Land RAND is over, other games are ending too, so it's time to start organising promised team game. I know everyone was waiting for that :)

Most people should remember Preponderance setup. Luckily there are no clams now, so we should have nice and pleasant game.


Game settings:
- 12 teams of 2
- every team starts in a valley, one player near plains, one near caves
- game is ANONYMOUS, but teamings are public [so who is with who] and so are team compositions [so which nation with which]
- NO DIPLOMACY allowed between temas (inside teams, pretty much anything goes, except exploits)
- you should keep your identity secret (it's not disallowed to talk to someone outside game about it, but it's strongly discouraged, so we don't eliminate potential subs; you can always chat with game admin)
- player identity is revealed when WHOLE team dies
- RENAMING is ON, but it can be used only to make microing easier, so to rename mages with random paths etc; allowed convention for e.x. fire 4 nature 2 mage could be: FFFFNN or F4N2, you should not use anything that may make someone guess who you are; you can use names that just help in micro, so things like spells he will cast or item he is about to forge are ok too; but you are also not allowed to change names of scouts, etc
- if anyone breaks rules, he may be set to AI or endure few stales, without warning
- if you have any doubts - ask before
- SUBBING: since few patches it's possible to play for more than 1 nation with same cd-key, so in emergency you can let your teammate play for you, but it can be only temporary and game admin should be notified; in other situations, try to arrange subs so that no one knows which nation it's affecting

General settings:
Map: WoG Remake Team Arena v.3
Indies: standard, MA
Gold: 150%
Resources: 150%
Magic sites: 55
Research: Difficult
HoF: 15
Renaming: ON
Mods:
- CBM 1.6
- Endgame Diversity Mod
- http://=http://forum.shrapnelgames.c... Standards v.2
- Banned Spells [Forge of the Ancients banned too] - see attachment
- Single Age Complete


Victory conditions: 10/26 VPs [24 caps + 2 VP worth central island]


Map files:
Map
TGA - use this one!


Nations by points:

8 points:
EA Fomoria
EA Lanka
EA Niefelheim
LA Mictlan

7 points:
EA Mictlan
MA Ermor
MA Jotunheim
LA Midgard


6 points:
EA Sauromatia
EA Caelum
EA Helheim
EA Vanheim
MA Pythium
MA Vanheim
LA Gath
LA Utgard
LA T'ien Ch'i

5 points:
EA Arcoscephale
EA Ulm
EA T'ien Ch'i
EA Abysia
EA Tir na n'Og
EA Yomi
MA Ulm
MA Arcoscephale
MA Bandar Log
MA Shinuyama
MA PAngaea
MA Mictlan
MA Caelum
MA T'ien Ch'i
MA Eriu
LA Arcoscephale
LA Ulm
LA Caelum
LA Abysia
LA Agartha
LA Pythium

4 points:
EA Ermmor
EA Pangaea
EA Kailasa
MA Marignon
MA Machaka
MA Abysia
MA C'tis
LA Man
LA C'tis
LA Marignon
LA Patala
LA Pangaea


3 points:
EA Marverni
EA C'tis
MA Man
LA Jomon
LA Bogarus

2 points:
EA Agartha
MA Agartha
LA Atlantis

banned:
LA Ermor
EA Hinnom
MA Ashdod
water nations :)


Teams so far:
1. Squirrelloid + Raiel
2. FrozenLama + Trumanator
3. Maerlande + Burnsaber
4. Juffos + Hermeister
5. Zeldor + Quitti
6. Baalz + militarist
7. Ferrosol + Kheldron
8. DrPraetorious + Calahan
9. TheDemon + Blazin961
10. Apsophos + earcaraxe
11. Alpine Joe + Ghoul31
12. Agent Smith + Hoplosterum

Thread for this game exists on other forums too and it's suggested to visit there, as big part of players cannot post here.

