To Write Dominion "Derived Fiction" and not Fanfiction
 

Hello and Greetings!

I just like to ask if this forum also caters dominion fanfics and not only in-game questions and guides. You see I find the Dom World very fascinating and for years I've been imagining what such world would look like. I also would like to make a Dominion 3: The Awakening entry on www.fanfiction.net but before that I'd like to share it here in this forum if it is alright. ^_^

Thanks and good day.

Edit:

Changed the title to clear the misunderstanding about fanfiction.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Wow! fanfic'ers for Dominions!

the fanfic subculture never sprouted in the fertile soil of the Dominions universe, probably something to do with the type of people who usually play the game (just a little too much of the cranky, crusty, curmudgeonly, archetype).

I'd say that there's not too much to trip over as far usual tripping-over-objects for most fanfic. The only personalities unique to Dominions are maybe Bogarus and co. I'm sure you'd have the blessings of the creators and community, regardless.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

I think dom3 fanfic would be terrible. But go right ahead!

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Can you please elaborate more as to why a dom fanfic is terrible?

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

All fanfiction is basically terrible. But to be more specific, dominions 3 doesn't lend itself to fanfiction because it isn't plot/character/setting based. Unlike something random like, I don't know, Superman or something, you don't even have the cheap thrill of 'what would superman be like in this situation?'

You could certainly write dom3 fanfiction though, I'm in no way claiming that can't be done. I'd rather it wasn't done, but it's not like I'm going to read it, so you have no reason to listen to me.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Just for starters, I'd like to state that I don't really know anything about fanfiction, just their reputation and the basic premise behind them. So I just might be a bit off the point here. But anyways..

A lot depends on what "fanfiction" actually means in this instance. It's pretty certain that one just can't write some basic Harry Potter fiction. Because, just like it has been said, dom3-verse lacks strong characters. Sure, there are Bogus and the named national heroes, but they just aren't that developed, having only their description (which is just 999 charaters long, at max).

What I think Raven means here are more like stories in dom3-verse. And we certainly have those, currently. Think of the "Chronicles" game and the stories written by the players in that game (could someone supply a link to those, my forum search failed horribly). There are many AAR's that are written in-character. Heck, there are some stories being written right now for the "Sign of the Hammer" game thread. In some sense, these could be classified as "fanfiction", just written by the premise of the events in the game in question.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

As long as no-one writes anything like Seraph/Thing That Should Not Be, I'm quite interested.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Go for it Raven. :)

I have read some fan fiction that was very good.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

I was thinking of making a fiction story that explores the history of dominions through the eyes of the people of dominion. Basically I was thinking of making a sort of compilation of people's accounts, journals, news, oral traditions etc, etc which would explain the bits of pieces of the world of dominion. For example:

> An account of an Arcocephalian skeptic on the Sauramacian's brutal practice of human mutilation.

> Journals of a female Ermorian Centurion that chronicles the events of Ermor's expedition to C'tis.

> A Marignonian Inquisitor giving a fiery sermon on the necessity of the burning of heretics.

> Last words of an Ulmian Defender of the Keep before the ultimate fall of the fortress of Ulm.

> Reports of a Vanherse scout monitoring the movement of a Jotun Army.

> Last words of a blood slave before being sacrificed by Mictlan Priests.

> A poster on a Pythian suburb that dictates Pythia's official declaration of secession from the Ermorian Empire.

There're so many things in dominion that one could tell. ^_^

@ Burnsaber:

Yes you are correct to say that I meant to make a story on dom3-verse and not necessarily making a story about a National Hero and his/her conquest.

@ Sombre:

I have to disagree with your claim that all fanfiction is terrible, thats just being biased. If you look at fanfiction.net, you'd be surprised to see a lot of good stuff and literature.

It is because dominions 3 doesn't lend itself to plot/character/setting base that makes it really, really interesting to write on. The game doesn't revolve around one character or one plotline which makes it very flexible.

There are so many bits and pieces of information scattered all throughout the dom3-verse which makes it appealing to piece them together and see the big picture or perhaps just a shred of the picture.

Like consider the description of Ermor's Augur Mages in the Early Ages. A sentence on that description states that these mages became very secretive with their work and then asked the sauromancers of C'tis to teach them the dark arts or something.

How the hell did the Augurs got the knowledge of necromancy? Did the C'tissian teach them or did they took such knowledge by force? The Augur's were said to have foreseen the end of the empire and yet why weren't they able to prevent it? Also why did the Bishops of Eldregate did anything to stop the fall? Why is it that in their description in their late age reincarnation said that because they didn't do anything during the great cataclysm, they were cursed more strongly than the rest?

