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-   -   Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43962)

OmikronWarrior September 17th, 2009 02:54 AM

Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather

He is a giant, one-eyed warrior who rides an enormous 8 legged horse capable of galloping on the winds themselves.

Cost: 150
Base Dominion: 3
HP: 82
Size: 6
Strength: 21
Attack: 14 – 2(eye loss) = 12
Defense: 14 – 2 (eye loss) + 3 (mounted) = 15
Precision: 14 – 3 (eye loss) = 11
Base Protection: 3 (has leather cap and full leather armor)
Starting Magic: Air-1 and Death-1 and 30 points for new paths
Slots: Head, 2 Hands, Chest, and 2 Miscellaneous. No feet.
Movement: 3
Base Encumbrance: 2
Starting Weapons: Spear (Damage-3, Attack-0, Defense-0) and 2xHoof (Damage-20 w/o strength, Attack-0, Defense-0).
Starting Armor: Leather Cap (6 protection, Defense-0, Encumbrance-0) and Full Leather Armor (Protection-8, Defense-(-1), Encumbrance-1).
Miscellaneous: Glamour (stealth +25), Flying, Sailing, and Affliction (Eye Loss)
Availability: Vanheim, Helheim, and Midgard only.

Pros: Good for early expansion, gets better at combat from that point on, has flight and glamour induced stealth, just to drive the point home he has sailing, and starts with two paths.

Cons: Pricey, very limited availability, no obvious national synergies, no feet.

Summary: This is the second most expensive Pretender in the game. But the list of things he can do is longer than Michael Jordon's arm. Flight AND stealth means attacking whenever, wherever. Sailing AND 160 base leadership means bringing along armies from unexpected angles. Glamour means your opponent never sees him coming. He does have a thematic “missing eye,” but his stats are still more than high enough for SC duty. And like I said in “Pros,” he just keeps getting better. Air magic means Airshield, Mistform, and Cloud Trapeze and more Air magic means a better Mirror Image which glamour autocasts at the start of the battle. Death most obviously gives Fear +0 at Death-5. However, throw on a Horror Helm and that becomes Fear +5, which is much better, especially with Awe. He also gets two extra hoof attacks (at 20 damage a pop, strength not added) that stay with him throughout. Finally, Death Magic nets him Soul Vortex. Yet, chances are you've never seen this juggernaut in action. Only four nations throughout the ages get him, and they usually want something else out of their pretender.

Awake Strategy: Despite my cheerleading earlier, the Allfather still needs a few basic elements to do well in early expansion. The first is Awe, which is obtained through high starting Dominion. Dominion-10 and Awe-2 is ideal and will mean only a handful of opponents attack each round. However, Dominion-9 and Awe-0 still block about 50% of attacks and still works, especially when combined with Fear. If you are planning on using the Allfather as an awake expander, Death-5 really is a must. Air is sort of optional. You at least want Air-2 for Cloud Trapeze and Mistform later. However, Glamour gets an extra two images for every level of Air. So, I'd say go all the way up to Air-5 which also puts a lot of BF wide spells like Fog Warriors easily into his grasp and all Air Globals. Finally, place the Allfather at the back of the battlefield and cast Air Shield at the start of the battle. Nothings more annoying than having your Glamour ended by a stray arrow. Also, keep in mind that the Allfather is mounted, which means extra encumbrance does not contribute to his meelee fatigue. A shield would be very handy if your nations has the gems and mages to forge one of the early types.

Typical Equipment Includes: No feet... Amulet of Resilience, Girlde of Might, or Rainbow Armor for important reinvigoration. Definitely a Horror Helm to boost Fear. AoE weapons (Fire and Frost Brand) are always a good bet, though with 3 attacks per round players may want to diversify. For example, the short sword Faithful provides luck. Since the Allfather will rely on Mistform, the highest protection armor is less useful than the armor providing other benefits such as Copper Plate or Hydra Armor. Finally, for Miscellaneous slots, first added needed properties for a certain job, such as Elemental Immunity rings than if space remains equip an Amulet of Luck or Anti-Magic.