Nation assignments:
- Ironhawk is main game admin now [there will be a backup one]
- you pick 3 [THREE] team choices, you should not repeat nations much
- your 2 nations must be worth 10 points at most, total
- all ties for a nation are won by a team that has less points total [not in 3 picks, of course]
- ties that cannot be resolved this way are up to game admin, who will try to satisfy most people and try to award highest picks for everyone
- if you lose all 3 picks, you MAY get 11 points to choose from remaining nations


No cheating!![i], this includes:

- Bogus orders
- Sickle farming
- lab filling [well, you cannot send anything this game]
- suiciding mages/priests intentionally to turn them undead
- giving up without fight
- staling
- not talking to your teammate
- revealing your or anyones ID in this game


Patala LA Mari
Lanka EA Agartha
EA Arco EA Ctis
LA Ulm Bandar Log
MA Man EA Mict
MA Arco EA Kailasa
EA Yomi LA Abysia
Sauro MA Machaka
Ma TC Ma Marignon
Shin MA Pyth
MA Aby MA Jot
LA Utgard LA Bogarus

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

You can see points for nations in Prepo 1 here

They'd be of course modified, because of no clams, some new patches in between + late summons mod.

And here are premade teams [they could be tweaked too]: teams

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

Sign me up though I need a teammate. would prefer a points based selection and just normal diplomacy.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

I'll play

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

i think i'll play for sure if we do rand(either) and otherwise i'll play for maybes


also if anyone i know wants to be my teammate that might make me more likely to play even if we don't get the ruleset i want... so.. yeah lemme know

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

B, C.

Looking for a partner.

OK, joined with Namad. My votes still stand.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

I will play with Militarist

I vote teams by points and no diplo

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

No diplo sucks in a team game! C'mon!@ I can deal with Diplo with no trading, but no diplo?

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

I'll play with Ferrosol if its cool with him.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

I vote teams by points and no diplo

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

+ 1

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!]
 

I created a thread on both forums, so if you can, try to read on both. You are responsible for getting teammate, preferably someone that you have good contact with [especially if it becomes no-diplo game].

Thread on new forums is here: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...wtopic=95&st=0

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

dom3 without diplo is like french fries without salt.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Surprisingly bland?

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

the main drawback of a rand game is that you have no one to talk to .... a team rand game would solve that problem...

one of the main drawbacks of a team game is coordinating with your teammate while also performing diplomacy... a simple nap suddenly requires 4players to agree instead of 2.. ... RAND could solve this...


see? team solves all the problems of rand and rand solves all the problems of team! .... yet no one has ever tried a team rand game before? why not?


oh well I'll play even if what I vote for doesn't win ... just feel it's odd no one is voting with me!

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

That.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Salt is bad for you though. Same as spending 2+ hours writing diplo PM's every turn.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Speaking of which, I think I'm gonna pass on this game actually, I've got another game that's getting complicated and taking up a lot of my time.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Ok, here is draft of point system, pleace comment :)

[ ] marks old points in Prepo 1

Ea Arco: 5 [5]
Ea Ermor: 4 [4]
Ea Ulm: 5 [5]
Ea Marverni: 3 [3]
Ea Sauromatia: 6 [6]
Ea TC: 5 [5]
Ea Mictlan: 7 [7]
Ea Aby: 5 [5]
Ea Caelum: 6 [7]
Ea C'tis: 3 [3]
Ea Pan: 4 [4]
Ea Agartha: 2 [3]
Ea Tir Na Og: 5 [5]
Ea Fomoria: 7 [6]
Ea Vanheim: 6 [7]
Ea Helhiem: 6 [8]
Ea Niefelhiem: banned
Ea Kailasa: 4 [3]
Ea Yomi: 5 [3] ??
Ea Hinnom: banned
Ea Lanka: 8 [8]
Ma Pythium: 6 [6]
Ma Man: 3 [3]
Ma Ulm: 5 [3]
Ma Ermor: 7 [7]
Ma Arco: 5 [6]
Ma Marignon: 4 [4]
Ma Mictlan: 5 [5]
Ma Machaka: 4 [5]
Ma Agartha: 2 [2]
Ma Aby: 4 [4]
Ma Caelum: 5 [5]
Ma C'tis: 4 [4]
Ma Pan: 5 [4]
Ma Van: 6 [6]
Ma Jotun: 8 [6]
Ma Bandar log: 5 [5]
Ma Shinuyama: 5 [4]
Ma Ashdod: banned
Ma Eriu: 5 [5] ??
Ma T'ien Ch'i: 5 [4]
La Arco: 5 [5]
La Man: 4 [4]
La Ulm: 5 [5]
La Mari: 4 [5] -1 point for revealed starting location
La Mictlan: 7 [7]
La TC: 6 [6]
La Jomon: 3 [1]
La Agartha: 5 [5]
La Aby: 5 [3] ??
La Caelum: 5 [5]
La Ctis: 4 [4]
La Pan: 4 [5]
La Midgard: 7 [6]
La Urgard: 6 [6]
La Patala: 3 [3]
La Gath: 6 [8]
La Atlantis: 2 [4] -1 point for revelead location
La Pythium: 5 [5]
La Bogarus: 3 [4]
La Ermor: banned