So many stories just begging to be connected.

@Gregstorm:

Can you please elaborate more what you meant by this much appreciated... :)

@Bal:

Hehe thanks friend, however I'm not really a good writer myself, mostly I'm just a reader of other people's work. I'm still gathering people's opinions and researching for writing materials. ;)

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Given that you write fanfiction, that doesn't surprise me.

I don't see how you can call me biased. Every piece of fan fiction I have come across is terrible. Fan fiction is widely regarded as being terrible by people whose opinions I respect. If making any experiential subjective judgement equates to biased, well gee, we're all biased.

Thanks for the plug of fanfiction.net but 'you'd be surprised by the quality of some stuff' from a stranger doesn't really sell it to me.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_fiction

Thus my preference to avoid the area.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Hmmm, perhaps biased was not the word I wanted to say. Yes we could all be branded as biased if given the situation you just mentioned. My point is, to call and brand all fanfiction as terrible doesn't seem to be right. :(

Well anyways thanks for telling me your opinion here sombre. Every person's opinion is always necessary whether one is writing a fanfic or a novel. I do appreciate it. ^_^

Btw, I've searched the forum and I was able to find this.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...ght=fanfiction

This is a thread that discusses about the history of dominions and this is exactly what I had in mind. To tell the tales of people in the dom3-verse in a manner that may be in a form of historical fact or passed on Legends...

@ GregStorm

Wow...

That genre never entered my mind ahahahahahaha... :D

Anyways thanks for telling me greg and I assure you, that would never happened.

Although there are the female amazons.... hehehehehe

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Fan fiction falls under Sturgeon's Law.

Actually without a selection mechanism to cull out the worst stuff, it's probably even worse than that. That doesn't mean there isn't good stuff out there, it's just that you have to wade through the slush pile to find it.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

There's actually a whole world of dominions fan fiction you may not be aware of.

Here are some stories.

nutranurse (writing for abyssia)
Dawn of Abysia

Seon (writing for Pythium)
The coming of Celes
A bored assassin
A conversation with Dain the Sage
What does it feel to be a god?
Dain, Celes and Origami
The boy
The bear

T_F (writing for Shinuyama)
Shizen's founding speech
Shizen pondering over godhood
Bres's journal
Zenran
Meirei o okurima****a.

Kyzarc Fotjage (writing for TienChi (but calling it ashnoc))
Three brothers
Looking for Kathnesjac
Aara
Vodka
Kyzarc's travels; Flight; Monks
Invasion and aftermath
Kyzarc’s Travels: Reunited

Immaculate (Mictlan Ho!)
A slave story
Jalixt's return to Machaka
Blood
The relics of the Jungle Councillor
Acceptance is not submission
A battle ritual
Galleons

Darksaber1 (writing for Vanheim)
Lord Thordai the Thunder
The Vanir tome of creation
Secrets
Spies
The Aesir-Vanir war
The death of the Aesir
Changes
Midgard public service announcements
Raising star
Wake

Vertinari118 (writing for Jutenheim)
Magni's ancient glory

Diamondeye (writing for marrignon)
The Great Inquisitor



Hope you enjoy... :)

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Keep going Raven013!

Personally I cant help but fiction this game as Im playing it. Im more RPGer than PvPer. Some of the AARs here are close to FanFiction. Ive always been all for it. Ive even pressed for some to consider publishing. Id particularly like to see something that lays out the games actions, and then presents it in story form. Kindofa combination fiction and tutorial.

IN VERY GENERAL TERMS...
Part of what you will run into is that the RPGers seem to tend towards solo play. The huge sales, and traffic on other forums, seems to say there are many of them out there but they rarely have a reason to create a login and haunt this forum. While the MPers do in order to easier create and join MP games. Some people tend to be more a fan of the games mechanics (Johans excellent work) and others more toward the games fiction (Kristoffers learned contributions). Reading thru posts here you can easily get an impression of who is who. Particularly when they discuss the reasons for their choices of pretenders.

As for fanfiction in general, there isnt really an argument here. Everyones opinion seems equally true. FanFiction is yet another example of the growth of CrowdSourcing on the Internet (which I make my living off of). FanFiction, YouTube, CafePress, WikiPedia, theFUMP, Google, or for that matter forums like this. They tend to be great examples of the Pareto Principle. Mostly crap. But that doesnt mean it should stop. We cant find the good 20% without wading thru the 80%.

Edit: @theJeff thanks for Sturgeon's Law. Pareto is more in the business/marketing world but I will keep SL in my toolbox for some uses.

