EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

OCEANS OF LAND

Summary
-Map: Cradle of Dominion (already included in vanilla Dom3)
-Amount of players (max): 10
-Mods used: CBM 1.6 (Get it here!)
-Aim of the game: To let noobs get their feet wet in MP.
-Nations banned: Ryleh, Atlantis, Oceania, Helheim, Vanheim, Tir-na-nog, Niefelheim, Hinnom, Mictlan
-Turn processor: llamaserver
-Also please take a look through the Llama FAQ:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160
-Turn time start at 24hrs, accomodating for longer intervals when game progresses.
-Admins: Yskonyn, GrudgeBringer
-Who should join: Noobz, Internediate players, Vets who won't play agressively, but pose a helpful attitude towards the noobs in- as well as out of game.
-Who should NOT join: People looking for a no-holds-barred war, experienced players looking to win easily or agressively, people who definately want to play with nations that are banned; there will be no discussion.
-The game will have a master password
-Do NOT password protect your pretender to avoid problems when needing to sub a player.

-Diplomacy is allowed. Use PM on this forum or e-mail for inter-player contact, so be sure to enable private messaging in your profile! Use this thread for reports every player should or must know (like alliances or treaties).
A bit more on diplomacy; I am in favour of roleplaying when engaging in diplomacy, but I am aware there are lots of players who don't like RP, so this is not required. But it does create a nice setting and adds to the atmosphere.
Because we are playing with new people I think we need to have a few diplomacy rules. In my last game diplomacy turned out to be highly unreliable which was quite confusing for me, so let us abide by some simple rules:
1 - Allies are not to be backstabbed. If you want to attack your ally, you first have to break your alliance with that player before attacking. So this means there is a five turn buffer limit between declaring the end of the alliance and the first attack. This is to prevent the new players from being confused about what happened. And it gives the players' mind some rest about who to trust for now (see rule 3).
2 - On the matter of NAP's we need to keep it simple; IF the NAP is registered here on the forum it is binding. If you have secret agreements (ones not made public here on the forum) they can be broken at your own risk.
3 - This does NOT rule out deceit. You can still catch your victim quite unprepared, so deceitful acts are allowed, but remember to abide by rule 1 and 2 at all times. If there's some sort of disagreement between two players please contact me or Grudge.

To clarify a bit more about the simple rules of diplomacy concerning Alliance or NAP's:
Alliance: The 'buffer' I was talking about -in rule 1 above- was the amound of turns you cannot commence hostile action against the other player after you have broken an alliance.
So if you want to cease having an alliance with player X, you notify him or her, then the 5 turns start where you cannot attack player X so he has some time to prepare and settle for the broken alliance.

NAPs: You agree with the other player how you want your NAP and if its then registered on the forums its binding, if not you're on your own.
How many turns you want the NAP to hold is entirely up to the two players to decide amongst themselves.
In addition:
I thought if two players would agree on a NAP-5, for example, this was a non-agression pact for 5 turns. After this you either renew or you cease to have it.
It turns out that the most common use is different:
If two players agree on a NAP-5 those two players have a NAP until either of them cancel it, but then those 5 turns start where you are NOT allowed to attack still. Only after the 5 turns have passed you can commence hostilities.
For a NAP-3 this would be three turns and so on.

Players
1 - Marverni (Yskonyn)
2 - Arcosephale (GrudgeBringer)
3 - <TBD>Kailasa (13lackGu4rd)
4 - Caelum (Euarchus)
5 - C'tis (Swan)
6 - Yomi (Dark Kitty)
7 - Pangaea (SciencePro)
8 - Tien Chi (Silence0)
9 - Ermor (Doo)
0 - Sauromatia (earcaraxe)

Description
Oceans of Land - The vast possibilities that lie in these lands to lead your nation to greatness are endless. The Cradle of Dominion, as these lands are called, are a vast and diverse territory. There are 199 provinces to conquer and there are 22 sea regions. 'Oceans of Land' also hints at the one map rule of this game: no water colonization.

This game aims to provide a gaming evironment where noobs are able to try things with their nation and get to know the game a bit further without fear of being obliterated by good experienced players early on in the game.
Therefore we have decided to ban certain nations for balancing purposes (see above). Also water construction is not allowed, therefore all water dwelling nations belong in the banlist for this game. Agartha may still be chosen, but remember you cannot settle on water provinces.

