YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [7/24 players left]
 

Yet Another RAND Game (YARG) II

To first YARG players: hope you had fun and are ready for more.
To newcomers: This is a RAND game. So no diplomacy whatsoever. No posting here your identity, your nation or giving clues as to what your ID is. Nations are assigned randomly.

I'm maintaining the game thread, I'll be creating the game on the server and starting it but all the admin. work during the game will be carried out by the esteemed and selfless rdonj.
I repeat, during the game I'm stepping back and will be just another player. Don't PM me re. admin. stuff. Only PM rdonj!

At this point the game is open for both sign-up and discussion.
Some of the settings are open for discussion, the rest are fixed and will have bold font.

Map: Glory of the gods (multilayer version)
Calahan has graciously agreed to apply some fixes based on first YARG lessons.
Hosting Pace: First 15 turns every 24h, turns 15-30 48h, turn 30-45 72h, turn 45-60 96h, turn > 61 120h.
Considerate extension giving policy.
Hosting is planned for busy ppl.
Mods: CBM1.6
Renaming: off
Research: difficult
Graphs: on
HoF: 15
Indies: 9
Disallowed exploits: copying Bogus' orders and overfilling enemy lab to prevent his own forge.
Killing own mages under Ankh or LaD to gain freebe mages and troops. It's ok in a battle but it's not ok to set it up on purpose (whoever likes to do it knows what I'm talking about)
Probing armies with scouts/commanders must be done in such a way so as not to block movement (Added after game start so does not strictly apply to this game - will apply to next YARG)

Era: EA
Nations: all, 24.
Victory condition: 10 VPs. Each capital has 1 VP.
Pretenders should be given nations name!
This is to prevent unintentional disclosure of player ID.
i.e. If you play Agartha you call your pretender Agartha. That's it, no games please.

re. nation assignment. I can ask Zeldor again (if he'll agree and if he ain't interested in participating)
repeat, rdonj will admin.


-> For those who are not familiar with the term RAND.
RAND - Random Anonymous No Diplomacy.
Nations are assigned randomly.
Player's Identity is kept hidden.
Diplomacy or any form of communication is not allowed and is considered cheating.
-> After all players sign-up we shall wait a week for pretender creation. Then we start the game.
-> Please refrain from sending any in-game messages. Also, don't post here anything that can reveal information regarding you or other nations. No diplomacy or communications of any kind is allowed between players.
If you lose your identity is revealed. This is part of the fun in the game, guessing and 2nd guessing who is who until ppl start falling. If you do lose, please also refrain from posting anything with information on the game.
-> Please honor the warrior spirit of this game. No turning AI after a few defeats please. Try to fight as best you can for as long as you can. If RL prevents you from playing please contact the admin to find a sub
-> As Calahan said: "note in the OP regarding what happens if you break the rules of a RAND game. ie. Zero tolerance. Since I remember we had one early incident in YARG1 of someone communicating, so probably a good idea to clarify what happens if anyone attempts that again here." I can't put it any better than that. You send a message, item or whatever to another player and you're out. That's a big red NO NO, please make sure to keep shut any communication channels to other players re. the game.


Players:
1. Dimaz, Leader of Yomi, defeated on turn 38
2. Clahan, Leader of Ctis, defeated on turn 73
3. WraithLord
4. WingedDog
5. Isokron, Leader of Atlantis, defeated on turn 90
6. Slobby
7. Alpine Joe, subbed by ???
8. TwoBits, Leader of Kailasa, defeated on turn 79
9. Squirrelloid, Leader of Agartha, defeated on turn 55
10. Frozen Lama/PriestyMan, Leader of Mictlan, defeated on turn 87
11. Agusti
12. Don Pablo
13. Danbo, Leader of Hinnom, defeated on turn 54
14. LumenPlacidum, with a temporary subbing by ferrosol, Leader of Pangaea, defeated on turn 58
15. Psycho
16. yandav, Leader of Lanka, defeated on turn 46
17. Graeme Dice, Leader of Oceania, defeated on turn 39
18. ghoul31, Leader of helheim, defeated on turn 66
19. Rytek, Leader of Sauromatia, defeated on turn 68
20. Lingchih, Leader of Caelumm, defeated on turn 51
21. GameExtremist, Leader of Vanheim, defeated on turn 50
22. Aethyr, Leader of Abysia, defeated on turn 84
23. Stagger Lee, Leader of Niefelheim, defeated on turn 39
24. Kheldron, Leader of Marverni, defeated on turn 35