Any writer, artist, musician, programmer, cartoonist, developer who wants to take their work to another level feel free to contact me privately.


Gandalf Parker
--
brain fart, brain burst, brain dump, brain leaks, brain drips
or maybe I have attention deficit disorder with overly creative tendencies

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

I'd like a mulligan, where I don't follow that link.

Please?

Ignorance is bliss.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

It's relatively tame, though may fall into the TMI category.

Technically, I believe Seraph/Thing That Should Not Be would not actually be Slash, as I don't really think the TTSNB can be assigned a gender.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

another good article, from the wiki dedicated to fandom and fanwank

http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/Slash

one of my favorite wikis in the www.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Just make sure that somehow you include Optimus Prime, Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock, KITT, and at least one scene involving tentacles doing...something... ;)

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Can we not dwell on this? It's suppose to be a family-friendly forum (well, at least I think so).

Not that I mind. :p

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Ha, in one of my games I owned Gath with a Kraken, so a good base for a story. I prefered to not watch closely what he was doing with them.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

:confused:
I don't understand this "there are no real characters in Dom3" argument. You just make up your own characters. Dom3 is always more enjoyable when you make up your own little stories about charaters and battles and stuff.
Jeebus.... how difficult can it really be?

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

well, I think the 'characters' in Dom 3 are the nations. it doesn't have people, but it has, for example, a byzantine-like nation with Hydras. That's a personality. I guess in that sense it does have unique personalities

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Maybe there's some missunderstanding 'bout the "fan"- part of the fiction.

Yes, those K/S stories are centered on those two characters, which the authors are pretending to be fans of. Thereby ignoring much of the rest of their universe, for obvious reasons ... :puke:

Yet, "fanfiction" settled in the Dominions World can of course be centered on singular heros, pretenders or even persons not even depicted in the game - but to make it stand out from Harry Potter, one could not ignore the rest of the whole world as laid out in the game: You're most likely a fan of the Dominions game, not of the Red Dragon pretender, aren't you?

So, before someone starts writing (additional) stories, an at least somewhat coherent storyline would have to be "extracted" from the in-game text.

That said ... I started a Dominions P&P RPG just some days ago ... and o.c. I have just started thinking 'bout getting all the facts together ... :rolleyes:

One of those thoughts was: "Ask Kristoffer, if he has at least some outline of the history of the Dominions World scribbled down somewhere!!!"

... maybe I should send him an email soon, before I bore my players to death because I don't have an idea whats going on ... :D

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Holy crap isn't this the definition of "biased" or did I miss the sarcasm?

Hey OP, good luck to you. I tend to think a good story has more to do with the author than the genre.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Calling someone biased suggests they are being unreasonably prejudicial.

I wouldn't call you biased if you said 'All poo smells bad and I'd never eat it'. Obviously the statement does show bias, but the common usage of 'biased' isn't 'making a subjective statement'. If that's what is meant, why bother to say anything at all since everyone is guilty of being biased at all times.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

The below quote perfectly illustrates bias:

If you had admitted that it is possible for good fanfiction to exist, you wouldn't have acted with bias.
It's just like the old "all swans are white" example.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Since you are comparing Fan Fiction to dog crap, maybe I am misunderstanding what it is. I haven't read any fan fiction but the name suggests to me he wants to write a fictional story set in the Dominions Universe. I am guessing by the prejudice and the homoerotic links I am wrong on this? There are more rules to this genre that inherently make it comparable to something vile?

At first glance, I think the nerd hierarchy is coming into play here. D and D guys make fun of LARPers who make fun of those guys that dress in the animal suits etc.

Hah, I found an example diagram!

http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2008/07/nerdflow.jpg

I am guessing Fan Fiction author is slightly below TBS modder on the food chain, so much like the firetruck stalks the gazelle, you are about the make your kill. The ambulances will have to wait their turn.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Are you saying that Sombre is a firetruck?

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Bias just means a tendency to lean one way. Its not the absolute pre-decision. Its hard for anyone to be truly neutral so bias is just a sliding scale which can be slight, or extreme.

In the case of fanbased literature Id say its whether you read a new item expecting it to be interesting, or expecting it to suck. And how much do you lean that direction.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Yup and the Fan Fiction guy is the gazelle :shock:

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

poor Raven013!!!

run Raven013, run. The firetruck is chasing you! watch out for its deadly extension ladders!

