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-   -   Wishlist: Reinstate Sombre (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45498)

pyg May 2nd, 2010 07:32 PM
Reinstate Sombre
 
Post here if you want Sombre to be unbanned.

Oh and
Code:
-- Snarling Nodachi
#newweapon 645
#name "Snarling Nodachi"
#rcost 7
#dmg 11
#att 2
#def 1
#len 3
#twohanded
#sound 78 -- lion sound
#secondaryeffect 51 -- strong poison
#magic
#end

Fantomen May 2nd, 2010 07:34 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
*Raises hand*

This is the worst news since I joined the fora. Sombre is clearly one of the top 5 contributors to Dom3.

Sure he's got a bit of a mouth sometimes, but on the other hand he's always helpful and answers a lot of questions. It's not like he's really been mean to anyone, just a bit impolite.

Permanent ban seems extremely harsh, why not just mute him for a month or so. Or a 3 month ban or something.

I mean, shrapnel is even indirectly making money on his mod nations. They're so good they could just as well be an official expansion pack.

I'm really really disappointed, bad BAD moderators.

Frozen Lama May 2nd, 2010 07:35 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
well i'll copy my post from the other thread:

Good effing job Shrapnel.

good to know that the moderators are looking out for us and banning the jerks who make this forum worse and add nothing to the community. mod nations, who needs em? helpful, if mouthy, members? screw them. we really only need moderators. then they can ban each other.

Raiel May 2nd, 2010 07:35 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Aye. Can't think of anything he could have done that warranted such a casual dismissal of his value to our community.

Seriously, if he's out.. so am I.

13lackGu4rd May 2nd, 2010 07:41 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
perma banning is great for jerks who just don't give a damn about the rules and flame, cuss, spam, troll, etc. Sombre didn't go that far, not to mention that he actually contributed a lot to the dom3 community. thus perma banning him is very harsh in my opinion, and in the opinions of many others.

quantum_mechani May 2nd, 2010 07:41 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiel (Post 743335)

Seriously, if he's out.. so am I.
I am inclined to agree. I would not support perma-banning any but the most extreme violaters, and to do so to on of the most productive contributing members of the community is ludicrous.

Maerlande May 2nd, 2010 07:52 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
DO NOT ARGUE WITH THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE ABOVE RULES:
If any ShrapnelCommunity.com staff member tells you to comply with one of these rules, you must comply.

If you argue the rules with a ShrapnelCommunity.com staff member publicly, you'll be warned, and all members of ShrapnelCommunity.com staff will be notified. This includes violating any of the above rules with a username or in any part of the user profile.

Keep it up, and you'll receive a temporary ban.

After 2 temporary bans, a permanent ban will be given.

Official Grievance:
If your thread is deleted do not start another thread about it. Contact a Moderator of the forum your thread was in or an Administrator.

If you have a problem with a Moderator please contact an Administrator, posting a thread about any problems you have regarding a member of the Moderation Team will be disregarded, and removed.
I'm curious how this rule was applied? It's the sombre truth that this action by the administration violates it's own rules. There were no 2 temporary bans. Perhaps I missed a couple of 30 seconds bans.

kianduatha May 2nd, 2010 07:59 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Agreed. Some resolution can be come to without a permanent ban.

Also the Snarling Nodachi sounds pretty cool and it'd be awesome to give it to Shura to further differentiate them from Wights/Banes.

rdonj May 2nd, 2010 08:03 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Sombre: Modder, community pillar, and member with one of the highest thanked posts counts of anyone on the forum. Tell me why we banned him again?

Annette May 2nd, 2010 08:34 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
I'm the one who banned Sombre. Don't blame our volunteer moderators, please. We're all very saddened by this and don't take it lightly. We (Shrapnel Games' staff) understand that Sombre has made many positive contributions to these boards. On the other hand, he/she continually violated the rules we have established and expect every forum member to observe. We actually gave some extra rope in this case, encouraging Sombre to continue participating positively without breaking our forum guidelines. Unfortunately, Sombre was not willing to do this.