All thug nations get +1 point at least. All SC +2-3. Forge bonus is worth about 2-3 points. Good sacreds are worth 2 points. Weak very early game is not counted, as you don't need it on that map.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

I vote A,A. I'll see if I can get a team-mate.

LA Utgard is not 2 pts worse than MA Utgard - you can everywhere-recruitable communion slaves, you get the same thugs and better equipment on your giants. Admittedly, you don't get *VETTI HAGS*(which are a fantastic bargain.) Lanka is not better LA Mictlan. LA Atlantis and EA Agartha are not *that* bad. Bogarus has advantages in a team game (insanely fast research, good diversity), make it 4 pts. LA Pan can be a real bruiser - make it a 5. LA Ulm has critical weaknesses, make it a 4.

Also, I think you're overweighting the power-level of Hinnom, Niefelheim and Ashdod - especially as they all get nerfed somewhat in CBM. Here I've arranged the nations into 10-pt teams.

EA Niefelheim: 9
MA Ashdod: 9
w
Ma Agartha: 1

Ea Hinnom: 8
Ma Jotun: 8
w
Ea Agartha: 2
La Atlantis: 2
Ma Man: 2

Ea Lanka: 7
Ea Fomoria: 7
Ea Mictlan: 7
La Mictlan: 7
La Midgard: 7
Ma Ermor: 7
vs
Ea C'tis: 3
Ea Marverni: 3
La Jomon: 3
La Patala: 3

Ea Caelum: 6
Ea Helhiem: 6
Ea Sauromatia: 6
Ea Vanheim: 6
La Gath: 6
La TC: 6
Ma Pythium: 6
Ma Van: 6
w
La Bogarus: 4
Ea Ermor: 4
Ea Kailasa: 4
Ea Pan: 4
La Ctis: 4
La Man: 4
La Mari: 4
La Pan: 4
Ma Aby: 4
Ma C'tis: 4
Ma Machaka: 4
Ma Marignon: 4
La Ulm: 4

Ea Aby: 5
Ea Arco: 5
Ea TC: 5
Ea Tir Na Og: 5
Ea Ulm: 5
Ea Yomi: 5
La Aby: 5
La Agartha: 5
La Arco: 5
La Caelum: 5
La Pythium: 5
Ma Arco: 5
Ma Bandar log: 5
Ma Caelum: 5
Ma Eriu: 5
Ma Mictlan: 5
Ma Pan: 5
Ma Shinuyama: 5
Ma T'ien Ch'i: 5
Ma Ulm: 5

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

LA Ulm has forge bonus and blood, I think they deserve to be at 5.

Lanka is so high because of mobility and Raksharaja thugs mostly. And they have monkey uniques, which are better than what Mictlan gets [and no water for Mictlan to play with really].

LA Atlantis gets no water to play with. And needs map modification and revealed start.

EA AGartha sucks and it's even easier to abuse their weaknesses in team game.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

So Niefel comes at 8 points, with LA Mictlan at 8 too. How about EA Mictlan? They should stay at 7, I think.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

drp your number values aren't always the same as zeldor's

does that mean you are suggesting changes in numbers? or does that mean you were reading his old unupdated numbers list?

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

He is making suggestions and I will agree on some probably. Nief will come at 8 points, LA Mict may go 1 point higher etc.

And to reply you on your other forum - no-diplo does not exclude point system. It only excludes randomness [so it's not RAND then, just anonymous and no diplo]. You send nation picks to someone that would be dividing nations and it all goes the same. You were never going to submit nations here anyway. So with no-diplo you know who is teamed with who, but you don't which team is cotnrolled by that pair.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

TAND Team Anonymous NoDiplomacy


has a nice ring to it! I'm gonna change my vote then from anything rand to anything no diplomacy :) since really that's all i wanted to vote for i just didn't realize I was allowed

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Oooh, I'd love to play but my teammate in the first Preponderance probably doesn't have the time to get back to Dominions. Anyone willing to blind-team with me?