Veteran players are accepted under certain conditions;
You do not plan to steamroll and wage war agressively right from the start of the game as this would defeat the 'introductory nature' of this game.
As a vet you may only choose a weak nation and you are expected to engage in tutoring or at least pose a helpful attitude towards the noobs. You are not in this game to win or show how much powertricks you know in Dom 3. Again, this game is aimed for noobs to get their feet wet.

Grudge is admin as well as me. He is experienced, but therefore plays as a weaker nation. He has been very helpful so far in aiding new players to get their bearings in Dom 3.

Glad to have you!</TBD>

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

wanna try Mictlan in a MP environment as opposed to SP.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

that is the oddest list of banned nations i have ever seen. you realize that TNN is probably in the top 5 weakest nations right? and you allow the heims, intermediate nations, yet allow mictlan and lanka? its your game, so i won't argue, just curious why

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

He didn't ban the heims. I think what he's doing is eliminating all the glamour nations to remove nations with strong stealth abilities. Of course, there's still a lot of other nations with stealth... here is where my logic breaks down :(

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

I agree with Frozen - I'd ban Lanka long before I banned Vanheim. And Banning TNN is hilarious.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

And No CBM.. it's quite risky..especially in peaceful environment.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

I meant he did ban the heims! Wow, screwed up there.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

No Cbm is an oversight, it will be included and Mictlan WAS banned just not listed...Abysia was on the bubble also depending on who took it...

His idea was to try and get noobs in and not have stealth or water nations..Lanka for a noob is hard to play so he left it in.

I think all those that think that his game is skewed in a direction are probably too good to play in it anyway....

Look guys..he started D&G and most of the noobs where gone in a flash, so he decided to make some balancing rules...they may not be the best but they aren't bad considering he is a noob himself.

And tir being weak is maybe laughable. but it is a stealth nation by definition so it is out. He will only take 4 vets and if he feels they will unbalance the game he will not accept them...C'mon guys, give him a break...he wants some vets but wants them playing weak nations to give the noobs some learning and test your prowess.

If you have any suggestions please make them known and he will consider them.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

It's a noob game. It's what it is and he set it up. It will play out in interesting ways. And Squirrelliod, Frozenlama, and rdonj. You guys just are NOT noobs. I'm a noob!

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Oh yeah! And Grudge is an evil player. He does evil things like honor and integrity. What the hell is Dom3 coming to if that kind of carp is allowed?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Can I have Caelum please?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

The thing with nations is quite difficult, chaps. On the one hand you don't want to ban too many nations, but on the other hand you want a game that stays running past 40 turns also. :)
So the banlist might not be what you would expect that does not mean things will work out that way too. Like Grudge said; veteran players are screened first and might not be allowed to play a certain nation, while a noob IS allowed to play that nation.
The banlist is merely a list of nations that NEITHER players are allowed to pick. And yes, Mictlan was an oversight.

The thing with stealth is that we currently banned all nations depending highly on stealth afaik and that includes TNN eventhough it might not be that powerful. This is for the sake of avoiding any arguments about stealth ("eventhough he has TNN -a weaker nation-, he STILL has stealth!"). See? The other side of the medal. That's what I wanted to avoid.

Wether to include CBM or not is up for debate still as far as I am concerned, David and Goliath was also played with Worthy Heroes and vanilla.
The ongoing discussion is wether you want noobs to play with vanilla first (and maybe a few small mods which don't alter gameplay too much) or get them into playing with the big often used mods right away.
I am in the 'go vanilla first' camp myself as I think you should first know how a game plays at its core to be able to understand what a mod has altered exactly. Reading a readme.txt or a changelog doesn't really help if you never saw it hands-on. But, like I said, this is up for debate and will always be. If the general wish for this game is to include CBM once we have players enlisted, we'll go CBM enabled.

EDIT Euarchus, welcome! You have been added to the list.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Well, just to weigh in my opinion - while stealth can be leveraged as a tool, it's not too good to warrant a banning of a nation. I realize that this is your game, and you make the rules, but ea van and tnn are quite weak nations. Helheim can be slightly more powerful due all the death magic you can get access to with national mages. I can see why such early game rush powers (especially since this is vanilla and not CBM game) such as mictlan, hinnom and niefelheim would be banned from the game.