Trumanator May 2nd, 2010 08:40 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Lama (Post 743334)

Good effing job Shrapnel.

good to know that the moderators are looking out for us and banning the jerks who make this forum worse and add nothing to the community. mod nations, who needs em? helpful, if mouthy, members? screw them. we really only need moderators. then they can ban each other.
+1000

Raiel May 2nd, 2010 08:44 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annette (Post 743357)
I'm the one who banned Sombre. Don't blame our volunteer moderators, please. We're all very saddened by this and don't take it lightly. We (Shrapnel Games' staff) understand that Sombre has made many positive contributions to these boards. On the other hand, he/she continually violated the rules we have established and expect every forum member to observe. We actually gave some extra rope in this case, encouraging Sombre to continue participating positively without breaking our forum guidelines. Unfortunately, Sombre was not willing to do this.
O.K. Fine.

But the results were a dramatic negative for this community (your customers) and eventually for Illwinter (your customer, too).

Perhaps a serious re-evaluation of said guidelines is in order.

Frozen Lama May 2nd, 2010 08:44 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Lama (Post 743334)
Good effing job Shrapnel.
I don't blame the volunteer mods. I know who's the dumb ones. the people who make money off his mods of course.

Maer posted your guy's rules. give him the temp ban. he'll probably only post mod stuff anyways simply because he doesn't care enough about the rest of the forum anymore.

quantum_mechani May 2nd, 2010 08:52 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annette (Post 743357)
We're all very saddened by this and don't take it lightly.
With all due respect, this doesn't really ring true. As has been pointed out, measures seems to have gone directly to the most severe consequences possible rather than any form of temp ban. I have difficulty imagining the horrible breach of rules coming from Sombre that could only be answered in such a way.

Graeme Dice May 2nd, 2010 08:56 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
It is absolutely vital that the mods be respected for their adherence to the rules and utter devotion to ensuring that no person who does not respect their utter and perfect authority shall remain on these boards.

Rookierookie May 2nd, 2010 08:59 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Arguing about the scale of the offense vs punishment is fair game, but using contributions to community as a point of argument does not make sense and will not go over well.

Trumanator May 2nd, 2010 09:01 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookierookie (Post 743370)
Arguing about the scale of the offense vs punishment is fair game, but using contributions to community as a point of argument does not make sense and will not go over well.
Why the hell shouldn't it? Great contributors are what keeps a forum alive, there's no reason that you should perma-ban one just because some minor mods got butthurt over him not caring about one 10 point infraction.

Maerlande May 2nd, 2010 09:06 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
More rope simply turns a broken neck into slow strangulation. Ask any executioner.

Maerlande May 2nd, 2010 09:07 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
And I'm still curious about what happened to the two temporary bans required by the forum rules as posted above. They must have been VERY fast.

Raiel May 2nd, 2010 09:08 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookierookie (Post 743370)
Arguing about the scale of the offense vs punishment is fair game, but using contributions to community as a point of argument does not make sense and will not go over well.
Ummm... I know the ranking system on this forum can make this point confusing, but this really isn't the military. Shrapnel is a business. They made a move that is bad for business.

Rookierookie May 2nd, 2010 09:08 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumanator (Post 743373)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookierookie (Post 743370)
Arguing about the scale of the offense vs punishment is fair game, but using contributions to community as a point of argument does not make sense and will not go over well.
Why the hell shouldn't it? Great contributors are what keeps a forum alive, there's no reason that you should perma-ban one just because some minor mods got butthurt over him not caring about 10 point infractions.
I don't know...for the same reasons that people are not happy when big banks get bailed out while smaller banks go broke, or when the starter on a football team gets a 1-game suspension while the reserve gets kicked out for the same offense?

Maerlande May 2nd, 2010 09:09 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
A permanent ban can be applied for any reason if the Admins determine it is warranted to promote the harmony of the community.
Okay, doing a find on the forum rules discovered this additional clause. I am thrilled to know that we are now more harmonious. I feel harmonious. Don't y'all?

Frozen Lama May 2nd, 2010 09:11 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Point me to a little guy who got banned because he hurt a mod's feelings and no one said anything?

honestly your reply is so completely ridiculos that i'm not even sure if its worth replying to.

Graeme Dice May 2nd, 2010 09:12 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
I'm very glad that the harmony of the forums has been improved by removing this clearly disruptive and unneeded member. After all, he broke the rules, and the rules are the most important thing to follow, always, regardless of whether the outcome makes sense.