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Zeldor - could you post the final pts totals at the root of the thread?

I made comments on points on the other forums.

I'm going to disagree with Dr. P in that I think Niefl should be banned, and think we should consider banning Sauromatia too, or at least fairly representing them point-wise. They're at least an 8.

I'm also not sure forge bonuses make a nation that much better - in a regular MP game you'd just whore out your forge bonus to gain more gems or other favors. MA Ulm, for example, is still worthless outside of its forge bonus, and will need to spend gems empowering to really get a lot out of it. Certainly MA Ulm should be worth less than EA Ulm, MA Caelum and LA Ulm since its strictly worse than all the other nations with a forge bonus.

Suggestion on picks by points: Tie breaking
In the event two teams want the same nation, the following tie breakers shall be applied in order:
1)the team which has used the fewest of its 10 points gets priority.
2) ???

(Teams which don't use all their points are most likely to get the nations they want. Teams which don't use really powerful nations are most likely to get the second nation they want).

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

that tie breaker rule already existed and was already used in prepo1... plenty of people submitted 9point totals


forge bonuses are better in a team game because you don't need to be a good nation in a team to be a good nation.... i mean you can just let your teammate fight all your enemies and bypass you and control 80% of the total territory... the forge bonus is a very fixed bonus in terms of usefulness ... it's more useful in the this game although maybe not useful enough to be worth the certain scores the nations with them have..

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Sauromatia has a high win percentage because it is powerful but not obviously *threatening*. Also, skilled players like it. At an 8, no-one would use it.

Niefelheim isn't that bad when you take the forced 12 turns of non-aggression into account.

Anyway, I'm a team with Calahan. Under rules variance Omega, I'm playing Niefelheim and Calahan is playing Ashdod. The mod which allows us both to take gorgons is attached at the root of the thread.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Oh, and lets see.
-Good death and nature plus enough astral and blood. Ie, great magic.
-Bugged poison archers that are absolutely brutal.
-Witchkings and Warrior Priestesses are sacred thugs
-Ready access to fortune tellers makes misfortune less bad
-Good Cavalry (even ignoring the sacred ones, since those are cap only)

I'm not totally sure I agree.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

I wouldn't say that Sauro has recruitable thugs. It's really stretching thug status.

Sauro is really good, but on those settings I don't think it's really better than let's say LA TC.

I don;t think any non-thug nation is worth more than 6 in this game.

DrPraetorius:

I don't have final version yet, I should have it probably tomorrow. I will take intou account your and other suggestions and fix my points :)

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

So DrP + Calahan is a team.

We have BlackGuard and Apsophos looking for teammates. And 3 more teams to go.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epice team game returns! join now!] - just 7 spots left
 

Modified ratings, any comments?

Ea Arco: 5 [5]
Ea Ermor: 4 [4]
Ea Ulm: 5 [5] - maybe 4?
Ea Marverni: 3 [3] - maybe 4?
Ea Sauromatia: 6 [6]
Ea TC: 5 [5]
Ea Mictlan: 7 [7]
Ea Aby: 5 [5]
Ea Caelum: 6 [7]
Ea C'tis: 3 [3]
Ea Pan: 4 [4]
Ea Agartha: 2 [3]
Ea Tir Na Og: 5 [5]
Ea Fomoria: 7 [6]
Ea Vanheim: 6 [7]
Ea Helhiem: 6 [8]
Ea Niefelhiem: 8
Ea Kailasa: 4 [3]
Ea Yomi: 5 [3]
Ea Hinnom: banned
Ea Lanka: 8 [8]
Ma Pythium: 6 [6]
Ma Man: 3 [3]
Ma Ulm: 5 [3] - maybe 4?
Ma Ermor: 7 [7]
Ma Arco: 5 [6]
Ma Marignon: 4 [4]
Ma Mictlan: 5 [5]
Ma Machaka: 4 [5] - 3 or 4?
Ma Agartha: 2 [2]
Ma Aby: 4 [4]
Ma Caelum: 5 [5]
Ma C'tis: 4 [4]
Ma Pan: 5 [4]
Ma Van: 6 [6]
Ma Jotun: 7 [6]
Ma Bandar log: 5 [5]
Ma Shinuyama: 5 [4]
Ma Ashdod: banned
Ma Eriu: 5 [5] 4 or 5? they have thugs, but meh, and you can get Asmegs on the map
Ma T'ien Ch'i: 5 [4] - or 4?
La Arco: 5 [5]
La Man: 4 [4]
La Ulm: 5 [5]
La Mari: 4 [5] -1 point for revealed starting location
La Mictlan: 8 [7]
La TC: 6 [6]
La Jomon: 3 [1]
La Agartha: 5 [5]
La Aby: 5 [3] ??
La Caelum: 5 [5]
La Ctis: 4 [4]
La Pan: 4 [5]
La Midgard: 7 [6]
La Urgard: 6 [6]
La Patala: 4 [3]
La Gath: 6 [8]
La Atlantis: 2 [4] -1 point for revelead location
La Pythium: 5 [5]
La Bogarus: 3 [4]
La Ermor: banned

