Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

Being recently reminded of my old heydays in Diplomacy PBM, I would like to find out if there would be interest in a sort of Survivor MP.

8 players join the game. This type of game really requires an admin who is not a player himself, so an admin would be needed too.

If at any time one player holds 6 or more capitals, then he is declared the winner. Starting with (for example) turn 20 (in Diplamacy PBM the first vote was after two years of playing) players have to vote (every 10 turns) for a player to be booted out from the game. The players send their votes in secret to the admin, who tallies up the votes and then makes them public (so everybody gets to see who voted who). The nation whose player got voted out is set to AI. If the voting goes on so that there are just two players are left, the six players who have been kicked out vote for the winner of the game (if neither player gets 4 votes, the game continues for 10 turns and a new vote is taken unless either has been able to take 6 capitals of course).

Failure to submit a vote would mean the player is automatically booted out (ie the votes are not tallied, but the player who didn't submit a vote gets the boot instead automatically).


This type of a game would certainly not be for everybody. At least in Diploamcy much drama did follow after the player in the leading position was voted out, and I would presume same would happen in here.

Maybe some sort of an "immunity" could be available for the first three voting rounds. Maybe based on the score-graphs (for example, players leading the score in dominion (this is the game called Dominions, after all :) ) would be immune during the first three votes (it can be different player on different rounds of course, depending who leads the Dominion score)), or maybe some province on the map would provide the immunity, or perhaps being the current holder of the Arena champion would make you immune. Voting rules could also be in effect, for example in Diplomacy it was customary in these type of games to not be allowed to vote twice on row the same player (and if you did vote twice in row same player, you got treated as if you hadn't voted at all, ie booted out).



Now, would there be interest in such a game? If there would be, some definite rules would have to be hammered out (because if the rules are a bit fluffy, lots of tears will be the result).

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

This would lead to the leader, or at least the top player without immunity, being voted out. I would assign each capital 1 vote, so players who were doing well had a better shot at remaining.

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

Interesting. Worth adding to the game variants thread.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35083

It will grate on the people who prefer "proof of strategy" games only in Dom3 since some dont seem to consider diplomacy to be a strategy.
But I can see various strategies.

A) do I turn my neighbor AI because Im ready to rush him?
B) or do I turn the leader AI before they get too powerful?
C) do I let the leader get more powerful and THEN turn him AI?
D) do I buy a safety for myself from my neighbor?
E) do I buy votes to swing things the way I want it to go?
F) do I sell my vote?

Hmmm... come to think of it. This isnt too much different than games now. Its just faster. But in other games some of the same strategies happen. Just change "vote" to "NAP"

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

I would sig up to that kind of game.
The holder of the arena being immune is good.
Additionally there can be a rule that only indy unequipped nomage commanders are eligible to be sent to the first arena match.
Later arena contenders can use 1 item to match the latest winner.

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

Good idea :)

Maybe the immunity could be based on Dominions scale until first Arena happens (if ever). Limiting the Arena participiants might be problematic if there are any AI nations around by the time, and thus I'd not be too keen to limit that (besides, the more rules there are to follow means somebody might accidently break the rules, and all sorts of hassle would follow).

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

I like the arena idea. Arena needs a reason to exist. But isn't it too random? I'm in a few games in turn 30+ with no calls to the arena yet. If the frequency can be upped that might work.

If not, there are lots of categories to base it on. If the game admin is not a player, why not have him roll a random die for immunity based on the leader in in the following catgories:

1)Province count
2)Dominion
3)Army size
4)Research
5)#of caps held
6)arena champ (if any)

Random roll made one turn before voting, so nobody knows until then who might get immunity.

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

Hmm. I think a major problem here is that you're actively inserting the AI into a game and generally speaking people don't want to play with the AI. Having the player stale out forever, or even for a limited time would be equally bad though.

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

Good idea!

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

In fact, if the same goes in Dominions as did in Diplomacy on these sort of games, the "you are automatically booted out if you don't vote" rule hits suprisingly often. When people are not arsed enough to even send a simple vote, then they deserve IMO to be kicked out from the game. However, the possibility for somebody to be voted out could make the game much more intense, as Gandlaf above points out, with various "underhand" dealings going on.

