Mods to use!
 

Pardon me here...I am not comfortable using the search function here, and I would like some help.

I have the full version of Dominions 3 on its way, I expect to receive it early this next week. This is OK, as I need to spend some time researching the races, skills, and strategies before I actually start playing.

My question is an easy one...what mods are considered the most important to install and use for this game?

I keep reading a reference to CBM 1.6, and I have no clue what it is, or what it does, or where to find it.

I would also be interested in a play-balancing mod, one that makes more of the huge number of races more viable to play.

Again, sorry I couldn't find the answers to these questions, I realize that they have probably been asked more than once!

Re: Mods to use!
 

CBM is good as you say. I'll say "the most recent version" rather than 1.6 which I believe is still current.

Endgame Diversity is becoming popular and I like it. It improves end-game SC and thug summons, diversifying paths and making more good summons available at different (higher) levels.

The Debug Mod is excellent for testing things.

I also like

Streamers and Standards usually just in SP because the banners look cooler.

Worthy Heroes because it improves the value of Luck scales and makes the national heroes more interesting.

There are also a lot of interesting "race" and pretender chassis mods that I like. Nova Deus II, Immortal Pretenders (that's a shameless plug for mine). As for races I like Mistica (a new one I'm testing), and Nosophoros.

Re: Mods to use!
 

The developers have continued to provide free patches thru the entire life of the game (and another in the works). So unlike other games, there arent any must-have player created fixes IMHO. What is a very VERY large factor is that you download the latest patch (only the latest is needed to catch you up) and install that.
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwint...DOM3_page.html

CBM is the only one that might be considered IMPORTANT to install and use. And maybe EndGame Diversity.

But even thats a split opinion. CBM is supposed to balance the game but it makes so many changes that it becomes a choice of either knowing how to play with it, or without it. EGD is considered to be a fix for the limited end-game strategies that seem to show up with the cbm crowd.

My personal opinion is, why shorten the game? Dont be in a hurry. You can enjoy a year of solo play learning each of the nations and its quirks. If you find its imbalanced then take a look at one of the (3 at the moment) balance mod projects. If you decide you like solo and want a better AI then use one of the AI improvement projects. Or just the mods that add more nations into the game. More maps, more nations, more spells, more equipment.

And of course, once you find a nation that totally fits your gaming style, and some strategies you feel work well for you.. then there is always multiplayer games. Stretch it out. Enjoy it.

Re: Mods to use!
 

I'm going to do the completely expected and disagree with gandalf about vanilla and CBM not being cross compatible. Personally I've played with CBM in almost every single game I've ever played in multiplayer. But, I've played a few games under vanilla, and was never unduly affected by the differences in them because there's not too much that shifts around that is important to remembering how to play. Basically anything that works in vanilla will work in CBM. Going backwards is a bit harder, because CBM makes a larger number of strategies viable than are so under vanilla. You can still use them, but they are not going to be as efficient So to a certain extent, it does make sense to get a decent grounding in vanilla Dominions. However...

A) This is not super important in this community, because nearly every game started runs the latest version of CBM.

B) Most games that do not use CBM are noob games, so it's not really a big deal if they're not completely cross compatible :D You're not expected to do well here anyway!

And for the record, CBM stands for Conceptual Balance Mod, you can find it in the Scenarios, Maps and Mods subsection.

Re: Mods to use!
 

Thanks guys...this is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

I have the demo, and am busy playing the four factions available...up to game number 9 at this point, having got my backside handed to me each time.

Sure...yuck it up! I really don't have a strong clue on how to set up my pretender, or how to use the forces tactically.

Well...I will say that I looked at the wiki, and read just about everything there, except the 2100+ unit descriptions. That helps.

Re: Mods to use!
 

If you're having problems developing strategy, try one of the strategy guides:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38122

Re: Mods to use!
 

I do tend to forget.
Its true that over half of the MP games played in this forum use CBM. In one other forum, all of them do.
In two other forums it tends to be very very rare. I think about 1 in 10 of the mp games I play use it. But the forum you play in will make a large difference.

Re: Mods to use!
 

In the vein of teaching you to fish, I'd suggest that rather than attempt to use the forum's inbuilt search feature, you instead use Google. Just add the keyword "site:forum.shrapnelgames.com" (without the quotes) to your search expression, or use the Advanced Search link to the right of the main search input field and specify the shrapnel forums site in the "Search within a site or domain" field at the bottom.

If you've got a different favorite internet search engine, they all have similar options, although the syntax may vary.

Re: Mods to use!
 

