Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

I'm playing Caelum and flying archers are suppposed to be one of my (few) strong points. However, if I can't rely on them in battle then I have big problems.

I took an enemy's province, but suffered a bit more than expected. Out of my 80 archers, half were killed and the other half routed to the four winds.

Puzzle: My archers were given the "Fire at Closest Enemy" command but all of the sudden flew and attacked the rearmost/archers. Of course, the archers are crap in melee and got slaughtered - but why would they leave their position??? The enemy cast Rage a few times, but this happened to all my archers.

I have been told that it may be because the closest target was out of range or that my lead archer was injured/killed. Or do the gurus have another explanation?

Thanks, Jorus

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

if closest target was out of range(perhaps if you put your archers at the very back, or the enemy did) than your archers would have naturally tried to close the distance to their target. since Caelum's archers are flying than closing towards their target would instantly put them at melee range. so yes, that could very well be your problem.

P.S Caelum's strength isn't its archers but its mages, especially if you play EA cause the Eagle Kings are just beastly!

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

No, they would just move forward on foot if they are out of range. Probably the lead archer lost an arm.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

In order to close the distance to their target, I've actually noticed that flying archers prefer to hoof it closer. Not entirely sure why.

Aside from that, it's possible that your archers simply ran out of ammo and the guys they dropped onto were simply the closest squad to them that wasn't already routed. I've noticed archers with ammo change their targets when the one they were shooting at runs, so it's possible that something like that happened.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Tee hee hee, I have been "winding" Blackguard up :D

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

The most likely explanation is, as Psycho said, the first guy in the squad couldn't shoot for some reason. If the first guy doesn't have a ranged weapon, the AI thinks the whole squad doesn't and sends them all to close.

He may have lost an arm. Rage may have the same effect, but I've never seen it.
In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it except at the very beginning of battle, so it may only check once?

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Hmm interesting.

New modweapon. Ranged weapon that causes arm loss.
Something like.. "Flesh Reaper arrows..." Very cool against archers.....

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Thanks for all the feedback.
The archers flew to their demise on the 4th or 5th battle turn, so I don't think they were out of ammo.
If it was a broken arm or whatever, I guess it is a good idea to check your lead unit's health before going to battle - and give him another assignment or R&R.

Jorus

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

That... should be doable. And actually they'd be pretty awesome against everything, because every time they do damage, you lose your shield... ouch.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Except if you're a commander, you just tuck your shield under your armpit and carry on!

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Tis but a scratch! It's just a flesh wound, really!

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Hi, I'm really annoyed that I have to reactivate this thread, but the archers did it again. On their second turn they flew towards the enemy and halved the distance betweeen them, allowing the flagellants to close on their next turn and decimate the archers in melee.
I checked and there were plenty of enemies within 20 squares to shoot at, and their range is 30 so there was no need to get closer to "fire at closest enemy", their only order.
The archers were in two groups with different commanders, and both groups did the same thing. One squad had a leader (lowest ID#) that had a mild affliction, but the other aquad's leader was healthy. Both commanders were to stay behind tropps.
The only thing out of the ordinary was morale was low (6) for many of the troops due to hunger. But wouldn't low morale make them rout and flee away from the enemy?
I'm playing in two MP games as Caelum and I need the archers.

Any ideas? thanks - jorus

PS
Can you find a unit's ID on the battle screen?

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

sure, pull it up like normal (double click on him, and then shift i).

as for the flying archers... I have never been able to get them to work either.

For example, bogarus has a flying dragon with a ranged brreath weapon. For me it always flies up into melee range - and dies.


you could try this... place a commander .. wherever you want.
Give him a body guard.
tell the archers to stay behind troops. and place them behind the bodyguard.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Shift-I gets you the monster id, not the unit Id. As far as I know there's no way to actually see the unit ids. Anywhere.
You can figure out relative order, but not the actual numbers. I'm sure there's a connection between unit id and how the troops are initially positioned in formation, but I've never bothered to look into it.

You can't give troops stay behind troops orders.

I have not had the problem with flying archers. I've even been playing around with Caelum recently, though EA and thus mage rather than archer focused. But they've never done the suicidal charge.
In fact I've never seen flying archers fly to get closer. If they're out of range they walk forward.

Jorus, is this a MP game? Can you post the turn? Maybe someone can see how to make sense of it if they can actually see the fight.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

My tactic had been to have the commander stay behind archers with a few guards. There would be another commander with front line troops in front.

Yes, it is an MP game, no mods. I'll be happy to post the turn, how do I do that? Is it just attaching the trn file? Hmmm...it looks like I can't attach trn files, so how?

Jorus

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Attach it as a zip.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Go advanced, and click on the paperclip icon.

Edit: ninja'd, and probably with better advice.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Duh... :doh:

here it is, and if you can tell me why my mammoths couldn't wait to rout - that would be useful also!

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

You have the same situation again - the lead archer lost an arm and they all went into melee then. Your lead archer is unit with ID number 3986 - he is located in battle in the square up and left to the eagle king in the center. The second volley of TC arrows did him 5 damage and took his arm. Maybe try using some arrow catchers in battle.

The mammoths routed because half of them were killed (5 of 10), they have poor morale to start with and they were also starving.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

A few ways to improve mammoth morale.

1. Add undead.
2. Berserk them. touch of madness for example.
3. add large numbers of slow units. Moral checks only occur
when a threashold level of serious wounds occurs.

So if you have 10 mammoths in a group of 50 units, the mammoths will continue to receive the survivors moral benefit; additionally a higher number of wounds will be necessary to cause the morale check to happen.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Psycho
How do you know that ID? Do you run the game under debug options? Can we know the ID if there's no battle report?

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

A few more tricks.

Units in grouops of 3 or less get morale checks every round. Don't do it.

Also, if you have a group of 4, the lost of 1 will immediately put you in check. Whereas if you add 2, the loss of 1 will not result in a morale check.

Moral: pay attnetion to squad size and composition for morale.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

@ano: You have to run the game in debug mode to see the ID. You know which one is the lead unit by looking in the log - it says something like "Unr 3986 bla bla order 0", followed by something like "grouping other units bla bla" or some such.

@chris: I thought it was groups of 4 that get morale checks every round.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Psycho/Chrispedersen,

Thanks a lot for the analysis and suggestions. I could not see an archer losing an arm. I watched the battle a few times but could not figure it out, obviously I should use debug mode - how?
While I'm asking about utilities, is there a (good) battle simulator anywhere?

Thanks again, Jorus

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

You can see it in the normal battle replay.

XOO
OKO
OOO

K is the eagle king in the center of your army. X is the square with 2 archers - one of them is the lead archer. He starts the battle healthy. During second round the volley of TC arrows hits him, makes 5 damage and takes his arm.

Re: Flying Archers Gone Wild(ly Wrong)
 

Sorta thematic. "Wing me will ya!... Get 'em boys"
-ssj