phoenix pretender problems
 

It looks very, really very cool when you see what it does on a battlefield.

But it ends the same all the time:

1.It gets 1-2 affictions very fast.
2.It dies.

The strategy I tried all the time was the same - air shield, hold hold hold attack rear, hoping to kill commander.

Logic says to me that probably some reinvigoration staff and minor NE blesses should improve situation alittle. Maybe ring of regen.But it is not fast, as some items should be researched first and it makes Phoenix unusable for initial expansion.

But items will be lost and any nature/earth bless is very expencive.


Could someone tell me how to use it properly? I know some people use it.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Usually i use it as F/A caster for battlespells and forging, i think the phoenix is too weak as conquering god.
Maybe you can put it behind some heavy armored soldier for fire flies spam but inever tried.
Don't worry about afflictions, they will heal over time

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

The way to use a Phoenix for early expansion is to boost it to high fire or air magic, research evocation up to whatever you need and then go to town within own dominion. Just fire darts will seriously ruin the day for any indies that have a significant number of units without shields (archers, slingers, some militia etc). Stand back and keep raining fire and you'll get results. Best send the phoenix naked, since it will be killed.

The immortal's afflictions will disappear over time, that is one function of immortality.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Never end the Phoenix's script with 'Attack', since he has an awful attack. Unless you are trying to target a specific enemy group, such as Archers. But I find that's not needed for solo Indy expansion. Instead always end it with 'Cast Spells'.

Try the following which is based on just researching Evo1 and Alt2. You can upgrade (or add) spells as you research them. (for a typical F4A4 Phoenix).

1 - Arrow Fend
2 - Mirror Image (swap for Mistform when Alt3)
3 - Attack One Turn
4 - Burning Hands (swap for Shock Wave when Evo2)
5 - Burning Hands (swap for Shock Wave when Evo2)
End - Cast Spells

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

I assume by "dies" you mean he pops back to your capital with a few afflictions?

Also, its possible to use the phoenix as a solo turn 2 expansion god so long as you target indies w/low armor and semi-small numbers. However, you're depending on the RNG to a certain extent, so results can vary wildly.

A phoenix is also a good F*%& YOU pretender when someone w/a SC pretender or double blessed sacreds comes knocking, since there's very little they can really do besides take the hits.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

The Phoenix loses a level from each path when it dies, though, right? Which makes it problematic to let it die repeatedly.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Not if it dies in its own dominion. It gets the standard immortal reincarnation.

If it dies in hostile dominion and you "call god" it back, then yes, it loses paths.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

I have to disagree with almost all of the advice given in this thread under CBM.

The pretender is a GREAT chassis for early expansion.
I do agree that you don't end it with attack orders (usually).
I try to end it with Staybehind.

I never give items to the phoenix.
I never end with cast spells. Spells are generally inferior to just blowing up with phoenix pyre. The fatigue from spells will kill you. Having e2 can be useful.

Usually I stay in the far lower corner with Holdx5 Stay. If there are archers of any flavor it will be airshield Holdx4 stay.

If there are almost all archers, it will be AirShield, attack hold hold hold stay.

Only attack *in dominion*.

It is very useful to prophetize your scout, so that you can spread dominion surreptiously. (ie before conquest). Use the flying ability of the phoenix to pick and choose weak indies.
Build scouts to keep a good list of potential targets.

Try to use the phoenix as an adjunct to usual expansion - ie., let your normal troops take areas close to your capitol when possible.

the phoenix does well against:
provinces with multiple troop types (with different AP esp.)
small numbers of troops.
High encumbrance troops.

A phoenixes dominion is so low that Awe is expensive. However, it helps a great deal in increasing the territory choices, and due to the number of HP of the phoenix can slow the rate of death. That, plus the awe, can let it win a few more types of battles, such as low morale troops. (Even berserckers occassionally.)

the trick with the phoenix is enemy selection. you need to be winning 2/3 fights against indies or the selection probably isn't worthwhile.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Thanks,chrispedersen's but what's "Having e2 can be useful. "?
What is e2?

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Earth 2. That is, two points of Earth.

For future reference:
F = Fire
A = Air
W = Water
E = Earth
S = Astral
N = Nature
D = Death
B = Blood

Note that "A" is "Air" and "S" is "Astral". Few things are as confusing when people start using "A" as "Astral".

