Can you have more than one skin?
 

Barkskin, Stoneskin, Ironskin. If you have one of those effects, and then get a second one, does the new one overwrite the old? Both in terms of the amount of protection you get (10,15, or 20, respectively), and in terms of the vulnerabilities you get (fire, cold, lightning)?

Strength of Gaia says that gives Barkskin. If they do overwrite, then presumably SoGaia would overwrite Stone or Ironskin. If you cast them in the other order, Stoneskin overwrite the Barkskin part of SoG? But hopefully not the other parts of SoG (natural regen, +1 nature)

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

Interesting question.

There is a discussion of it now on the IRC channel. Probably someone will test it. I would guess that some overwrite others.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

I once tried modding a spell that gave barkskin, stoneskin, ironskin and invulnerability in a single spell. IIRC, only the two "top" spells in that spell took effect and the protection value was decided by the better spell. So the spell basically gave affected units the protection from invulnerability and the the negative poison resistance from invulnerability and the negative shock res from ironskin.

Based on that, I'd say that casting SoG wouldn't overwrite your previous stoneskin/ironskin although it would give the fire resistance malus. If I were you, I'd test it first though before trying it in MP or something.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

I think the consensus is, that you can have Invulnerability up with one previous buff. Everything else overwrites.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

the lord of the wild with E1 has protection of 14: basic 3, earth magic +1, his default scale mail cuirass +10.

If he casts barkskin, his protection will be 18. I dont get it at all. shouldnt it be (basic 10)+(em 1)+(cuirass 10)=21?

casting stoneskin the next turn will get his protection to 22, and casting ironskin after that to 26. (??) please enlighten me.

btw only the latest resistance malus applies in this case, just tested.

Its the same for cbm or not.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

Ok:
1: Natural protection and armour protection don't just add together. There's a formula combining the two that gives diminishing returns.
2: Only the latest malus applies, except in the case of Invulnerability, where the malus is in addition to any other malus you've given yourself through Xskin.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

Does that also apply to the vulnerabilities from the Mass versions of the spells?
(Protection, Mass Protection, Marble Warriors, Army of Gold/Lead)

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

It does for the mass barkskin from End of Weakness, but that was the only test I did on th mass spells. It would be a slight leap of faith to assume the same happens for all other mass skin spells.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

OK, I went and tested it.

First of all, if you script Stoneskin, Barkskin, the spell casting AI will look at you like you're an idiot and cast something else.

Using Strength of Gaia instead, it turns out that regardless of whether you cast SoG,Stoneskin or Stoneskin,SoG, you end up with the same effect: protection 15 and cold vulnerability. So it appears that the higher-protection skin always wins.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

IIRC, the vulnerabilities of all skins stay in effect while only the highest protection bonus applies.
Try casting barkskin, stoneskin, ironskin, invulnerability. What will be the results?

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

check what i wrote.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

My response was also on the basis of live tests, although I wasn't quite clear enough. With Xskin spells, only the malus of the highest prot spell in effect on you counts. If you have a skin and then get invul, you get the invul malus in addition to the Xskin malus currently in effect. I didn't test whether anything happens if you have invul and then an Xskin effect is cast upon you.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

Y'all are talking about order of casting between Invulnerability and skin spells, but I don't think the game cares about that, except when it's running the spell-casting AI. My testing suggests that it all works in this simple fashion:

You can have one of four kinds of "skin" (where ordinary, non-magical skin is one kind). You can have one of two "invulnerability" states. Skin state is independent of invulnerability state. Since only one skin can be present, only one skin-related elemental vulnerability can be present. When tougher skin is applied, it replaces weaker skin completely. When weaker skin is applied to tougher skin, nothing happens. Again, this paragraph is about spell effects, not about the spell-casting AI.

The spell-casting AI seems to assume that if a "skin" or Invulnerability spell won't increase protection, then it shouldn't be cast. But if Wooden Warriors hits somebody with no magical skin and also somebody with ironskin, the ironskin, as stated above, will not change.

Invulnerability's protection-increasing effect seems to override the protection provided by a skin.

Strength of Gaia causes a barksin effect and some other effects. The barkskin seems to be independent of the other effects.

I know some of this has been said, but I think not quite all of it... and surely you understand the impulse to pedantically explain things, fellow wargame forum reader. :)

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

This is actually fairly useful. Particularly when worrying about dropping Marble Warriors or Mass Protection and hitting the previously 100% resistant thugs.

It's a shame there seems to be no way to overwrite Ironskin, since 100% SR is the one I'd be most worried about and AoG/AoL are the buffs you'll really want in the late game.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

Ah, I forgot about gold and lead. These initially appeared to break my model, since it's possible to gain all the benefits of both kinds of skin at the same time, suggesting that a unit can after all have more than one skin at a time.

But I tested it just now, and learned that lead skin may not exist! I told a caster to cast Army of Gold and then Army of Lead, and he did. But then I added an astral mage, and told it to cast Antimagic first. After that, my earth mage would only cast Army of Gold! So maybe Army of Lead gives everybody ironskin and "antimagic", which I think is the state provided by Antimagic, Resist Magic, and the amulet of antimagic. That is, Army of Lead may be a combination of Army of Iron (which of course doesn't exist) and Antimagic!

I wonder... maybe Army of Gold is a combination of Army of Iron and Warriors of Muspelheim. Then there'd be no goldskin state either!

I think Elemental Fortitude and Gaia's Blessing work this way too--as what amounts to combinations of anti-fire, anti-ice, and anti-shock spells. I know that the anti-fire part of Elemental Fortitude doesn't stack with the anti-fire part of Army of Gold, for instance.

Re: Can you have more than one skin?
 

Yeah, that seems right to me.

Though I'd describe it in simpler terms. The AoL/AoG spells aren't combinations of other (possibly non-existant) mass spells, they just grant to everyone Ironskin + Resist Magic/50%FR.


I do think the Amulet of Antimagic stacks with Resist Magic spells.