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 4 spots left
 

I remember the original list being ordered by point value and not nation name as well... that would be a lot easier to argue about...

i'm not sure if that's how the official list was done but I know that my team(s) used such a copy to debate what it's preferences would be...

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 4 spots left
 

Sure, I can do so :)

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 4 spots left
 

I'm dropping out of this game. Sorry Namad.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 4 spots left
 

well looks like I'm looking for a new teammate... someone I already know... otherwise I might have to drop out as well..

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 3 spots left
 

I will play in this.

Anyone interested in being my teammate?

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 3 spots left
 

Hi.

I'd like to play, but I also have no teammate.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 3 spots left
 

Tho... No, sorry. Team game is too much, to think of it.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 3 spots left
 

Can we launch next week w/however many players we actually have?

I'd hate to see this fail to reach a quorum of 24 and then fizzle :(.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 3 spots left
 

I'll be your teammate

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 3 spots left
 

DrPraetorius:

I don't think it will be a problem. We may need just 1 or 2 people now :) And Utopia may end next turn, so maybe Folket or someone else joins.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns! join now!] - just 3 spots left
 

We may have a teammate for namad too. So if I get confirmation from him [and namad] + word from Alpine Joe about teaming with ghoul, we can consider the game closed.

Also, I can make rules official:
- anonymous, no diplomacy
- nations by points
- you need 10/26 VPs to win, as a team
- Ironhawk will be game admin, I will try to get someone to help too

I will tweak the map during weekend, please send any feedback you can, especially on garrisons leading to plains. Calahan found some missing terrain tags, I will fix those too.

You can start picking nations. Remember the rules:
- you pick 3 sets, starting from the one you want most
- try to not repeat nations much in those picks
- if there are ties [even for 1 nation, not whole teams], team with least points total wins
- you can spend 10 points, there is no award for spending less, except winning ties
- same-point ties will be resolved by game admin, with a goal to make everyone as happy as possible [so looking at other choices too]
- you MAY get 11 points to spend on remaining nations if you don't get any of your 3 choices
- remember: Fomoria, LA Marignon, LA Atlantis have revealed starting position, everyone will know where you and your teammate start

Mods - we will use following:
- CBM 1.6
- Endgame Diversity Mod, new version [released yesterday]
- Streamers & Standards
- Single Age Complete
- Banned Spells [small mod banning AN, AC, BoT, Ut] [if you want to have Forge banned too, it's good time to say so now]

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns!]
 

I do not want Forge banned.

BUT I just remembered - we need commander renaming!

Yes, there is some risk that someone will recognize someone-else's commander renaming style. It's also possible that I might name a commander "Priapus of Praetorious" and send him on a pillaging spree.

But it's a small price to pay to avoid the administrative headache of being unable to magic-name your mages.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns!]
 

I guess I will team up with Ghoul then.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns!]
 

You can team with Agent Smith too, your choice. It looks like namad won't be playing. But maybe someone from Utopia will join, as it just ended. Maybe Folket or Gregstrom? :)

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns!]
 

I would like to join if there is a slot on any of the teams.

Re: Preponderance 2 [epic team game returns!]
 

Hoplosterum:

Namad is not playing, so PM Agent Smith or get on IRC :) Irc is best. I don't think he got a teammate yet.