Gentleman, once all players know their assignments the clock starts to tick. We'll give one week to play and experiment with builds. After that we're a go. The game will start on Sunday 4th of April. I'll create it on the server once Calahan is happy with his fixes to the map.
The game map, Alexander, was fixed by Calahan. If you wish you can d/l his map from the thread and test it for possible errors as well.

Re: YARG2 , EA RAND game [Enlisting 10/24]
 

Sounds interesting. Sign me up!

Re: YARG2 , EA RAND game [Enlisting 10/24]
 

Me too, please.:)

Re: YARG2 , EA RAND game [Enlisting 10/24]
 

Interested!
Sign me up please:)

Re: YARG2 , EA RAND game [Enlisting 10/24]
 

I'm sorry If I wasn't clear about this: the game is mainly meant for veteran players. Please understand that the major difference in competence due to lack of experience unbalances the game.

So if you have solid MP playing experience, I don't know, like played at least 15 MP games, are not in 5 other games ATM and planing to stick it out with us then that's ok. Otherwise please start by playing a few newb MP games to get some experience.

In that light, Penguin Zero, Agusti & don_Pablo, where do you stand?

Re: YARG2 , Vets EA RAND game [Enlisting 10/24]
 

I don't think you're gonna get 24 experienced players for a game ever, Wraith. We all know that that's way too many people for one game by this point, especially on that gigantoid map. =)

Re: YARG2 , Vets EA RAND game [Enlisting 10/24]
 

Micah, what do you suggest?

Re: YARG2 , Vets EA RAND game [Enlisting 10/24]
 

Well, I've played around 10-12 MP games and right now I'm playing and hosting some games, so I think I could say that I'm an intermediate player. It's difficult to be a veteran in this game.

Don Pablo and me are having a good fight in one of them (hi Don Pablo), btw.

If you don't have 24 veteran players, then please sign me up, ok?:)

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 12/24]
 

Micah is right. There are two directions from here, either a- go for less players, smaller map. or b- relax the requirement

There are enough small scale vet only games so I'm leaning towards option b. I still think totally green newbs shouldn't join the game but if you consider yourself an intermediate player, have a few MP games under your belt and are willing to play with us and not bail out on the first sign of trouble then that's ok, you can join.


Penguin Zero, what would you say is your experience level?

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 12/24]
 

There was smth strange with my first account so I had to create new.
I've played ~30mp games. One of the first was Qwerty where you kicked me out quickly. I hope I learnt a lot since then )

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 12/24]
 

Qwerty?- Wow, were you by chance Machaka?

Anyway, glad to have you both aboard.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 13/24]
 

Good. Thank you ;)

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 13/24]
 

I'd be happy to join though I'm not a seasoned veteran.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 13/24]
 

Ah, not a seasoned veteran yet; still sort of flounder around when it comes to the actual process of strategically eviscerating someone. Good luck, all. Was a great pleasure to be casually swept aside in YARG the first :P

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 13/24]
 

I'll play

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 13/24]
 

What is your experience level?- You don't have to be a seasoned vet. as I said: "if you consider yourself an intermediate player, have a few MP games under your belt and are willing to play with us and not bail out on the first sign of trouble then that's ok, you can join."

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 15/24]
 

Good news. Zeldor has agreed to roll the nations for us so we have that corner covered.

LumenPlacidum, I don't think anyone will dispute that you did a fine job in YARG. Welcome to the 2nd round :)

Psycho glad to have you aboard.

IMO we have a nice mix of players so far.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 15/24]
 

I definitely qualify as a noob at this point -- I'll withdraw my application. Best of luck to the rest of you!

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 13/24]
 

Well, your description above fits me well: I have a few MP games under my belt and I'm not a quitter.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 15/24]
 

I'll join.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 15/24]
 

I'll join

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 15/24]
 

sign me up please.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 15/24]
 

Yeah, I need a new game. I'll sign up.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Welcome :)

Wow the vacant spots are filling real fast. Last four remain.

