you to *blend* colors by applying one on top of another. Made shading much more intuitive (to me at least).

The fact that it happened to be the best graphics program my computer currently had was also a plus. (I'll confess, most of the graphics stuff i've done in the last 10 years has been graph layouts for publication).

I'll look into GIMP at some point. I have some other things to accomplish this weekend...

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

You are welcome! :) Ours was not actually abandoned, I just thought about making some more work on it - I'm just not that good with graphics and am currently under influence of Sloth scale... ;)

That's good! I've also seen currently another thread with similar intent - and it looks another guy who can draw appeared. Maybe now we will end up with something playable!:angel:

Hm. I thought about it. A disadvantage of Jihad period is that it is both contrary to many things which are "common knowledge" about Arabic warfare and realtively unknown: later period has much more sources on it. Plus, this looks somewhat outside Dominions tradition - on the other hand, various existing texts often use notes about various great predescessors in past (see LA Arcoscephales). So I decided to place Mohammad between EA and MA in the end.
As for Turks - the thing is, they replaced arabic states, they didn't coexist with them. And taking Constantinopolis was not when even Osmans emerged - they already had powerful political presence before this (Bizantium remains paid them for a long time and some of these states were officially vassals of Sultans) and it's possible their attack on Byzantium capital could occurr much earlier if not for Tamerlan. Cannons were prominent in historical Porta, but it's possible to replace them in fantasy world. I just replaced janissary handgunners with crossbowmen and left heavy artillery for battle mages...

Yes, but there are many common mitfs in folklore here. Actually, what we know as "Arabian nights" is late version, heavily influenced by Persians. I have some extracts from earlier Arabian texts, but they are few and I have an impression that this is also the case generally. On the other hand, there are much more Persian and Persianised sources...

Surely! :) On the other hand, an appearance of gunpowder artillery in Europe was precipitated by the loss of art of making torsion-driven machines during Dark Ages. This technology was rebuilt during Rennaissance, but by the time cannons had also appeared. And handguns could not appear without some trafition of cannon-making... I actually think that there was a possibility that firearms would not develop, and crossbows and torsion machines being later replaced with gauss guns and similar... More to our subject, in fantasy world there could be a possibility that gunpoweder artillery won't emerge due to lack of necessity in it, long range attacks and wall reducing being performed by mages/monsters. Also, siege engines in Dominions are abstracted in Siege bonus, so you can just mention it in description... In other words - where we have Spanish and German pikemen without supporting artillery, we can have Sipahi and Janissaries without them, too! :angel:

Interesting, thank you. Words are quite similar, but... Romans were also quite ready to make something abstract into a deity, so it's possible that they were the source. Or it developed independent. Or it's a proof they really came from Troy... :)

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

I think its way past due for an Arabic nation mod; especially considering the breadth of history and mythology that has thus far, gone untapped.

Thematically I think you are spot on for the EA. Human chaff, with strong sacred Jinn available to provide your magical and physical heft. I think structurally the nation should be quite smiler to Kailasa, in that there will be a rising tier of summons. Lesser Jinn/Efreet can be massed by summonings, jinn nobles could be summon able caster/thugs, the upper tier would be occupied by Marids possessing awesome powers in astral, water, and air and the more conventional Jinn and Efreet sultans. I especially like your idea of including Iblis as a hero, as I could see him both as an impressive Air/blood/death mage with his pitfall being a high level of heresy.

Middle era should definitely be the high water point of the Caliphate and the land of 1001 nights. Holy magic should be emphasized, with viable bless strategies on the part of dervishes and Jinn summons. The army would be generally light/ with most of the heavy infantry/cavalry stemming from costly Turkic mercenaries. It would be cool to have sufi mystics, as spies/stealthy preachers. I think it would be interesting, but unnecessary for the nation to be able to summon chaff, flambeau wielding angels with holy/fire casters. I also like the suggestion of Abdul Alhazard as a hero. Particularly one with an impressive array of Blood, Astral, and Death balanced out with a terminal case of insanity.

I know a lot of people have been suggesting the Ottomans as being the driving force behind the late era, it just doesn't seem ideal to me. Too much of the Ottomans revolves thematically around gunpowder and cannons. An alternative replacement could be the Mamelukes. The nation could center around elite slave soldiers that successfully defended the nation from outside enemies only to eventually take power for themselves. Once again it would be holy magic centric, but as fitting for the LA, possessing much less magical diversity.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Yes. I should bang my head on the wall for not including it in my own mod's original post. Considering Dominions 3 has significant lovecraftian refrences already (MA and LA R'lyeh as a whole and atlantians especially) it would suit perfectly to an arabic nation.

Regarding that I thought someone's suggestion was awesome. It was that the MA version should have skilled and mobile, if less organized (represented by lower morale) light beduin type troops, atleast some of them with stealth and heavier, mainly unmounted, troops with ornate jewelled armors from the grand cities of the Caliphate.