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Yes, that's what I trhough first. I'm just doing my Phoenix now for EA C`tis. What I like in Phoenix, is it's like a gun.. You just shoot him into some province, and even if he doesn't kill all, he kills part of defenders. You just reload the gun and shoot again.. And it's without risks to loose it! It looks for me better then Wyrm now. You can attack heavy cavalary, dark vines to kill slaves... And wyrm (which I like a lot) requires dom 9-10, ther is no magic on him, and you get your afflictions earlier or later, and useless in mid/endgame.

What I also like is no need to have high dominion for AWE , which is requirement for other SC gods (yes, I've read pluses to have it, but still I think it's not necessary).

Ctis are very limited in magic until conj 7-8-9, so I'm thinking how to spend points properly - and one of alternative builds was a4f4e4 phoenix.I'm planning to rush to cons 4 for research skulls and then - to conj8/cons8 with some minor research in other fields to make phoenix a bit more effective.

1. The current build assumes also o3s1h3d1L0M3 dom4 a4f4e4 phoenix, or
2. alternate o3s1h3d1L1M1 dome 3 with adding a4f4e4W4 to phoenix.
3. The third one in consideration is just F4A4 phoenix with all other points invested into magic and growth.

The question why I asked why E2, is very high cost of a new path for phoenix, and if you take E2 it's quite tempting to take E4.

I'm not planning buying a lot of sacred units, but bless could be useful for summons, and site searching would also be a dream.

What would be your thoughts, for EA Ctis? I didn't sleep well yesterday. Too much of mind infection from this game :)

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Summon Earthpower.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

I think that when using phoenix pretender for expansion, you want him to explode and kill indies that way, so you shouldn't cast spells with him in order to acquire fatigue slower. But he can only take on weaker provinces.

With EA Ctis I'd take S and E on my pretender, since that's what they lack. You can do for example a dormant mother of rivers (or whatever she's called - the W2 titan pretender) with W9S5E3 and expand using sacreds who are really nice with a W9 bless. Chariots are also nice and you can expand with just them, although a bit slower in the start, not needing an awake pretender or bless, so you can spend the points better.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Psycho, I agree that fatigue should be spent on in-battle rebirth rather then spell casting,that's why I hold xx and attack. As for bless - I would support this idea if they had no chariots, which are very good, plus I just want some diversity - I play several games, and in many with strong bless, but there nations are bless nations.

The only thing I'm strongly disagree - "But he can only take on weaker provinces." When you are expanding solo, your biggest problem is not death of pretender (which can be avoided by avoiding heavy cavalry, dark vines, etc), but getting affictions. And here immortal pretender is much safer. Especially when you strategically need to get some heavy protected privince. Phoenix is the only pretender you can use in early game to soften it.

The situation when Phoenix is not the best - on medium provinces, where he can loose extra turn, and provinces with no friendly dominion, which still could be taken by stronger pretender, especially with awe.

But really, for the price of phoenix without real need to get high dominion to get those expensive AWEs you will not find anything even close by effect.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

I use awake Phoenix sometimes. I found that putting death 5 or more on it makes a lot of sense.

1. You get fear/awe innate combo, which makes it last much longer in melee. (remember CBM phoenix has awe even without high dom, awe +3 with dom 10)
2. You can script frighten after airshield from turn 1, in combination with fear that makes the indies rout after fewer explosions. I found this makes a key difference in expansion.
3. You get soulvortex/phoenix pyre combo in midgame, as addition to mistform, fire shield etc. That makes it a powerful defensive grenade in dominion and lets him stay on cast spells without fatiguing out.
4. A cloud trapezing immortal with high death, air and fire isn't the worst support in lategame, not to speak of just having powerful death access.

If I put on any equipment it would be a ring of regen to keep afflictions down, perhaps horror helmet for extra fear and some ring of appropriate resistance. But I never do that until I have soul vortex so my phoenix actually survives most battles.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Ooooh! Never thought of D5 and soul-vortex on Phoenix. Now *that* does sound nasty! :) Does the vortex hold through phoenix explosions too?

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Yes, vortex idea sounds nasty, a lot of synergy with need of fatigue recovery for explosions.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

Yeah, it'll hold. The phoenix will keep dying, draining life and coming back as long as the fatigue doesn't get too high. So they can be made pretty nasty.

Re: phoenix pretender problems
 

It does. But d5+(for fear and also to keep fatigue from SV buffing low) and mistform is cruical here, since you really need to last long enough to suck up enough fatigue after each death. D3 isn't enough.

A particulary nasty script I found is:
mistform/soul vortex/drain life x2(drops buffing fatigue back to 0 or close)/attack/cast spells

You'll pick up drain life on your way to soul vortex anyway.