Annette May 2nd, 2010 09:15 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
You know what's funny? This thread in itself is a violation of our forum rules. Some of you may want to read them sometime. But, believe it or not, we have no desire to run a Nazi forum. I think we're pretty laid back, actually, and as a company try to leave our forums in the hands of you, our customers, and our developers. Once in a while, in a difficult situation like this, we step in (as much as we hate to). Absolutely, Sombre made great contributions here. I don't agree that makes him better than the rest of you.

Frozen Lama May 2nd, 2010 09:18 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
maybe try answering the few questions we asked? did banning him make the community more "harmonius?" was his hurting of mod's feelings so bad that he doesn't even get the 2 temp bans? and if the forum is a violation cool. lets make more. you are pretty laid back, its just some times you feel the need to stick a twig up your rear and ban some useful member.

Graeme Dice May 2nd, 2010 09:19 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Yes, this thread is indeed in violation of the forum rules. And remember little children. Rules are the most important thing in your life. Breaking them is the worst possible thing you can do. You must always show absolute deference to anyone who has power over you, no matter what they tell you to do, because people in power are perfect, never make mistakes, and never ever want to do anything that's not good for you.

Raiel May 2nd, 2010 09:23 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annette (Post 743385)
You know what's funny? This thread in itself is a violation of our forum rules. Some of you may want to read them sometime. But, believe it or not, we have no desire to run a Nazi forum. I think we're pretty laid back, actually, and as a company try to leave our forums in the hands of you, our customers, and our developers. Once in a while, in a difficult situation like this, we step in (as much as we hate to). Absolutely, Sombre made great contributions here. I don't agree that makes him better than the rest of you.
Yeah... that's funny.

You don't want to be Nazis (hello, Godwin), but your rules are extremely repressive. Your site, your rules, fine.

But you certainly don't apply them across the board and you've chosen to apply the harshest punishment to a member of this community that has EARNED our respect.

Do you know what else earns respect? Eating crow when you've made a bad call. But why dance with someone else now, eh?

quantum_mechani May 2nd, 2010 09:25 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annette (Post 743385)
Once in a while, in a difficult situation like this, we step in (as much as we hate to). Absolutely, Sombre made great contributions here. I don't agree that makes him better than the rest of you.
I don't think one has to be better than the rest of us to expect a little bit more than an instant permaban for apparently being 'inharmonious'. That Sombre contributes so much to dominions only makes for additional collateral damage to everyone else.

Maerlande May 2nd, 2010 09:26 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Dudes! Better shut up now or we'll all get banned. And I can tell you, it's painful to get banned. My wife made me sleep on the coach for a week after my banning because I got so twitchy. All my troll senses were tingling.

http://thesaurus.com/browse/sombre

Squirrelloid May 2nd, 2010 09:29 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
If we go around banning everyone who defends Sombre, this forum will become pretty useless. That sounds like a losing proposition all around.

Honestly, making it against forum rules to discuss forum rules or their implementation is pretty stupid. Because clearly the rules or how they are applied can never be wrong... (In this case, by a strict reading of the rules, Sombre should have been temp banned - it would be pretty hard to make a case that perma-banning him really improved the community in any way. This thread is a testament to the deharmonizing effect its had, with respect to the specific rules clause).

Trumanator May 2nd, 2010 09:32 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annette (Post 743385)
But, believe it or not, we have no desire to run a Nazi forum.
Good, because at least the Nazis were evenhanded in their exterminations, obviously Shrapnel isn't capable of that.

Valerius May 2nd, 2010 09:40 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
The idea that there should be different rules of conduct based on contributions to the community seems like a very bad idea to me. But I think Sombre counted on this and that Shrapnel did in fact tolerate more than they would otherwise have because of his contributions.

Rather than attacking Shrapnel for enforcing their rules, what about asking Sombre to just follow those rules? If he's not willing to, what does that tell you?

Frozen Lama May 2nd, 2010 09:42 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
i'm pretty sure about 1/2 of the **** here is based around shrapnel not following their own rules

Graeme Dice May 2nd, 2010 09:43 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
I'm shocked at you Frozen Lama. Absolutely nothing is more important than ensuring that the moderators never have their feelings hurt, and that they get respect for their authority (as no other reason is needed to respect somebody).

quantum_mechani May 2nd, 2010 09:49 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerius (Post 743400)
The idea that there should be different rules of conduct based on contributions to the community seems like a very bad idea to me. But I think Sombre counted on this and that Shrapnel did in fact tolerate more than they would otherwise have because of his contributions.
Can you point to other people permabanned for lesser offenses? The only other permabans I know of are for cheating or promoting piracy. If anything, it appears Sombre's high profile is part of what drew fire.