The manual also helps with viable strategies for each nation. They're never *great* strategies, but they can help you beat a computer on normal or even hard. The manual says a little about thugs and SCs, but if you've read the whole wiki, then you may know more about them than the manual goes into.

There is one major strategy that works in Vanilla that doesn't in CBM: gem generators. CBM has limited their use drastically, so don't come up with a viable strategy with them, and then expect to play under CBM.

Re: Mods to use!
 

On the subject of strategy guides:
Ive seen complaints. But something to keep in mind is that we dont have guides the way other games have guides. We dont have step-by-step instructions that will work every time and get you to the place it says. The game is just too variable for that. Whether you consider that to be a good thing or a bad thing is point of view. Personally, if we DID have such guides then I dont think this would be the game that has lasted for years on my machines.

But I do wish every Dom3 strategy guide had a tiny print disclaimer at the bottom
"NOTE: Tested in (solo or mp) with xxxxx mods, on a ##-per-player province ratio,
and only if not starting next to xxxxxxxx nation"

Re: Mods to use!
 

I was a weather forecaster for 30+ years. I understand variables...as that is essentially what I did. I assigned a weight to a variable, applied a few mathematical constants, and guessed.

Also, I also understand that with 2000+ unit types, and 700+ spells, you are never going to get the same game twice in a row.

I tried to determine how many different types of race possibilities there would be in a large game, and gave it up. Billions.

Re: Mods to use!
 

Heehee. This game is going to drive you nuts if you try statistical analysis.

OK this is what you do as Ulm for the first few turns, but of course thats
IF you are middle age
IF you took a cyclops pretender with 9 earth and 9 nature
IF the other scales are standard
IF you dont start within 5 provinces of the following nations.....
IF you dont start within 10 provs of these other nations...
IF these 2 nations arent in the game at all
and of course if no game-altering mods were in use
And even if all of those factors are exactly the same as my test game there is still no guarantee that my suggestions will come anywhere close to giving you the same results. There is always the infamous DRN

OR on the other hand you might be in heaven like some other people.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38714

Re: Mods to use!
 

Don't they? At least the good ones. Not a formal note at the bottom, but I've very rarely been confused. I simply assume that strategy guides are for MP on 10-15 province/player maps.

If they mention CBM, or rely on features from CBM, they won't work in vanilla, otherwise they'll work in either. I've never seen one that relied on mods other than CBM without being explicit about it.

Guides for MP will work in SP. SP guides are either called out as such or ripped apart in the comments. Solo guides also tend to be written by excited new players, who'd be least likely to know about any guidelines anyway. If they made it explicit they'd get less hassle in the comments, I suppose.

No one writes guides for the extremely large games you sometimes play. Very few if any rely on small (~5 prov/player) maps. I'm curious to know of an example of a guide that you think wouldn't work with any of the standard 5/10/15 sizes. Those that warn of problems being rushed are already hinting at problems with smaller maps.

Seems to me that most notes would look the same
"Tested in mp (with CBM), on a (10-15+)-per-player province ratio"


As for "only if not starting next to x nations", are you really claiming it's necessary to test each strategy starting next to every possible other nation in mp? And probably against multiple strategies for each nation. No one does that. No one is going to do that. Usually, in a good guide, you get strategies for expansion, counters for the basic types of rushes and suggestions for the mid and late games. Focusing on what the nation usually has trouble with. You can't get more specific than that, because games vary so much.
I understand the rock/paper/scissors thing and some nations/strategies do have advantages against others, but there's a lot of flexibility as well. You have to be able to adapt, that's why the game keeps its appeal.

Re: Mods to use!
 

I probably should check my own and comply with my own suggestion before someone else hits me on it.

Since most of the guides here are for mp I guess that would make sense.


Oh god no. That was totally separate. More of an example of taking things with a grain of salt. No matter how good a guide is, there is a long list of variables which can affect the outcome.

I totally agree. This was just abit of a rant. In IRC I see jokes telling new players to be sure and use theNiefelheim guide on the wiki everytime its chosen in an mp game. They feel it sucks, but dont bother noting that its an SP guide.
Or they complain about Baalz guides being too optimistic and getting them killed.

Im with you. I stress that the guides are at best a list of tactics that work for one person in some games. They are meant to be added to the toolbox, not followed as a cheat-sheet. IMHO

One of my earliest Dom3 sigs says
"There cannot be a strategy guide for Dominions 3.
There are too many nations and too many options within each nation. There would have to be a Strategy Set of Encyclopedias. And even that would fall short."

Re: Mods to use!
 

