The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

I have maked a small tuning on the CBM 1.6, lowering a little the age of Triarii. Why? I start from beginning...

I agree that the praetorian guard is a prestigiuos role gained after a long career as soldier; this definition justifies the old age of the praetorian guard in the game and the consequent afflictions derived from it.

But the triarii units was the better piece of the entire roman army; they was a well trained and equipped soldiers, ever deploeyed in the rear of the army to inflict the critical hit to the enemy.
Hence I refuse to figure them as seasoned men with rheumatism, affliciton and osteoporosis

I know that a triarii unit has to be a veteran but not necessarily a decrepit man, so my test was to lower his age from 55 to 45 to avoid the affliction penalties and to increase his "temporal" efficiency, otherwise this unit (the most powerful in the real roman army) remains totally useless for the gaming purpose.

After two game played with this variant, I'm secure that this little tuning would improve both the CBM mod itslef and the game experience of the players that prefer ermor or phytum nation.

An other little tuning that I've maked is to raise the Censor cost from 30 to 50, but is is another story for an other post.

So, is it possibile to consider this modification and insert it in the next version of CBM mod? What is the opinion of the other players, especially Ermor/Phytum one?

Thanks and sorry for english, :doh:
Fosforo


Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

The Triarii change doesn't bug me. But as i mentioned in the other thread, the cost of the censor could be zero and he'd never see play. It could give you money every time you hire him and never see play. So his actual hire cost is irrelevant.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

But I use it very often: he can lead a mix of living and undead troops, he is a holy unit with great damage and he has a interesting patrol bonus too (that I exploit greatly in the first stage of the game).
Usually I give him some good defensive item to gap his weakness and often I recruit a censor in the first/secon turn of the game, then I turn it in my prophet to improve is leader capability/holy level 3.

A Censor with a little group of Lictor can easily calm down the population (unrest) in the capital, letting me to fix the tax level to 150 and above for many many turns.
From his patrolling activity derives a good quantity of corpse that I usually trasform in undead unit.
Obviously I set my Growth/Death scales on +2 or +3 to consent this reiterated tactic.

I consider it an interesting commander, maybe am I wrong?
Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Interesting =/= useful necessarily. You're far better off recruiting a mage, particularly since MA Ermor uses them to lead/bless your armies of shadow vestals and to reanimate Longdead Horsemen.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

It's also true that useful is different from enjoyable.
In game of so much deep, I prefer to role-play than to simple play (or win), so I can accept that one unit is stronger than other, but in my opinion every unit must have a little chance to become useful/to be used.

This is possible for the Censor, that is surely worse than Thraumaturg but in absolute is a nice piece to deal with, but is definetely impossible with Triarii and Praetorian Guard.

Even if the triarii was a little younger (es: 48 age) probably the Princeps would be a better choice, but at least, with this little tuninig, the Triarii unit can have a little chance to be recruited, especially for the player animated by the role-playing intent as described above.

Obviously I can continue to use my mod, but my friend don't want to use a mod that exslusively advantage my nation; so I'd like that the "triarii rejuvenation" tuning will be insert in the future version of the largely diffused and "authorative" CBM 1.6 :up:

The concept: "Is useless to improve this unit because in any case there is an other better (and in some manner obligatory) choice" doesn't reward a so beatiful game like Dom3; let's try to separate the agonistic aspect from the design/verisimilitude/plausibility aspect.

Sorry for english and imperative tone, solely caused by my grammar ignorance :p

Fosforo, promotive of the "rejuvenate triarii" group (presently with one only member)

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Lictors also aren't worth using when you have Shadow Vestals. =)

First problem: Censor may be able to lead undead, but he can't bless them. Thus you would almost always rather have a thaumaturge or grand thaumaturge for that reason alone.

Second problem: Thaums and Grand Thaums can raise undead to fight for you. These are free troops that cost no upkeep. So no need to overtax.

Third problem: Mages can do research, teh censor can't.

Fourth and most important problem: Censor is cap-only. Grand Thaumaturge is cap-only. Every censor you hire is a grand thaumaturge you don't hire. Grand thaumaturges win the game for you, censors don't. QED: censors are a waste of time.

As to prophet - i make my starting scout a prophet and start reanimating longdead horsemen. He'll just sit in my capital all game doing that.

If you want censors to be useable, remove the cap-only restriction. Then they might actually see play. Competing for a single commander buy with your top tier mage means it loses every time.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

I agree that triari should be just below the old age limit, this would actually cause some of them to be old since there is a random modification to the starting age of each unit recruited.

The censors and lictors could be non cap as well to see some use.

As you say, both changes from a roleplaying perspective.

I think the problem with your proposal is that MA ermor really don't need empowering from a balance point of view, rather the contrary. So you get people disagreeing because of that also.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Yes, my purpose is exactly this: I'd like to set the age just below the limit and let that the random mechanism gives out its verdict.
From balance point of view, I can raise the triarii cost without any problems; I'd like to change the mod not for an easy win but for a better unit representation.