Calahan: Do you have any update or ETA re. your fixes?- No hurry, just asking...

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

@ WraithL - Hope to have the map done by the weekend. With luck towards the start of it, without luck it'll be more towards Sunday evening (GMT).

Also, how set in stone are you regarding the map, and the use of capital VP's? (since notice they are both in bold text in the OP)

Map wise - Glory of the Gods always seems a tricky one to balance due to the large number of wastes and swamps. Plus fitting 21 land nations into 227 provinces will be a bit of a squeeze (especially if I'm trying to avoid nations starting on or near swamps and wastes). So some areas, such as the South East, might see nations start closer together and with less provinces on offer, since they have the water provinces on offer for extra expansion provinces (since all water nations will be in the West sea). If I learn how to, maybe I can look into boosting a few swamp and waste starters by adding the odd gold and/or resource mine. Since I think it will be difficult to avoid all the bad start locations with so many nations.

Had a quick look around for other maps yesterday, and 'Asia Twist' and 'Alexander' both seem so offer a bit more scope with regards balanced terrain, a few more provinces per nation (although that is of course both good and bad), and the added bonus of both maps being wraparounds. Asia Twist also looks like it weighs in at an attractive looking 12-13 provinces per Land + Water nation. With the Alexander province split being 11-12 Land, 14-15 Water. Alexander (no sites) has always seemed a reasonably good map to me from the games I've played on it. Have no experience at all with the Asia Twist map though.


Capital VP wise - Mentioned in the YARG1 thread that for my other previous map editing effort, I tried to avoid having fixed start locations in favour of starting zones. Designed entirely to hide the exact location of each nations capital, so that rushing is a bit more difficult, and also harder to spell spam capitals (since you have to at least find them first!!). But obviously, there's absolutely no point me doing that if the capitals are being marked with VP's.


All the above is entirely your call though WraithL. Just point me in the direction of the map you want, and I'll do what I can to balance it for a full complement of EA nations.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Well, Both AT and Alexander are good maps. The thing is they're even bigger than GotG. The end game can be nightmarish. Perhaps this can be offset by lowering VPs required for victory to 9 (like in YARG).

Now if we opt for AT or Alexander then there's no need for you to do balance fixes, right?- If so, then I'm in favor of your idea. No need to spend time on further fixes to GotG.

As for which to choose, both are good and I've only a slight preference to Alexander. Maybe we can vote for the map, so each player name which of the both he prefers.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

@ WraithL - I think Alexander will still need work as I'm not sure how many nations the default map is balanced for, but pretty certain it isn't a full 24 (although more than happy to be wrong on this one :)). But any map will have this problem since don't think I've ever seen a 250-300 province map designed for 24 nations. (someone please shout out now if one does exist somewhere).

Totally with you on more provinces equalling more nightmarish lategame. But all three map are in the same 270-300 ballpark. Personally I'm easy between Alexander and Asia Twist, but I hate fence sitting, so if there's a vote I'll go for Alexander(no sites) just because it's a slightly smaller map, and I know from experience it plays reasonably well in MP. (but then all of Pasha's maps tend to do that. Thanks again Pasha btw for all your great maps).

I'll see how the votes are looking early tomorrow evening (GMT), and then hopefully start work on the map at the same time based on the votes. (subtle hint to WraithL to have the deadline for voting at 19:00GMT tomorrow :))

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

The deadline for map voting stands at 19:00GMT.
Make your choice, AsiaTwist or Alexander.

So far:
Alexander: 2
AsiaTwist: 0

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

I'd be interested in joining. Not a quitter, but I am fairly new to MP dominions.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Sorry, I must ask- how many Dom-3 MP games did you play?- more than five?

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

WraithLord: I've only played three so far, plus one that is ongoing. Have not played one with CBM yet. If that excludes me that's fine, I just thought I'd give it a shot - games on this forum fill up so quickly, I usually miss my chance.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Vote for Alexander. Asia twist has too many ports, it's hard to keep track what connects where.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Curious Yellow, hope to see you in a future game, perhaps YARG3 ;)

reminder, GotG requires far too much work to balance for 24 nations. we're currently voting for the game map:
The deadline for map voting stands at Friday, 19:00GMT.
Make your choice, AsiaTwist or Alexander.