A good strategy guide contains a diverse battery of tactics that can be used as a general guideline for available 4 and 5-star strategies. Just because it doesn't work in all cases doesn't mean that you should "take it with a grain of salt".

A strategy guide is more like the road map than the path you actually follow to get to your destination. There are lots of ways to get from one place to another, but until you know where you are, where you're going, and what's in between, you can't pick which roads to use.

Re: Mods to use!
 

[quote=Gandalf Parker;752593]I didn't know you had any strategy guides Gandalf. Do you have some links?

Re: Mods to use!
 

It does take some time to learn how dominions works and become able to achieve your first win over the normal AI. Don't be too embarrassed if it takes a while. Your first win will probably come as one of the traditional power races, probably using a bless strategy. I think it is at around the time that you get your first win that things start to really click.

Re: Mods to use!
 

It's pretty common here for people to bash the AI, claiming it's completely worthless and doesn't put up any challenge.
And it's both true and not true.

The AI is pretty competent at the things AIs do well. It can usually expand and build up big armies and attack you with them. This can be quite challenging, particularly with higher difficulty AIs and in the early game, where you don't have a lot of flexibility in beating big armies.
The problem is, the AI is basically a one-trick pony. And this is a complex game. There are counters for everything. And counters for the counters. And so on. The AI doesn't look at your strategy and adapt to it. So once you figure out how to beat big armies, you only have to tweak that strategy slightly to beat anything the AI sends at you.

Essentially you beat big armies with meat shields and mage artillery or with SCs. Particularly the latter. Once you can field single units that can't be hurt by sheer numbers, the AI loses.

Re: Mods to use!
 

The better independents mod found here is an absolute must if you want the AI to do more than throw hordes of indie chaff at you past the early part of the game.

Re: Mods to use!
 

You may wish to specify which IRC channel you're referring to. The IRC channel associated with this forum and Dom3mods forum, ie, the one someone might expect you to be referring to, is not the channel you're talking about.

That's the Goon's IRC channel, i believe. Which is associated with a different forum entirely.

Re: Mods to use!
 

Thanks for the reminder.
But I wasnt sure that it mattered which IRC. Just that Ive seen the comments.

Actually I dont refer to the Dom3mods forums IRC as this forums IRC either. It was never officially designated the way the wiki was. The Chat for this forum is the Chat on the button displayed on the forum (top of this screen near the Forum's Rules).

The Goons IRC would be another Ive seen it in. And the Q2Three channel altho not nearly as much since thats not strictly a Dom3 channel.

Every forum has their channels. There is no way Id be able to keep up if I didnt make them all noisy. "I can be summoned by the use of my name." The Chat here just bloops at me but the others actually speak my name out loud (I pipe it thru my server) and in some cases also text-message my cell phone for important key phrases.

Except of course for the Dom3Mods one you mentioned. :target:

Re: Mods to use!
 

Um, its not just the dom3mods irc channel. its the one specifically mentioned in the sticky on this forum, and has been associated with this forum longer than dom3mods has existed.

Re: Mods to use!
 

Yeah yeah I know.
Didnt mean to tick anyone off. Heck its been around longer than the Shrapnels Chat if I remember right.
Its probably about as close to official as you can get without Illwinter or Shrapnel saying so.
And definitely more lively.

Re: Mods to use!
 

What's so special about all these IRC channels?

Re: Mods to use!
 

Short Answer: Instant conversation.

LongerAnswer:
Everything has its pros and cons. If you are the kindof person who misses "chatter" or wants fast answers or faster moving games then learning how to use IRC can be rewarding. If you dont type well, tend to edit your posts over and over, rely alot on spell checkers and being able to take the time to look things up then maybe not.

Some people go beyond that and prefer a Skype group or some other voice chat. And some prefer webcam chats where you can see and talk. It can be a very different experience to be able to chat and blitz at the same time. I also really like white-board sites that allow the map to be uploaded and everyone can scribble things on it.

It should also be mentioned that just like the forums that tend to spawn them, different IRC communities have different feels to them. So if one turns you off you might hunt down another. The Chat here doesnt need any extra software (it works in your browser) and its the quietest that I know of. At most there have been 3 answerers in it at the same time and they all tended to be for different games. But its a way to get a taste of it

Re: Mods to use!
 

Oh I sort of meant what's the difference between them?

Re: Mods to use!
 

If you play any amount of single player, you will soon rn into the phenomenon of chaff hordes, meaning that no matter what AI nations you play against, you will soon be inundated with virtually indistinguishable hordes of chaff recruited from indie provinces, with few national troops mixed in.