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

lol. this would be a really weird game. airdrops all happen on turns that end in 1's. there definitly needs to be a whining rule. lol. sounds kinda hilarious

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

For some reason its reminding me of my musical chairs variation. A blitz game where the last .2h sent on each turn is automatically staled. 3 stales and your out.

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

I'd play

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

You could have a single superprovince for the admin to submit turns from, and have him Wish for the arena deathmatch whenever was appropriate. He could also wish for a bunch of non-unique SCs (or have some other mechanic) that could airdrop in and take all lands of a player that was voted off. it'd be a little bit of scripting for the admin but you'd set up pretender + magic sites so that it wouldn't be too bad.

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

That sounds like what the Watcher mod was for. To allow the game admin a secret place in the game to do things that the game doesnt allow us to add. Basically to duplicate most of the events in the game but less randomly, and expand on that.

The things you mention arent specifically in it but would be easy to look at the mod and add those. Mostly it tries to add a "player" with very little impact on the game but lots of ways to watch and affect it.

One hint in using it:
the game automatically numbers provinces from bottom left to upper right (by pixels which is why it seems random to some people). On any map, if you add one white dot to the farthest upper-right corner then you will get an unattached province with the number of whatever-it-was+1. Putting the watcher nation there works nicely. And if you turn on --comptrn in the game then you can view the turn files of all AI players which is useful also.

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

Good suggestions so far :)

I'll be so bold as to suggest a rule-set for a potential survivor game (I would be the admin, unless there is somebody else with a terrible urge to admin a game like this). Please do comment these so that they could be improved :)


1) The game has 8 players and 1 admin. A "Watcher" mod would be ideal, and have the admin thus as the "watcher" player in the game.

2) If at any time one player holds 6 or more capitals, then he is declared the ultimate Survivor and the winner of the game!

3) Starting with turn 20 players have to vote (every 10 turns) for a player to be booted out from the game. The players send their votes in secret (by PM through Shrapnel forums) to the admin, who tallies up the votes and then makes them public (so everybody gets to see who voted who).

3a) The voting happens after the results of a turn ending in 0 are in. If the admin is a "watcher" in the game, he should remind players of the vote through in game messages.

3b) Each player has half a vote for each capital they control, rounded up. This means holding one or two capitals give you one vote, holding three or four capitals give you two votes, and holding five gives you three votes.

3c) The player who recieves most votes is set to AI. If two (or more) players recieves same number of votes the votes given in previous rounds act as tiebreaker. If even the tiebreaker votes does not make any difference, then nobody is booted out this round.

3d) If a player does not submit a vote, then such players are booted out of the game instead, and the vote results are not made public.

4) Immunity. FOr each round of voting an immunity is handed out. Note that the immunity may go to a nation set to AI, in which case non of the players get the immunity. Votes given to an immune nation are disregarded.

4a) Immunity is awarded on turns ending in 9, ie one turn before the voting.

4b) If there is an Arena champion, the admin rolls a six sided die. On a result of 1-3 the immunity is awarded to the nation holding the Arena champion. On a result of 4-6 the Immunity is awarded to the the nation with highest current Dominion score on this turn.

4c) If there is no current Arena champion the admin rolls a six sided die. On a result of 1-2 the immunity is awarded to the player with highest Research score on this turn. On a result of 3-4 the immunity is awarded to the nation with *least* number of provinces on this turn. On a result of 5-6 the immunity is awarded to the nation with highest Dominion score on this turn.

5) If there are only two players left (and neither have 6 capitals), the voted out players form a jury and vote for the winner of the game (on turns ending on 0, when the results of the orders are in). Each of the six jury members have one vote each. If either of the players recieve *four* votes from the jury, that player is declared the ultimate Survivor and thus the winner of the game!

Re: Survivor, a discussion on a MP game concept
 

Starting to sound well laid out. As usual, my mod has been redone in a better version. So along with the Watcher mod you might want to look at the Game Master mod by Vladikus