I'm also working on your suggestion in my mod: "Absolute Ermor". : no more censor/lictor capital only.

But to do this and to do other feature, I have the need to understand how is possible to create a magic site that is not a starting site but that is searchable only by unit of a given nation (ermor in the case).

I've put a thread on this argument, any help would be appreciate.

I've created a new unit: equites; I'm working on a special site "Colliseum" with interesting characteristis.

I'm also working on other new units: the aedile, a bureaucratic unit poor leader but that gives some asvantage in gold handle and the praetor able to aminister the civil law, si in the game trasposition has the properties to lower the unrest level .

Regards,
FOsforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

[quote=fosforo;721831]Other than patrol bonus, no upkeep for that unit and unrest reduction, how would the aedile gives some asdvantage in gold handle?

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

[quote=Sombre;721833]If I remember well the mod instructions, a commander unit can produce some gold or resources; so the aedile gives a little income per turn.

Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

I don't think you remember well.

They can produce gems. They can spawn units. They can't give you gold or resources.

Sites can give you gold or resources. Maybe you're thinking of those.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Re: Equites - why don't you take a look at *EA* Ermor - it might have what you're looking for. I honestly don't find equites very thematic, since the Roman empire had very few mounted troops, all barbarians. Also, no one would object too much if you buffed EA Ermor a little bit.

MA Ermor is like the Roman Empire during its fall. The legion is in shambles, not the proud institution of an earlier era.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

I agree with your distinction, but the equstrian order was an important part of the roman army (composed by the top social class in Roman society), from the republic era to the later imperial era (400 AD), in some manner we can consider it an invariant element in the -otherwise - very changeable army composition.

Thanks for your opinion,
Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Unfortunately for me, you're right. I've made mistake with instructions of the nation/magic site section.

So not more aedile? Or simply a poorly interesting supply bonus?

Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

I also don't believe it's possible to "create a magic site that is not a starting site but that is searchable only by unit of a given nation (ermor in the case)."

It's a neat idea, but I don't think it can be done.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Exactly, it's strangely not possible. But it seems easy to implement, maybe in a future patch...

Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Doesn't seem strange that isn't moddable. That's pretty different from anything we currently have. It isn't like it's something that's already in the base game, after all.

If you think that's an obvious one that should be in our modding capability, get used to being disappointed, because dom3 modding is actually pretty limited. The reason it has an active community is that it's easy. There's also a whole load of stuff on the mod command wishlist which would come ahead of something like that, if we did get a patch.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Fosforo,

I agree with your take on it, so I changed all my Triarii to #startage 43. That seems to be a sweet spot to get some old age ones but mainly around 48ish in age. I also changed my Censors and Lictors to recruit anywhere and I am probably going to beef the lictor up a little more.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

I did the same thing: 43. My two games was more funny and finally I had the opportunity to use triarii.

I also switched Censor (cost lifted to 50 from modded 30) and Lictor to recruit anywhere. Finally, to rebalance the quantity of troops cap only, I have created a nes site: colosseum (starting and uniqe site) where is possibile to recruit retiarius and gladiator, so they become cap only. Therefore, the colloseum grants 8 gold per turn to simulate in some manner the income effect of the gladiator games.

How can you modify the temple of dead attributes? I had many problems to delete the censor/lictor attributes. Can you post me the #selecnation ... #endslect script.

Thanks, I'm happy to find an other promotive of the "rerjuvenate triarii" group :D

Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Lictor: probably a nice and realistic addition can be a little unrest bonus.

Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

That would be used more for raiding than anything. Unless you mean reduce unrest.

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

I'm at work right now so I will try to tell you from memory:

I created a new site called "Temple of the Vestals"
That site was something like:

#newsite (Blank slot)
#name "Temple of the Vestals"
#path 5
#level 0
#rarity 5
#homemon (Vestal ID number)
#gems 5 5
#end

Then in the nation I did something like:

#addrecunit "censor number (Or lictor, whichever is the unit)
#addreccom "The other guy's ID number"


#clearsites
#startsite "Temple of the Vestals"
#startsite "Temple of the Spheres"
#end

DISCLAIMER: All the code above is completely from memory, so the commands may be wrong, but should be pretty close. You can get the ID number with shift+I with the unit's card selected in game.

I hope that helps :).

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Ok, you've create a new site; I instead moidify the old site Temple of Dead. It seems not more stable because is difficult to overwrite the previuos attributes: if you change the instructions order the game swhos incogruent results like "4 gem production" duplication or hte return of censor though not more contained in the mod file , so probably I'll choose your solution: new site and not modify of existing one. Thanks.

Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

Surely, I mean reduce of unrest, sorry but my english is originated only from many years of marvel comics reading :smirk:

Fosforo

Re: The triarii have to rejuvenate! (CBM 1.6)
 

You could modify the existing one by pushing the attributes out by making 5 of your own, but I find it much easier and more reliable to just make a new site.