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

I think there has been plenty of good fan fic. What is _Grendel_ if not fan fix for _Beowulf_? Raven, don't let Sombre get you down. He is just grumpy because his hat is ill-fitting.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Don't worry about Raven013, he can protect himself with the +1 Link of Doom:

www.fanfiction.net/Warhammer_and_Dungeons_and_Dragons_Crossovers/762/1116/

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

I always thought it would be interesting to write some Dominions based fiction from the perspective of a lowly warrior who moved up the ranks to become a commander who eventually proved himself worthy to become a prophet who eventually became powerful yet disillusioned with the pretender he served, and decided to rebel but in doing so became a pretender in his own right and eventually achieved godhood, a mantel he did not crave, yet one he wore with the grave weight of its responsibility resting on his shoulders.

Oh wait, just finished.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Believe it or not this thread isn't about me, nor do I want it to be.

I'm just a guy who thinks all fanfiction is garbage. Which it is ;]

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

No you're not. You are red and you roam the plains of Africa looking for your next kill.
http://rhibowman.files.wordpress.com..._firetruck.jpg

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

w8, my spider senses are sensing a failure of communication here... Does this phrase, "I want to write a fiction story about dominions" so completely and utterly different from "I want to write a fanfiction story about dominions"?

If these two phrases are completely different then I apologize. The kind of writing I was thinking of creating is of the first phrase, the kind of writing you see in fiction novels that you see in a fantasy section on a bookstore.

An original work that resides on the dom3verse.

@Immaculate:

Wow thanks for the link friend! Not only did you share to me some amazing works of dominion literature but you also introduced to me the great world of NES! :D

A million thanks my friend hehehehe!

@Samoht:

Your story is quite fascinating. I shalt write it down as material reference...

*Takes a notebook and a pen*
*jot* *jot* *jot* XD

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

FULL ACK

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

hey man, feel free to use that as some inspiration or whatever. i'd love to actually write a story with that premise, but I'm woefully under motivated.

Regardless, if you do write some fiction inspired by Dominions, I would love to read it. Keep me informed.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

Sombre's got a point.

Warning: rant.

There's a difference between derived fiction and fanfiction. From my understanding (and I have little expertise in English itself), the original definition of fanfiction is defined as using canonical characters within a particular work and re-interpreting elements of the story with an overall adherence to the work as a whole.

In other words, you are limited by the definition itself when writing fanfiction.

Fanfiction on FF.net is more or less "writing whatever the hell I want." Most fanfiction I've found lack a great deal of things - in the end, they don't even make good stories to read. The few pieces of writing using established game-universes I've seen that are (in my humble opinion) good are really derived works.

Derived fiction is taking elements of a particular work and then putting the author's own creativity into it. A short story written in J.R.R. Tolkien's universe about an elf would be a derived work and not quite fanfiction, even though it uses elements found in Tolkien's work (elves, middle-earth, etc).

This is why good video game writing tend to be more of the derived fiction format, because a video game isn't meant to tell a story. Its design is to entertain. Oftentimes people praise final fantasy or whathaveyou as amazing works full of character depth, but from a writer's perspective, there's really very little for you to work with.

So, in my opinion, good writing is good writing. It doesn't matter if you use canonical characters or not, so long as there's a purpose to everything in your story. Be warned, however, that oftentimes what I consider to be good writing is considered to be unreadably boring by the contemporary 14-year-old fanfiction writers. :P

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

You should post in that thread to tell the other authors you liked their story.

Re: To Write Dominion Fanfiction
 

@ Caradryan:

Thats exactly what I want to write, derived fiction!

Again I apologized for the incorrect term of saying fanfiction when in fact what I want to make is derived fiction!

Thank you for finally putting a name on the term that I mixed with fanfiction! :D

@Immaculate:

Yes I would definitely thank them in fact thank you for reminding what I've wanted to do on that forum. I just recently made an account on that forum so I'll thank them some time this day...

thanks!

Re: To Write Dominion "Derived Fiction" and not Fanfiction
 

Even given Caradryan's point, I think its more likely Sombre is suffering from sampling bias, and has chosen to avoid (whatever you want to call it) because the odds of finding something worth reading are vanishingly small.

Most people suck as writers. Fortunately, published writing requires the writer to get someone to read it and like it, makes the writer revise the manuscript based on comments from editors, and generally improves the quality of the work. Further, he needs to have some talent or he wouldn't even get in the door. Thus, most people simply can't get published, so published literature is selectively biased towards better writers. (Now, given most published writers are not especially good and oftentimes hacks, this means that even with that high barrier to entry there's still a lot of crap that *does* get published).