I'd also like to inquire what "aggressive play style" for a vet means - it's considered quite normal to attack a weak(er) neighbor(s) to gain lands, gold&gem income and more land. I know that vets can do this much more efficiently and counter this much more efficiently than newbies/intermediate players, but the problem lies in that if you don't do that, you (usually) lose the game. Turtling might work for a few nations, but it'll almost always detriment your long-term game. Some nations are easier to deal in early/midgame with other nations, and they grow in power the later the game goes - eg. Kailasa and T'ien Ch'i and quite a few MA/LA nations which are not relevant here, as this is an EA game.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

well, ok, can't say I didn't expect Mictlan to be banned under these settings, but I saw it wasn't so I tried... but if you've banned stealth nations I'm surprised you left Pangaea out of the ban list, being perhaps the primary stealth nation out there...

also I've overlooked this being played on vanilla as opposed to CBM. if this remains vanilla than I'll take Kailasa instead of Mictlan, if CBM than Sauromatia(not on the ban list) instead. and of course of you do allow Mictlan after all than I'll have it.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

if 13lack gets sauromatia i would like the dying yet proud nation of agartha

if 13lack will not get sauramatia i would like the raptor riding ladies of sauramatia

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Thank you GB. like i said, its your game, play it how you want. i was just curious

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

I would like to play as Lanka please (or Yomi if Lanka was to be banned for some reason)

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Good to a see noob friendly game.

I agree with you Yskonyn on reasoning of vanilla for noobs. You can't appreciate the benefits or drawbacks of more drastic mods that make a multitude of changes to the game like CBM and others unless you first understand how the game is intended to play out of the box.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

I would like to join as abysia please. I'm not exactly a noob but i'm hardly a vet either. I am happy to be helpful and non-aggressive.

I would vote in favor of CBM for noobs or anybody. As a noob you are still learning the game and its annoying to learn things one way then have it change all of the sudden when you play a CBM game later. Also, in vanilla, people can stockpile clams or blood stones or something which really distorts the endgame.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

About the CBM vs vanilla: i would say lets play vanilla, i think we need to try how vanilla is in MP before using CBM. also the clam piling is doable but he best clammer, oceania, is banned.
Still i would play even if CBM is on

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

I'd be quite happy to play a nation like Kailasa if we're playing vanilla.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

I would agree with Swan. After all CBM is a mod and nothing says it won't get replaced by another one in few months. And then you would have to learn how high are the spells, what effets have some items, etc... again.

Vanilla still allows to learn the mechanics of the game, the effet of spells, some basic strategies, etc... which is probably the most important thing in a newbie game.

By the way, I would like to switch to Yomi.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Noob? Sounds like me...I would like to try tien chi...

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

actually in the interest of trying a new nation, can I play Pangea instead of abysia?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Scrap away the psychotic raptor ladies and the oversized worms, i'll lead the gloriawesome lizard empire of C'tis

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Personally, I also think that 'Vanilla' will soon be a thing of the past (or at least rare), and new guys should get used to what will be the 'norm'.

But I also think a vote should be taken once we have 10 and go with that.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Yeah, CBM isn't going anywhere soon. And has been going strong for quite a while now.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

First of all: thanks for showing interest in my little game! I hope the first post has listed the correct names/nations so far. If there's an error let me know. Welcome, all new rulers!

Graeme, I am affraid Kailasa is taken by 13lack. Mictlan was his first choice, but he had to change obviously due to the banlist. First come, first served I am afraid. I hope you dont mind.
As an experienced player you're more than welcome to join! As long as you're going to play a weaker nation just like Grudge.

Quitti, I understand you sentiments about playstyle and the need fo agressiveness in a game of Dom3, but there's a big difference in efficiency, like you pointed out yourself.
An experienced player will know exactly in how many steps he can make his warmachine running at full speed, whereas noobs have a more trial and error approach to their empire management.
Just like in realtime strategy games like C&C it's just not fun at all to get totally steamrolled over in the first minutes of a game.
Same goes here. In Civ 4, for example, many noob games restrict the vets from engaging outside of their influence zone. Only noobs may do so. That makes for a very nice environment where new players can experiment with tactics while at the same time fighting amongst themselves, but choosing which vet to take on. Great system and I am aiming for roughly something in that direction here, hence all the rules. I hope this makes it a bit more clear?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open 8/10]
 

Then if Kailasa is taken I'll play Abysia.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open]
 

Yes, very much so. Though, civ4 is quite different from dom3, but I guess see what you're after now, it puts vets into a kind of teacher-position in the game, not really giving much of a chance of victory except for allied one (if the game rules allow that), or by lifting the aggression rule at some point, say turn 35 or something, which is usually late midgame by then and first wars are already fought.

Still, the ban on stealth nation puzzles me somewhat. If newbies need to learn the game, they really should know that there is also stealth nations involved :) (Also, Pan and I think Ulm have stealthy troops so it's not a complete ban on stealth nations, but the 'usual' prime stealth nations, van and hel are there.)