If you want more nationally based AI armies in SP, you can use the Better Independents mod, which curtails the availability of the really bad chaff and makes for a more challenging single player game, especially against certain nations. The link to the BI mod thread is in my sig.

Re: Mods to use!
 

That's weird. I don't see any signatures.

Re: Mods to use!
 

There's a configurable option in the forums user preference section to show or not show signatures.

Re: Mods to use!
 

Thank you. I changed it.

Re: Mods to use!
 

Second Gandalf's opinion. Actually, I wouldn't even try to "research nations, strategies, etc." before playing. It's much more interesting to discover them by yourself. Of course, if you want to start playing MP right away, then you should know your nation and strategy before start - just to not be a boring opponent! Otherwise, it's better just to plunge in and see what interesting bits you'll discover. And another thing - many strategies you'll find here are min-maxed from a point of view of a particular player with his personal style of play. And sometimes they also require a particular patch or mod version to use verbatim, while before getting some personal experience you just don't see which things of them are more generally applicable.
The only thing I'd say is essential is "Lies my rulebook told me" thread. This you should study right after the above-said rulebook. ;)

Re: Mods to use!
 

Which opinion? He seemed to express a lot of them. I don't really follow this comment.

Re: Mods to use!
 

Look up his 1st post in this thread. ;) All my following words are growing from it..

Re: Mods to use!
 

I see a number of opinions expressed here Wrana.

1) There are no must-have player created fixes. Only the official patches are must-have.
2) CBM doesn't balance the game. It just changes it.
3) EDM is really only needed if you play CBM.
4) Play lot's of single player to stretch out your gaming of Dominions 3.

Which of these are you agreeing with? Or is there another in that post?

Re: Mods to use!
 

Of those I would agree with 1 and 4.

Re: Mods to use!
 

You mean "second" and "actually"? :p

Re: Mods to use!
 

I dont think that 2 and 3 were quite worded as I said. They assumed that I felt certain ways all the time.
I didnt say cbm doesnt balance. And I didnt say that edm is only needed if you play cbm. I like edm. But then I like anything that adds stuff to the game.

But its a slightly different discussion if you are trying to justify something as "must have". Its the unarguable importance that comes into question.

Re: Mods to use!
 

I paraphrased you. I think my paraphrase was a pretty accurate interpretation of what you wrote. Your paragraph regarding CBM is full of implicit criticism.

"CBM is supposed to balance but..." I don't think it's unreasonable to interpret this as a criticism of CBM. So if you didn't mean to criticize CBM perhaps you should work things differently.

"EGD is considered to be a fix for the limited end-game strategies that seem to show up with the cbm crowd."

Let's analyze this sentence. EGD is for the CBM crowd. EGD is a fix for limited end-game strategies used by the CBM crowd. Again, you imply that EGD if really only useful if you use CBM. And you imply that there is a "crowd" that plays CBM. You also set yourself outside this crowd and the use of the word crowd connotes "mob" or "clique". Again, there is implicit criticism.

So I stand by my analysis of your post. If you meant something else, you should have written something else. I can't possibly know what you meant to write.

And wrana is still being cryptic and not answering my very clear question.

Re: Mods to use!
 

Is it so difficult to find Gandalf's first post in this thread? Or the difficulty is with reading it? :p
I personally don't see that Endgame Diversity requires CBM nor its author ever said anything to this effect. Nor I see any such implication from Gandalf's post. ;)
As for your reading some "implied criticisms" into Gandalf's posts - maybe you should just look at what he actually says... ;)

More serious:
1st point you decided to isolate is the main part of the post in question. Other points were there mostly as examples.
About CBM - while I would be among the first to criticize that, I do not see it to be particularly criticized in Gandalf's post. What he says and I would second is that the latest developments made CBM quite unwieldy. I do not know whether it was its authors' purpose or not and I do not agree with some of their decisions. I agree with some of other ones. Your mistake here is that you want yes-or-no answer in a situation where one doesn't exist. It's the same as if you wanted to know which operation system is the best. :hurt:
About Endgame Diversity answered above.
About SP it's your call, Gandalf pointed out that it holds some interest, too. On the other hand, you should keep in mind that he's interested in tinkering with AIs. I play it periodically, especially as it's too late to study a nation or map in the middle of MP. This also makes me better player in midgame than lategame, though, as AI is weak in parrying lategame threats - a trade-off I'm OK with.

To Gandalf:
I thought 1 & 4 were in relation to my own reply as your post came online right after it, sorry. ;)

Re: Mods to use!
 

Gandalf's first post in this thread is the third post in the thread the one I quoted above. Unless there is a post invisible to me.