Then there's 'fanfiction', or 'derived fictin' or whatever you want to call it. Any moron with a modem can post his work on the internet. Suddenly, we're awash in crap from would-be writers no one would ever publish. Further, people with actual talent don't write fanfiction - they can actually make money writing instead. So in addition to no crap filter, there's selection against good writers entering the community. Thus, the odds of finding anything redeeming amongst the veritable sea of bad fanfiction is vanishingly small, simply because the sample has not been pre-biased for quality like published writing is. It may be Raven is actually good, but statistically speaking the odds are well and truly against it.

Re: To Write Dominion "Derived Fiction" and not Fanfiction
 

Oh that's fan fiction? I thought it was called "Forums". ;)

Re: To Write Dominion "Derived Fiction" and not Fanfiction
 

I don't know. I don't really think the "fan fiction" vs "derived fiction" distinction is anything like common usage, especially since this thread is the second result of a Google search on "derived fiction".
It sounds like someone not wanting to admit to writing, or reading, fanfiction, so they come up with a different name to distinguish the sub-category they like.

I'd also argue that while Sturgeon's law certainly applies and you're unlikely to find great literature as fan fiction, suggesting that anyone with actual talent won't write fan fiction because they can actually make money writing, vastly underestimates the difficulty of making a living writing. I've got a friend who's a reasonably successful writer with a dozen or so books published in the last 4 years, after years of trying to break into the industry. I make far more as a fairly low paid computer geek than she does. So I don't find it too unlikely that someone with writing talent and another career might write fan fiction as a hobby.

Re: To Write Dominion "Derived Fiction" and not Fanfiction
 

Although I generally agree with your points regarding statistics, I disagree with that particular bit. Getting published is a real pain, and a pretty long process. One has to really want to get published to do so. There are some writers who started by writing free stuff (PenOfChaos in France for instance). It was not fan fiction, though.

Re: To Write Dominion "Derived Fiction" and not Fanfiction
 

Before I start, let me just tell you that I am not a professional writer or am I an 11 year-old naruto fan. I am just a normal guy who has a passion for reading and writing works of fiction.

Anyways...


Clarification:

There should be a distinction between a fiction written as a tribute to a character (fanfiction) and fiction that is set on a derived work of a fiction author which Mr. Caradryan named as "derived" fiction because this thread demands that there should be. If this thread was posted on the Dota forum site Dota-allstars.com's fanfiction thread then the term derived fiction won't be used at all. The term derived fiction is not of common usage its just a term made to distinguish some differences of thought on this thread. I for a fact didn't even bother to make the distinction hence the title of this thread as was "To Write Dominion Fanfiction" hoping people with get the drift.

@Squirrelloid

That is absolutely true. Perhaps this may come as a shock for you but I for one would bet that it would be the author of the fanfiction to be the first to know if his/her story sucks or not. However instead of paying proof readers or publishing houses, people have found a more cheaper and better way to counter their own suckiness and that is through PEER REVIEW. People go to forums and post their works their in order for other people to review it. Yes thats right. Letting some random guy read your work and letting him post a constructive criticism is a much, much cheaper and exciting compared to a paid proof reader.

Put your feet inside the writer's shoes and feel the feeling of waiting anxiously for anyone to comment on your work. Believe me its exhilirating; you don't know what they will say, whether if they like it or want it to burn in hell along with you, it is in its on way, a thrilling experience.

Maybe this did not occur when you write your post but I'm pretty sure these "morons" with modems did not deliver their work in a silver-platter. Well how could they? They are just amateurs who just have the passion and time to write. Tell me good sir, is that even a crime?

Why in the hell would a professional writer even bother writing fanfiction? If he is indeed a professional then he would think as a professional and not sell his written work for free. Fanfiction is free for everyone (with copyright to the author of course) so why would J.K. Rowling write her works for free if she could make millions out of it? Fanfiction and with all of its subgenres are free for everyone to see and fanfic writers do this because it is their passion. Again, is that a crime?

Look. There is a very, very simple solution to all of your grievances of fanfiction as being sucky and Mr. Sombre even pointed this out in his first post.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE FANFICTION THEN DON'T READ IT...

Re: To Write Dominion "Derived Fiction" and not Fanfiction
 

Case in point: Steven Brust, author of the "Vlad Taltos" series of novels and a better-than-fair writer of fantasy, wrote a "Firefly" fanfic. Were it "Star Trek" or "Star Wars" instead of "Firefly", possibly he could have written an authorized novel instead (which is the other reason a professional author would write fanfiction, they're getting paid for it, and I would say that authorized novels in a given universe are pretty much professional fan fiction). But Brust wrote a Firefly (short) Firefly novel anyway, because he loved the characters and the universe.