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open 8/10]
 

I have not played MP before and would like to join.

Ermor if thats ok.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open 8/10]
 

Hi!

I would like to join with sauromatia.

i havent read all the posts here, but why is mictlan banned?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open 8/10]
 

I think that gives us 10

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open 8/10]
 

I guess once my spot is confirmed I upload a Pretender?

Can somebody confirm how to combine the CBM 1.6 and Worthy Heros 1.8 mods. CBM comes with I think WH 1.6? already, when I overwrite with WH 1.8 the game crashes.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open 8/10]
 

Welcome! We are now at 10 players! Much quicker than I had anticipated and to be the bringer of bad news already:

I am out of the country due to work from tuesday till thursday. I will be back thursday night, so I would like to suggest holding off kickoff until thursday or early friday.
It's a bit of a drag to wait this long, I agree, but I had anticipated to be waiting longer for the game to fill up. Crappy planning on my behalf I guess. :)

Doo, wait with the loading of mods for now. The CBM / non-CBM camp is quite divided at this time, so the best thing is to have a vote by our 10 players indicating what they would like to play. The majority will have the final say.
If we go CBM then there's no need for the seperate Worthy Heroes mod. If we go vanilla we do it with WH 1.8 as the sole mod.

I am aware that the first post needs updating with the latest players. So don't worry if you're not listed yet. I will update the post when I have sorted a few things here.

Quitti, I understand the seemingly awkwardness regarding the stealth nations, but it was my sentiment that we should at least ban the stealth 'dependent' nations, which does not rule out stealth as a whole in this game. Anyway we're up to 10 players and I think the nations are quite nicely chosen, don't you? Thanks for the feedback anyhow!

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

So we are voting for CBM/vanilla?
C'tis, land of eternal sand, declare: VANILLA

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Ermor, true followers of the New Faith say: Vanilla

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Marverni people vote for: Vanilla

Regarding the start delay I could also ask for a sub for the first few turns to do my bidding so we can start right away after all has been agreed upon.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

well, 3 votes for vanilla already, might as well vote for vanilla as well, and if it does get the majority than I'll stick to Kailasa.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [enlisting open 8/10]
 

Well, I'd disagree on the dependancy of stealth for those, but stealth can be very well leveraged with them. But good luck with the game, I shall not bother you anymore in this thread. Have fun!

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

The revered leader of the sauromatian tribe - having her people's blind confidence in victory- abstains from voting. :)

again: could u tell me why mictlan is banned?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

I switched to Yomi so a "first time player" could have Lanka, but if nobody wants it and if it is ok with everybody, I would like to switch back to Lanka (sorry for the changes of mind :o)

I would like to hold my vote until I see if there is more arguments in favor of CBM.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

I vote CBM - It seemed like such a necessity in this forum that I've never thought to play Vanilla. Also, my impression of CBM was that it was mainly about improving the gameplay by making more different strategies viable. This seems like a laudable aim.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

I change my vote to CBM. The reason is: i have the impression that CBM's aim is to improve gameplay (and i have the feeling that its quite successfull in it), and it is not any more difficult or more easy to play than vanilla.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

I vote CBM as it hinders exp players and won't hurt new players as they don't know the difference for the most part.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Mictlan was deemed to stong a nation as was niefl, Hinnom etc.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Well i've played most single player and even there i liked the overall cost reductions of almost everything in cbm so i guess i´ll vote for it... Vanilla is fun but lots of stuff(especially some really cool pretenders) just scream do not use me...

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

That makes the voting in favour of CBM. I am swayed. So be it. Everyone load up CBM via the link in the first post and be sure to remove Worthy Heroes v1.8 otherwise your game will crash!

Like I posted before, due to misanticipation of the attention for this game I have put us in a rather unfortunate spot; I have to go abroad from tuesday till late thursday, early friday without access to the game. We have two options:
One, we go ahead with preparations, upload our pretenders and then standby until I am back, so in this case the game will fire off on friday most likely, but as we all hate waiting the better option might be to start the game asap and then I request a temporary sub to fill in my turns on wed and thu.

I will open de game on Llama server in a few minutes, so everyone can upload their pretenders.
Remember to NOT put a password on your pretender to avoid problems when another players has to sub for you!

EDIT: Oceans_of_Land is created on Llama!

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

so, since we're going with CBM after all do I get my Sauromatia...?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

You get Kalisia as first asked for (see Pm I just sent). Welcome aboard!!