Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Several times i have seen guides talk of converting the starting scout to a prophet right away.

Why is this? Why not use the scout to, ummm... scout?

Why not save him for something cool like an undead unit or an amphibian unit as a prophet?

Immac.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

You still can - you kill your scout when hes outlived his usefulness and a few turns or so later you can choose a new prophet.

By converting him into from a scout at the start he can be used to help in expansion. If u'r a giant nation you can even use him to solo some weak indies. Just don't forget to 'move' and not 'sneak' - I keep doing this when I play mictlan to the detriment of my jags....

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

If thats the case why wouldn't you just turn your starting commander into your prophet?

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

First, your starting commander can patrol your cap on turn 1, so you can raise taxes without having unrest, and hire more units on turn 2. He can't become your prophet and patrol at the same time.

Second, a vanilla scout is not usually very useful for expanding. But if he can smite (and bless), he becomes useful. Depending on your nation, your regular commander may already be able to contribute to the battle by fighting.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

I usually opt for the commander myself, but vfb has the proper rationale...the other bonus a scout gets is lighter armor, which can lead to more casts in a long battle since they don't tire out as fast as a commander with full armor and a shield...all of which becomes useless due to critical hits when they get tired from wearing it.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

And also the aby start with a assassin and being a prophet he can take up a province within several turns especially the tough province.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

There are other rationales for prophetizing the scout.

You have a nation for which every priest can reanimate. Making the scout your prophet gives you an H3 reanimator from turn 2 without slowing down your expansion.

You want stealth preaching. A unit with sneak and Hx can preach while hiding, allowing you pinpoint targetting on dominion spread, possibly in a dom-kill attempt. And he gets his prophet dom-spread check as well. Speaking of...

You want the prophet dominion spread check right away (and need to do something else with your commander).

Your scout is your least useful starting or otherwise early unit, and therefore you suffer the lowest opportunity cost by making him take an action to become prophet. (Basically, most people want the H3 caster as their primary reason for making a prophet, especially in the early game. The fact that he is permanently blessed and gets a hp-multiplier/divider based on dominion will be useful much later, but in the early game its not significant). The opportunity cost involved in killing your prophet is also much lower if your prophet was your scout. (Allowing you to more easily accept suiciding him to make some other specific unit a scout).

(Not to say that scouts aren't useful, but they're only useful in quantity - one scout is not very much intelligence each turn. And generally having scouts in quantity means you've found one or more indie scout recruitment sites, so your starting scout is not going to contribute notably to a spy ring).

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

I disagree that your starting scout isn't useful as a scout.
Sent off in another direction than your first expansion army, he can identify your nearest neighbors, notice useful indies worth aiming for, etc.
Some of this can be vital to know early on.

Obviously, once you've found indy scouts, he's just one among many, but particularly in the EA indy scouts are sometimes rare.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Also on NI maps you don't get to rely on indy scouts and you're reluctant to take a national slot unless you really can't use it for a mage or leader.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

mainly is for the encumbrance factor.
Your army commander tire fast=few smites till he faints
Your scout can cast several smites
waiting for something better can be useful if you are LA marignon (blood sacrifice x 4 with the high inquisitor)
or LA Ermor i think is a must to wait for a H3 priest to make it H4

Maybe you can wait also to summon an undead commander to prophetize or recruit a tough one (giant) to use him as a HtH (specially with a good bless).

I often use the scout, is usually needed to the fastest expansion possible.

If you dont get a province with indy scouts you are pretty much blind.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

As with everything there are pros and cons.
For some nations the dominion in Dominions is very important. For some the priests are also so important as to want to squeeze every possible one out without sacrificing your few good war commanders.

The game settings can affect quite abit also. Small-map blitz games means waiting for safe expansion or a better prophet can be a very bad idea when compared to putting a stealth preacher up next to your neighbor very early in the game.

Ive also seen the tactic of using the stealth-preaching immediately to push your dominion a certain direction in order to prepare an area for the arrival of their god (a Super Combat pretender). Not only a good tactic but also a very thematic role play.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Did you try this?
I did, even backed up by stealthy priests and normal domspread, no way.
A h3 priest has a 90% chance - 5 * enemy domstrength, so against a dom 6 (which is already on the lower end) you have 60% chance to reduce a candle from the capital and another one for being prophet, but the enemy gets 3 to 6 100% chances or so every turn...