For MA, the troops could be something roughly like this:

All falchions are replacable with a curved sword of choice. City guards and non-beduin cavalry atleast probably should have pretty good stats but also should cost a bit more than their stats warrant.

Troops:
- Militia
- Archer (relatively lightly armored, shortbow)
- Infantry (spear, shield, relatively light armor)
- Infantry (falchion, shield, relatively light armor)
- Beduin cavalry (falchion or light lance?, shield, light armor, stealth)
- Beduin horse archer (shortbow, falchion?, light armor, stealth)
- Cavalry (light lance?, shield?, medium armor)
- City Guard (relatively heavy armor, falchion, shield, castle defence bonus. A bit of gold yellow in the metal parts of armor)
- Some sort of a capital only real elite/noble unit (pretty heavy armor, falchion, shield, good skill)
- Dervish (The two falchion weakly armored but highly skilled sacred unit I've drawn sprites for and idea of which I absolutely love)

Commanders:
- Imam (H1 priest)
- Beefed up imam (H3 priest, capital only)
- Grand Vizier (a high skilled mage, probably emphasis on air and fire, but should have considerable other paths too. Astral maybe? Capital only. Might need a new name. I really like the idea that the best scholars come from the great minaret of the capital)
- Vizier (a less skilled mage that still is good enough to be able to cast useful combat spells of fire and/or air, probably randoms so that most of them have fire or air 2 atleast. One level of astral as possible random path?)
- Mystic (S1, H1, Stealthy)
- Beduin commander (mounted troop that's pretty much equipped like the mounted beduins)
- Guard Captain (a city guard commander)
- Assassin of some sort probably? Maybe the generic one?

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

A trap here is a possibility to make them too similar. Mine version had genie nobility with quite different powers from Yakshas. But as for troops... They are also depicted as beautiful - so Awe is an obvious choice. A possible difference is to include genie cavalry...
Probably I should upload last version of my genies here (some ideas were by Aezeal, I may be not able to remember which ones)... :confused:

Thanks for support! :) Another thing not mentioned here are Berberic Corsairs. Them I also included. On the other hand - I'm against the dervishes as troop name. I'd just name the sacred troops ghazi - but if most of you won't think it silly...
And yes, Abdul is so. He had also rejected Islam - and so is a heretic! On the other hand, if you will manage to conquer R'lyeh or find one other random side - you'll see what he can do! ;)

Well, there are many similarities here. Still, I know Ottomanic Turkey somewhat better - so without particular names, I used their troop types. Generally, I thought about adding several types of slave warriors, with the last being magically altered in childhood to obtain somewhat superhuman stats.
Another thing mentioned in previous discussion - I thought about making MA/Arab-based nation based on Shiite priesthood, with LA/Turkic being based more on Sunni. Anybody's opinion on this? ;)

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

About eras. I should probably clarify why I choose them as I did. While Crusades era is somewhat more widely heard about, coming of Seljuks changed many practices in the Middle East. This included greater dominance of mounted archers also. However, we already have at least 2 nations of mounted archers in Dominions (LA Tien Chi & Bogarus). So I think that it would be better to have nation not so one-trick - and 10th century provides many opportunities.
As for Mohammed's era - I don't think that we actually need another hoplite nation - and earliest Islamic armies were quite close...

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

Still thinking about this, but i'm going to be quite busy until the middle of august - expect more ideas or progress sometime after then.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

These ideas make the middle era sound extremely interesting to me. If the setting is roughly the zenith of the caliphate, then perhaps it should include the Martyr and the split of Islam. Perhaps you could have two kinds of priests, and after an event - such as the death of your prophet - you will have to choose which group of priests to dismiss. Or perhaps you could keep both groups of priests, but they would automatically attack each-other if you put them in the same province.

Or maybe Martyrdom could be a powerful late game spell that permanently removed your prophet from the game, but gave all your priests some great bonus - say +1 priest level and +1 blood magic.

Just thoughts. I'm not a scrpter, so I don't even know if what I'm suggesting is possible, but something that worked the split into the rp and had some game effect would be cool.

An interesting note
 

David Nicolle states in his books on Saracenes (Osprey) that vaunted nomadic shoot-on the-run combat manner required up to 5 horses per each combatant. This was possible for truly nomadic tribes such as Turcomans or Mongols, but armies of Middle East Muslim states, while able to field more troopers, were not able to provide them with so much horses. On the other hand, they had horses of better lines. So: their ghulams shoot while standing drawn in disciplined ranks. This tires horses less, so they were able to protect their valuable horses with barding.
By the way, this may also explain why Crusaders didn't use barding initially: their way of combat involved more riding (ghulams charged only after opponent was into disarray from shooting), as well as why they often won straight-on confrontations: horsemen who stand and shoot almost always lost against a determined charge.

Re: Brainstorm: EA/MA/LA Arabian/Islamic themed nation
 

The second one is possible, though I don't think it's thematic. The first one game engine doesn't allow (you can't dismiss any units in any case...)