So far:
Alexander: 3
AsiaTwist: 0

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

I'll abstain from map voting.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

I'll throw in a vote for Alexander

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Asia Twist

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

I like Alexander. I'll vote for it.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

alexander

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Asia Twist.

I'm tired from Alexander.
I played a lot of game on it and the only one on AT.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Asia Twist

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

I haven't played a single game on this maps, so I refrain from voting. They both are wraparound and that's what most important for me.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Me neither, so I'll pass on voting too. I'm sure I can make do with either :)

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Alexander.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

AsiaTwist vs. Alexander votes:
Alexander: 7
AsiaTwist: 3

abstain: 3

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 20/24]
 

Could you add me to the starting lineup please?

First yarg....should be interesting :)

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 22/24]
 

Oh heck, RAND games don't take much time, and if you're begging in Pasha's thread you clearly need the player. Sign me up.

My vote on map seems to be irrelevant.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 22/24]
 

What?- begging?- Yeah right.

The game's filling up real fast. So there's no need for you to do us this grand favor of joining ;)

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 22/24]
 

My balancing aims for the map starts will be....

- Land capitals to all have 4-5 adjoining provinces. If I can ensure a fair spread of terrain types then all the better. Where possible, if a capital only has 4 neighbours, I will try to ensure at least two of them are mountains or forests so that the capital has adequate resources.

- Water capitals to have 3 adjoining provinces. Very difficult to ensure more than 3, so seems fairest to me if all three water nations have 3 adjoining provinces.

- All Land capitals to be at least 3 provinces apart. ie. Cap-Indy-Indy-Indy-Cap. If I can get the capitals further apart then I certainly will, but 21 Land nations doesn't leave that much room with only a 12-13 ppn (province per nation) average, so need to be realistic. A wraparound map also constricts space available to work with, as it removes the option of putting nations in the corner.

I can't guarantee any of the above though, since I have no idea yet how my above aims will clash with the reality of the map that is eventually decided upon. But like I said, I will try my best to fulfil the aims mentioned.


Still a few hours left for voting, but so far Alexander looks to have a healthy lead. And with regards the Alexander map, and specifically the water nations ....

As it stands on the base map, the water provinces do not form a complete wraparound. So in effect the water is just a long elongated section, which means one water nation starting at each end, with the third having to be piggy-in-the-middle. Which probably means a short and tough life for said piggy. There is another area of water available, but on the base map it only covers 6 provinces, which just isn't enough.

Solutions and Options.....

There are a number of isolated water provinces on the map that are connected by rivers. These rivers do not allow movement though. So I could connect up these isolated water provinces to the main areas of water, and that would result in the 6 province water section becoming 9 provinces. Which when added to the "totally safe until midgame" factor for starting there, could just about make it borderline acceptable as a start location.

Another option is to do some map editing and along with opening up the rivers for movement, place an additional river on the map (if my artistic skills are up to it that is) to connect up provinces (266) - (5). This would result in all the main water provinces being connected, and provide a lot more scope for placement.

Another idea is to make the existing water provinces wraparound by, for example, connecting (265) with (68), which then means each water nation will be playing piggy to the other two. So nice and fair.

Or there's always "Who cares about all this rubbish, do what you like because water nation suck anyway no matter where they start" :)

I can and will use my own judgement of course, but thought I'd throw a few ideas out for feedback. Since balancing the water nations on Alexander does require some specific thought to ensure all three have a fairly equal fighting chance. (of getting their arse kicked once they step on land ;))

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 22/24]
 

Calahan, in your opinion, how bad is it, balance wise, if we go with vanilla Alexander?
Would be great if you find it possible to apply the pareto principal here, do 20% modifications to fix 80% of the perceived issues :)


IMO, the starting locs. don't have to be 100% identical as I find a small measure of variance in start. locs to add flavor to the game.

Re: YARG2 , Non-Newb EA RAND game [Enlisting 22/24]
 

Perhaps decrease VP's number required for victory to 9 to avoid lategame micromanagement hell?