Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

After playing around with some god builds, I've become enamored with the idea of playing the vamp queen in a new game. However, I don't seem to be able to decide which kingdom would, if not benefit, at least not suffer from her as a leader. Any suggestions?

I play vanilla, almost always on Glory of God map, default settings, and 12-15 kingdoms. Thanks in advance.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

you should check out Baalz's MA Abysia guide, he mentions going with an awake Vampire Queen in it. generally though, the Vampire Queen is a very underwhelming pretender, too expensive for what it gives you, especially if taking her awake.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

Very thematic for LA Ulm. She's useful too, providing a early way to start summoning Counts.

Still ridiculously expensive in vanilla, I'm not sure about CBM.

Long ago, back in Dom2, the VQ was actually useful and possibly overpowered, though the one player who was most successful with her was revealed to be cheating. She got nerfed several times in Dom2 and then in Dom3, ethereal was removed and the price raised again. Almost never worth it now.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

KisssBlade made a pretty strong case for the VQ in his Patala guide.

I think the VQ is only worth it if your nation benefits from a pretender with death magic and has national blood summons that require paths your mages don't have. I think part of the reason the VQ is considered a weak choice is that not many nations fit this description. That and she's super expensive outside of cbm.

So LA Ulm, Patala, and Bandar Log seem like strong contenders. Not sure if there are any others.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

second what has been said before. The monkey nations and la ulm. Also I like the idea of La marignon... CBM makes the vamp queen slightly more affordable.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

How about a high dominion high turmoil VQ led Pangea? Combine free vamps with free Maenads for a party like none other. Probably not the best investment but fun in idea.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

I don't like the Vampire Queen. If I want an immortal thug, I take the Lich. If I want an immortal with blood magic, I take the Master Lich and stick some initial blood on him... He has better death magic and dominion anyway.

The only reason I'd use her would be for thematic purposes and that means:

Late Age Ulm: Black Forest

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

You know...

I am playing a SP game as EA Pang with Dom 10 VQ and have heaps of Maenads but very few vamps. At Summer year 3 with a sleepy VQ a total of 8 vamps have been summoned. I chose Cold 3, Turmoil 3 and Growth 3 (for throwing in the grow vine-men spell too), does the passive summon vamp ability of the VQ require different scales or is it independent?

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

It's dominion dependent. The more candles, the more vampires. Thus, with a VQ, you want to take high dominion which also benefits her with the Awe ability (9-10 dom).

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

The problems with the VQ are manifold.

She has a really expensive face value, even in CBM.

She basically requires Dom9-10, but her starting dom is 1. (Dom 9 costs 252 points from Dom 1, and its another 63 points for Dom 10)

She's a rainbow, but it costs 30pts/path to actually use it (in CBM, not sure what vanilla is). And of course, any paths are on top of the already insane price.

So what are you paying for? She's immortal, thug quality (not really SC against players), stealthy, and magically diverse - but only if you pay for it! But she can't use all of these attributes at once!

The whole point of rainbows is labwork and research - something you're not going to shell out 100+ pts for just to have the chassis when there are 0 and 10 pt chasses available (CBM, but the discrepancy is even worse in Vanilla because all the relevant chasses are more expensive). So the fact that she can rainbow adds no real value.

You can buy a better SC for less points, even after you factor in the costs associated with developing enough magic to matter after you retire the SC from combat duty.

You can buy immortal pretenders who are cheaper, and have higher starting dom. At least one of which rainbows easier, and one of which 'SC's easier.

And since a pretender *cannot* do everything, you're always going to go with the pretender that's a better buy for what you do want it to do. The VQ is never the better buy, and therefore should never see play. Ok at everything and good at nothing is a recipe for failure.

I mean, even the nations that are given above do far better with other pretender options. You want B/D access? You can get it with a rainbow or a fountain of blood much cheaper than with a VQ.

Basically, you waste a lot of points on a VQ that could be better spent on adding to a pretender that does what you want, or taking better scales.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

True she is ridiculously overpriced in vanilla but in cbm she does have a narrow niche. Specifically when you want both an immortal thug and someone to summon national blood summons. eg.

LA Ulm has sanguine heritage for D3B3
A dom 9 VQ with B3D3 only costs 8 points more than a dom 9 B3D3 Lich.

Patala/Bandar Log have summon Dakini for A1B2
A dom 9 VQ with A1D2B2 is 2 points cheaper than a A1D3B2 Lich.
A dom 9 VQ with A1D3B2 is 14 points more expensive than a A1D3B2 Lich.
A dom 9 VQ with A1D3B4 is 18 points cheaper than a A1D3B4 Lich.
You may want to go to B4 to get easy access to blood boosters and summon mandeha.

So in those two cases the cost between a Lich and a VQ are roughly equal and the VQ is cheaper if you go up to blood 4 to get easy access to blood boosters. The VQ also becomes cheaper if you add on other paths either for magic diversity or better combat buffs.

You get higher hit points and protection with the Lich but the VQ gets flying, regeneration, and freespawn vampires which is a fairly even trade off imho.

Now personally I think the value of an immortal thug is questionable at best but if you want an immortal thug with blood access the VQ is not necessarily worse than your other options in cbm.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

well, I highly doubt BL or Patala can afford a dom 9 VQ since they need great scales to afford their castles (BL - 1200g basically everywhere) or top tier mages (450g Nagarishi for Patala).

They're also probably better off taking a Phoenix if they want immortal, although taking a pretender that wants dom9-10 is kind of questionable for them anyway. (Phoenix Dom 9 F1A1B2 is 196pts for Dom + 76pts for B2 + 50 pts for the chassis is vastly cheaper than VQ could hope to be, and you could invest the difference in fire for flaming arrows casting).

I also see no reason LA Ulm would take an immortal thug for a pretender when it'll summon plenty...

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

Bonfire, do your calculations with a Master Lich instead of a Lich, than you'll see the difference... basically a VQ with all that magic will be more in the lab than on the field, so if you insist on an immortal semi rainbow with high dom the Master Lich is the best chassis. moreover, the freespawn vampires is really not something you can rely on, even with dom10. remember that the freespawn ratio depend on the specific province you're in, so unless you're heavily pushing your dominion throughout your empire and your enemies, or your VQ spends all its time in your capital(than why take an immortal thug chassis in the first place...?) your VQ will be in lower dominion provinces which means very few freespawns...

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

Yes I realize the Master Lich is vastly cheaper for the same paths and dominion. You cannot however turn him into a thug. I never claimed the VQ was a wise investment because I don't think she is a wise investment. I merely said that she gets you a specific combination ,an immortal thug with high blood and low death, which is not always cheaper on another chassis.

Re: Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?
 

Patala/BL can get away with lots of free scales cause prod/death/heat doesn't do much for them. Also you need the higher dom because you need to spread their heat dominion. Death and Blood provide access to paths they don't have. For LA Ulm, it's both thematic and provides the easy route to a sanguine instructor. It also has more versatility in practice than the lich because it is stealthy, life drain and flight. In fact the lich/master lich is quite overhyped among newer players as a good chassis. =P

With those being said though, mind you in my Patala guide, I thought VQ was a fun suggestion and had actually stated in the same paragraph that the GK (though nerfed now?) was probably a better alternative if you're looking in that route. The Cyclops and Destroyer of Worlds aren't shabby either.

PS. If you play Vanilla. You can probably afford the VQ since scale hits aren't as brutal but VQ is pretty overcosted in Vanilla. =\