Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

Just a quick Q, does stealth astral intercept mind hunts if it was in enemy provinces? eg. enemy mind hunts an enemy province which just so happen to have a star child or two on it, will you counter attack and fumble their minds?

For reverse communion, I understand that if you go the matrix route you can bring certain master's item effect to all the slaves (Crystal shield) as it is "cast" at the very start of battle when you are already in communion. My question is, are summon items such as wraith crown, bottle of water, bag wind ...etc also coded as "cast" (summon water ele, undead horder spells ...etc)? Can you bring in a 4 master +12 slaves all matrixed up, with each master wearing a bottle of water and thus having every slave spawn 4x water elemental?

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

Yes. A common tactic is to use hiding Spectres with Astral pick to protect your raiders from mind hunts.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

no, only self buffs also effect the slaves. Undead Horde, Summon Water(or any other) Elemental, etc are not self buffs but normal battle spells thus are only issued once, so you can put them on the slaves too, not just masters, if you have enough items that is.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

ah okay thanks, so its possible to rent out mind hunt protection through stealth astrals, probably won't have the need to but good to know!

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

That's a twist that I've never heard used though. May have to check first if any nation's stealth astral can protect the exposed nation's commanders.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

it should work. Could be something to remember for team games.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

I don't think I've actually tested it, but it should work. Mind Hunt will target stealthy commanders in other people's territory. I've lost plenty of scouts when my neighbors were being mindhunted. If the hiding commanders can be targeted, it only makes sense that astral ones could block.

Easy enough to test in a debug game if you want to be sure.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

Great idea, Finalgenesis. I might hire some star child bodyguards in our upcoming game :)

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

I'll keep that in mind as an option :D

I'm eager to see what starting location I'll get, would I get boxed in by Oceania and Shinuyama? Will my shore line make up of my least favorite opponents like Ashod or C'tis?

Looking forward to it! Hope I don't get cream in the first few years lol.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

1. I've used stealthy astral many times in team games. My team never gets mind hunted, I assume its successful.

2. Contrary to popular opinion, the masters items (copper plate, etc) do NOT propagate to communion slaves.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

That's just plain wrong actually.


Items such as Copper Plate and Crystal Shield work absolutely fine in communions as slave buffs as long as you know how communions actually work. (and not just guess at how they work)

In the case with items, the slaves and masters (who are carrying the buff items) need to enter battle already formed in a communion. This is because slaves only receive buffs from a master if they are a slave before the master casts the buff spell. So with item buffs, this means using Slave and Master Matrixes in most cases.

Communion slaves, with a Slave Matrix each. And a communion master, with a Master Matrix, and for example a Copper Plate. Set-up in a reverse communion. Will result in the communion slaves having shock resistance from the Copper Plate.


This probably marks the last time I will be correcting or answering anything on these forums. As all the shiit spreading has just gotten too much for me now, especially without the help of the various banned/no longer posting members who regularly used to assist with the job. (thinking here mainly of Sombre and vfb)

But lch might be pleased to hear this, as I'll be using the Wiki from now on to post the correct answer to questions such as these in the future. Let us all hail the Wiki :D

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

It does work with a few items. Ok, the only one I can positively confirm is crystal shield.

The item must have a #onebattlespell, and that spell must have a range: personal.

I'm pretty sure copper plate fails because its not #onebattlespell, its always active - indeed, any effect that creates or has an effect pre-combat is guaranteed not to work.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

No, the charge body effect is not always active. Shock Resistance is, but the Charge Body appears at the start of battle.

Both Charge Body from the Copper Plate and the magic boost from the Crystal Shield are propagated to the communion slaves. I just tested it.
As Calahan said, both Master and slaves need to be using matrices. I don't know if there are any other items that do this. None come to mind.

The copper plate is mostly a gimmick and the shield is only really useful if you need the boost round 1. Could be good with Sabbaths too, since you might not have a PotS caster available there.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

The shield could also be useful if your opponent is strong in astral and you're not and you think he'll magic duel any S mages you try to use in battle.

Funny idea about renting out stealthy S mages. While I knew about the mind hunt mechanic I hadn't considered that angle. Of course if the mind hunting nation discovers your stealthy S mage you'll have just made an enemy. :p

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

I have resisted the temptation to MH Ryleh for this very reason. Also, if you have an exposed asset that you are pretty sure will be mind-hunted you can try to cloud-trapeze or teleport an astral mage in there to intercept. Of course, you run the duel risks of a 50% chance that his ritual will go off before yours and the chance that your opponent will simply decided not to MH that target.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

A question back to stealth astral mage. If you teleport an astral mage into a province when an enemy cast mindhunt on it in the same turn, will you be there in time to intercept? My gutt feeling is telling me that this is up to Unit ID, so a low ID unit goes before higher ID unit in the same phase?

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

UnitId or reverse UnitId, on a turn by turn basis.
so if you really need to be sure, send a high and low id mage. Or since you're talking stealth mages, have one there ahead of time.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

Interesting, so If you know whether it is low or reversed on T1 you can plan on which to use in order to go first in casting.

In the same vein, If said teleporting mage was carrying say a bane venom or stone idol, does the mage get to apply its effect on the province it is teleporting to in the same turn?

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

As far as I've been able to tell, the order doesn't alternate, but get picked randomly each turn.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

Very good to know, thanks!

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

As Calahan seems to be getting tired of acting Sisyfos:p, I'll sub in for him and point out that only base astral skill is counted in mind duels. No types of buffs helps you, neither from items, spells or communions.

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

Valerius' point was to use a communion of non-astral mages, using crystal/slave matrices + the shield to get PotS working.

I think. :smirk:

Re: Stealth Astral and reverse-communion
 

Yes, that's correct. If, for instance, you've just got a couple of S random spectres you don't want risk them in battle against a strong astral nation (or even just a nation with access to lizard shaman).