Bless Strategy: Weak, but there. Neither Air nor Death are considered power blesses for sacreds. However, all nations having the Allfather also have glamour troops. Glamour does not protect against projectiles like arrows, but damage from said weapons still ends glamour. Thus, an Air bless is worth considering, though it will need support from another path such as Fire or Water, the traditional power blesses. Fortunately, new paths only cost 30 points for the Allfather. Unfortunately, he already costs 150 points to begin with. Though I haven't run the numbers, its probably cheaper to get a Air-8, Other-9 bless with another chassis. Another option is to buy a third path for the Allfather and obtain a smaller 4 or 6 path bless, typically in Nature or Earth. This will be handy to use mounted, Cloud Trapezing sacred commanders as thugs.

Sleeping Strategy: First off, go ahead and loose Awe (Dominion 8 or less), and plan on using the points saved for a second path. Earth is the obvious choice. Summon Earth Power grants +4 reinvigoration, potentially freeing up an item slot. Then, Stoneskin, Ironskin, and Invulnerability grant substantial protection bonuses. Nature may also be a solid choice. Personal Regeneration is great. Barkskin is noticeably inferior to Earth protection spells, but there none the less. Elemental Fortitude should not be overlooked, and when combined with Elemental Armor provides immunity to all elements. Water is a final darkhorse canidate for improving the Allfather. It gives two and only two buffs: Personal Quickness and Breath of Winter. Quickness in general is very powerful, though it does require more careful fatigue management. Breath of Winter is nice for being an Area of Effect and providing Cold Immunity. Finally, Astral Magic is both great to have but a dangerous liability due to Magic Duel, a spell that lets Astral mages challenge other Astral mages on the battlefield and kill each other. Considering the Allfather is worth much more than any recruitable Astral mage, this is bad and forces Astral to be at least 6, preferably higher. However, Astral magic is quite powerful in its own right and combines with Death Magic to let the Allfather cast Soul Drain at some point. Against large living armies, this lets him spam Master Enslave (combine with Life after Death for Maximum effect). Other paths should be considered for diversity purposes only.

Magic Diversity Strategy: Every nation that gets the Allfather also has Air magic. A possible exception to this is Midgard, which only has Air-3 mages and could use an Air-4 pretender to forge boosters. Vanheim could use the Death magic to help climb the ladder using summons. The Allfather does have surprisingly low additional path costs (30 points), and the nations with him available all want more Nature and Water magic. However, he's already putting players 150 points in the hole, plus points for boosting Air and Death to desirable levels. It's probably better to go with a rainbow for diversity, or a different Titan who starts with paths desired for diversity.

Conclusion: This really is a powerful chassis, both physically and magically. Unfortunately, the nations that get him typically don't want a Super Combatant and instead prefer a good bless or something that provides more magic diversity.

LDiCesare September 17th, 2009 05:18 AM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Nitpicking: Sleipnir is eight-legged, not six-legged.

I don't think I ever saw an Allfather around. I'm very wary of the single eye with rather low protection (even though glamour is there and air shield probably a must) and no easy way of healing it (he'd need nature for that).

Kuritza September 17th, 2009 05:39 AM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
I played MA Vanheim with Allfather recently. For an extra-fast start, mostly - with awe, he only needs a black steel shield to start conquering provinces.

He's a very good early-game SK, and later he helps you with his high death magic.
But this is a risky strategy, because Vanheim desperately needs to diversify - having no astral, water and nature sucks. I was really, really lucky to find lizard shamans in that game - if you take Allfather, try to find lizards asap.

Also, I missed earth bless, but its hard to squeeze both awe and earth bless on Allfather. With earth bless, girdle of might gives Vanjarls just enough reinvigoration to become tireless, otherwise they also need a rainbow armor.

Agema September 17th, 2009 09:51 AM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Vanherse/jarls/drotts make weaker than you'd like thugs for two reasons. They need regeneration (15HP can be worn away by substantial PD even through a mistform); they could do with reinvigoration as with 8 spellcasting encumbrance and 4 natural tire quickly. If you're going to go for a bless, you really should resolve at least one of those two problems.

Neither nature nor earth are big problems for the Van nations. In EA, MA and (I think) LA, earth is available on your national mages. In LA, nature is available on your nationals. In EA+MA, you don't get nature mages, but they are the easiest indy mages to find (if not the only type you'll readily find), and it's almost inconceivable a decent 15-20 province empire wouldn't have any. Even if E is not available LA, nature can supply a magic gizmo for reinvig.