Rookierookie May 2nd, 2010 09:52 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
As far as I could see, nobody has provided any information on what the violations were, exactly. Maybe they were deleted, maybe they were through private communication. I have not said that I think he should or should not be permanently banned. At this point I have no idea what Sombre's violations were, and I would certainly like to know more.

However, a large number of posters above seem to be assuming, with no justification as far as I could see, that the violations in question were petty. Maybe it's true, but so far nobody who has posted has given any factual proof that the violations were, in fact, insignificant, and it doesn't seem like anybody has actually went and tried to find where Sombre violated the forum rules (according to admins) or hurt the feelings of a mod (according to some posters above). If you don't want to post it in a thread for whatever reason, there is always PM. What I've seen so far is, to put it bluntly, closer to figments of imagination than to fact.

I already said that arguing about the scale of the offense vs punishment is fair game. As far as I can see, the matter is simple.

If Sombre's offenses were minor, he should not have been permanently banned.
If Sombre's offenses were major, he should be permanently banned.

Either way, the amount of contribution he has made to the community is completely irrelevant. To use this rheotoric as argument makes it sound like it would be acceptable for Sombre to engage in cannabalism of infants, because he has made sufficient contributions to deserve that right.

Frozen Lama May 2nd, 2010 09:55 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
well i'm glad you took the time to write all that. minor flaw though- we know what his "offense" was. and we stated it several different ways, he mouthed off to a mod, he hurt thier ego, he was being abrasive, or, as shrapnel puts it, he was very strongly making the community less harmonius. we know what he did, and it definitly did not deserve a permaban.

Trumanator May 2nd, 2010 09:57 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Actually, we do know why Sombre was banned, and I referred to it already. Of course, if Shrapnel has a different reason, they could always post that. The problem is that its so pathetic that it would make them even more laughable.

A 10 pt infraction for using a censored word, and then a sarcastic PM response to recieving it =/= an intolerably inharmonious forum climate.

rdonj May 2nd, 2010 09:57 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
If you want to know what he did, pop into IRC and it can be explained to you in extremely precise detail!

Rookierookie May 2nd, 2010 09:58 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Would you care to provide a link, then?

quantum_mechani May 2nd, 2010 10:00 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
The details, as I understand them:

*Sombre made a post with a word that was swear filtered.

*Sombre got a 10 point infraction for it, and responded with '10 points? oh noes'.

*Sombre was banned.

At no point was there a temp ban, nor was there any current warning on him at the point of to post with a swear.

Graeme Dice May 2nd, 2010 10:00 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
You could always look at his posting history, but there's no point, since the mods are perfect and wonderful. I swoon when I just think about them.

Annette May 2nd, 2010 10:04 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Absolutely, the details of the violations have not, and will not, be posted. And you're right,many assumptions have been made. I know the majority of those interested don't understand why we took the action we did, but I'm not going to share details that would help you decide whether you agree or disagree. It is what it is.

Trumanator May 2nd, 2010 10:09 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
1 Attachment(s)
Exactly as I said already. Oh well, glad we have these moderators...

Frozen Lama May 2nd, 2010 10:15 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
oh good. time for saving face.

is it worth mentioning another really good reason for not posting them? feels like a little bit of an excuse to me.

everyone knows that PR representatives are paid to lie to their consumers. glad to see that annette has the moral fiber to just flatly refuse

Foodstamp May 2nd, 2010 10:32 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Anymore, the guy was rude more often than helpful. Will suck to lose him, he did a lot for the community and at one time he was a very positive force on the forums (Beyond just mod contributions). Maybe he was bored and looking to get banned? Dominions has been around for a long time now, and he can still chat with people in IRC.

Maerlande May 2nd, 2010 10:42 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Irc Sucks!

Annette May 2nd, 2010 10:43 PM
Re: Reinstate Sombre
 
Good reason for not posting details: respect for privacy.

I'm locking this down. If anyone would like to continue this discussion, please refer to the section "Terms of Use" found in the link "Forum Rules".


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