He is quite handy to push away evil dom though.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

If the commander has encumbarance 6, how many times could he as prophet smite before passing out?


Personally I practically always prophetise the initial commander (the exception is if I can recruit a H3 priest to prophetise to H4 (I am ready to do illegal stuff to get somebody able to cast Fanaticism ;) )or if I can recruit a SC or heavy-duty thug to prophetise), and definitively not the scout. To me the heroic skills are way more important than the possibility to sneaky-preach (but I can see why some would think otherwise), and the prophet is practically guaranteed to get the heroic skill from first combat. A military commander getting heroic skill makes them benefit from almost all heroic skills (more hitpoints, attack, defense, strength, protection they all are great for a commander-prophet, not to mention awe or reinvigoration etc), while on a scout they most likely would go wasted. Besides, a dead prophet in the HoF can be recalled as a mummy, and that is a pretty nice way to get a H3 reanimator and a thug (he'll have his heroic skill even as a mummy; did I tell about this obese prophet who got mummified and had 120 hitpoints towards the end of the game?).

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Every bit helps. It's especially useful if you've captured the capitol and are preaching there, but the dominion you are trying to kill exists in a neighbor province that you cannot invade (because it belongs to a third party, or because your army needs to sit on the cap in case of a possibility of break siege). This can make the difference between an easy capitol capture from a dom kill, and a hellacious fight against a horde of enemy mages.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

You actually have to check spell casting encumbrance to know, its higher than normal encumbrance.
6 is too low, i dont have the game here but checking edis db`s excel i dont see any starting commander with 6. But i checked 2 early era nations:

EA Ermor - Centurion is sc enc 7 , wich is very acceptable and gets you 14 smites before faints
EA Acrocephale - Myrmidon champion is sc enc 17 - only 5 smites before faints

in edis db its labeled enc2

so sometimes is better to prophetize your commander, sure.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Hmm, well I was thinking of domkill as a strategy not as a coup de grace now. In that case it might help you, however I'd still say that's a niche situation - as soon as your enemy realizes his dom is dying he has no other chance than to try and break the siege and give you the fight.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

And it's a niche situation that doesn't require a stealthy prophet.

A stealthy prophet might be useful against a nearby low dominion nation, but you don't know you've got one of those when you appoint your first prophet.
And if you're using him for that you don't get to use him in battle. And run the risk of him being caught by patrollers.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Stealth preaching, unlike a spy's 'create unrest' ability, does not give your opponent any warning. So he wouldn't know to patrol (and PD, even large amounts of PD, are inefficient at catching sneaking units).

Also, its a tool in his toolkit - you can use him in support of your army, but a stealthy prophet *also* provides the capability to stealth preach and domspread, which you might find useful.

And as has been mentioned, you can always kill him off to make someone else prophet later, with little consequence to your military position.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Well, I just had that niche situation happen twice in a row in the same game. :) YMMV of course, and it helps to have H3s and/or inquisitors to actually wipe out the enemy cap dominion.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Usually I prophetize the scout when I:

a). I need the commander to patrol, because I've set the taxes to 200 or so.

b. When I need the extra fire power - for example some nations have standard commanders - so keeping them near the troops is a good idea.

c. I like flying scouts - so pangaiea is cool.
d. Some units (vanheim?) have mages that are too useful to prophetize.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Another reason to prophethize the scout is if you are using immortals.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

200? I know its customary to jack up taxes a bit for the first turn, but does anyone ever have a starting army big enough to patrol down 200 taxes worth of unrest?

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Caelum can do it, otherwise I dont think any oter nation can go so high without unrest on turn one.

Pangea can recruit 40 harpies on turn one and go up to 200% from turn 2 onwards.

Re: Why convert the starting scout to a prophet in turn 1
 

Caelum is the reason that comes to mind - but it also depends on what I'm trying to accomplish and my scales.

Ermor sometimes wishes to raise undead.

As a possible for instance: You have a Heavy, usually cap only unit that is capable of soloing provinces. You want to prophetize it.

Sometimes the slot of time for the capitol only slot is worth more than the loss of gold.