Kuritza September 17th, 2009 09:57 AM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Vanjarls make very good raiding thugs.
They dont really need regeneration as long as they dont get hit. I equipped them with amulets of luck and shields of gleaming gold, and it worked just fine. Maybe that shield wasnt even needed.
Reinvigoration of 4 and more is a must, of course. Hence earth blessing is so useful.

Agema September 17th, 2009 02:42 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Oh, I agree they're very capable raiders. But I think Tir Na Nog/Eriu's are better.

Kuritza September 17th, 2009 03:31 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
I think they are identical for raiding/thugging purposes. There are not many useful nature buffs, so most of the time you will want to script blessing/mirror image/mistform/air shield.
If you have a nature bless, then sidhe lords are going to regenerate 1 hp/turn more, of course. But regen isnt even that useful for a low-hp thug who relies on not being hit. :)

thejeff September 17th, 2009 03:49 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Nature buffs: barkskin and regen.
Mirror Image isn't (too?) useful on glamored thugs.
With a shield, I might not bother with Air Shield. Extra fatigue vs reduction in hits. Mirror Image will pop and you have to be able to survive without it. Mistform is what counts.
Regen, from spell, bless or item keeps the damage from adding up. They don't have a lot of hp, so even the 1hp/hit through mistform can build up too quickly.
Barkskin (& Earth bless) lets the Sidhe Lords thug with their base armor.

Blood magic doesn't help at all.

archaeolept September 17th, 2009 04:09 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Quote:

Nature buffs: barkskin and regen.
for the sidthe, it is barkskin and elemental protection. they also get water randoms, which are quite useful. They're better thugs than the van, but not by too much.

The allfather is perhaps my favorite chassis. You're paying a price, but it is well worth it. He's a stunning SC, can easily cover some of van's many missing paths, and can even provide some minor blesses that are very useful for van's thugs.

something like w2 a3 e4 d3 n4 is great. you can bump the w to 4, or give him f4, even (van doesn't really have fire covered as a path as it has trouble getting past f1). Van is missing water and nature (and astral!), and only has minimal death and fire.

Kuritza September 17th, 2009 04:11 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Ah yep. I meant that they will be buffed by air shield, not that they will cast it.

Casting regen with a sidge is a good idea if you want to kill them, fatique cost is just huge.
Barkskin - again, not that useful when you arent hit.
Mirror image will not pop if you give your Jarls a gleaming gold shield, at least most of the time. When it will, there will be much less defenders. ... at least if you dont cast personal regeneration with its huge fatique cost. :)

Calahan September 17th, 2009 04:16 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Nature is great on raiders for Elemental Fortitude alone, as it allows you to get full elemental resistance with the minimal amount of equipment. ie. Just a Brand or Scutata Shield. That can make defending agaist them far more difficult, as you often have to do a lot more than just "throw a mage in amongst your PD".

archaeolept September 17th, 2009 04:54 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
they can't use the scutata, but they have inherent ability to cast resist lightning.

It does let them counter-counter :)

barkskin also helps them a lot against masses of pd, which might overwhelm a vanjarl.

Kuritza September 17th, 2009 04:58 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Mmmmmmwhell, perhaps sidhe lords are better raiders indeed - too bad vanheim in general is so much more powerful than Eriu. :)

Calahan September 17th, 2009 05:01 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by archaeolept (Post 710747)
they can't use the scutata, but they have inherent ability to cast resist lightning.

It does let them counter-counter :)

Ah yes, I forgot the current discussion was about specific Thugs, and not just Nature pathed Thugs in general.

Resist Lightning does of course solve the need for Scutata's :)

(Mounted units can not use Tower Shields for those wondering why Scutata's, which is a tower shield, can not be used by the mounted Thugs under discussion)

P3D September 18th, 2009 01:37 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
The inherent N of the Sidhes also improve the 5% regen they get from N4 bless.

thejeff September 18th, 2009 01:55 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Technically true, but I don't remember it being enough to bump it from 1/turn to 2/turn.

Calahan September 18th, 2009 02:06 PM

Re: Better Know a Pretender: the Allfather
 
Edit: Deleted a load of rubbish my brain came up with.

Move along please :)


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