Question about radios
 

I have two questions:

What is the difference between ' R ' or ' * ' in the HQ list of units?

I'm unclear what the difference is between "C&C link to their immediate superior" and mere "radio contact"

Re: Question about radios
 

R Radio Contact
* Shouting distance.
The last probably gives a negligble rally boost I just worry about contact.

Re: Question about radios
 

Roger that. I did some investigation and have ascertained that the units with '*'s physically don't have radios. Moreover, I've noticed that the white '*' units are indicated as being 'in contact' (as are the white R units). My understaning would be that these units are rallyable and benefit from experience of the entire chain of command up to and including the group commander. However, the '*' units would be subject to some penalty in that regard.

My understaning is that the yellow R and '*' units would merely be influenced by their immediate formation leader; the yellow R units are described having 'radio contact' status. I need to verify this, but the yellow R units implies a red R of some superior in the chain of command. I don't have any units with a yellow '*' so I'm unclear what status they would have; yellow 'radio contact' for '*' unit would be oxymoron, no? I'd speculate that a yellow R fomation leader would imply a red R for their superior and all subordinate units of the red R would be either yellow R or '*'. (???)

Moreover, yellow R and '*' units would only be influenced for rally and experience purposes from the point of red R or '*' superior formation leader on down.

Clearly any '*' unit would ultimately lose ALL contact if they were outside of the 3-5 hex limit from their immediate formation leader; probaly showing as red '*' and probably 'out of contact' status.

Re: Question about radios
 

Me bad funny you know when playing but reported wrong.
As you said R have Radios * dont.
Colour gives contact
White = Shouting
Yellow = Radio
Red = Out of Contact

Re: Question about radios
 

:confused:

wht R A> 3rd Brigade HQ (contact)

wht R B0> HQ 1st Bn/7 Cav (in contact)
yel R B1> Art Liason (radio contact)
yel R B2> AF FAC (radio contact)

red R AF0> HQ 1 PLT B/2/5 (no contact)
wht R AF1> airmobile (in contact)
wht R AF2> airmobile (in contact)
wht R AF3> airmobile (in contact)
wht * AF4> MMG (in contact)
wht R AF5> heavy wpn (in contact)

Who is B1 & B2 in contact with? B0 or A?
AF4 is in voice contact only w/AF0 (voice contact w/either B0 or A is nonsensical). AF1-3 & 5 are in contact with A, B0 or AF0? AF0 not in contact w/neither A, B0 and AFx or only A & B0?

Re: Question about radios
 

Contact is in relation to your superior in the command net.

So AF0 has all his subordinates in contact, and thus may rally them.

But AF0 is not in contact with his superior - so cannot receive rallies from him.

The only thing to worry about is out of contact. Units out of contact will not have rallies from the boss, and cannot call for arty if FOO or commanders. Those are really the only penalties in SP for being out of command control.

So keep your platoon elements within 3-5 hexes of the platoon cmd and they will usually do fine for rallying even without radios.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Question about radios
 

Roger that about AFx.

What about B1 & B2?

Re: Question about radios
 

Based on Mobhacks previous answer what do you think?

Re: Question about radios
 

I'd guess that they'd be in radio contact w/B0 (out of verbal range or they'd have a white R).

However, given that C0 HQ A Co 1 Bn/7 has a white R and is 12 hexes from B0, and given that S0 Recce Plt 1/7 (P leader) has white R and is 20 hex distant from their immediate superior (C0), that theory can not be valid.

Re: Question about radios
 

Okay I did not really understand that & have no need to know where the units are.
Mobhack stated

So B1 + B2 can contact superiors buy radio.
B0 can also contact his superior AO & in fact is near by as has voice contact

As said before though the only ones you need to worry about are Red ones out of contact the rest look after themselves the games figured it out obviosly if you can contact your superior he can contact you.

I rarely use HQ screen for contact apart from maybe to check radio availability at start if its an early period game.
The units contact details show when you select it at the bottom of the screen & while not a hard & fast rule if you use move platoon leaders last they gets in less trouble so can rally others & can be moved to bring the others back into contact if need to.
If you have the CD & press the 5 key it even highlights who he is in charge of for you saving you many hours of game time if you play often.

Re: Question about radios
 

- emphasis mine

Really!

A0 is in voice contact with B0? They're 200 hexes apart!

C0 is in voice contact with B0? They're 12 hexes apart!

S0 is in voice contact w/C0 from 20 hexes away?

:confused:

I'm going out on a limb and speculate that white R at 200 hex separation means they got all bars. Yellow R means you got some bars and the call could get dropped. If I have yellow R and I move to w/in 4 hex of my superior, I'm gonna get a white R. While my phone may still have a bad connection: I gots contact because I'm w/in verbal range. Right? OR, by moving either B1 or B0, B1 may get a white R. But if B0 moves such that B1's connection is improved, it could adversely affect C0's comm link to B0 wherby C0 gets no bars to B0 (outright red R). Right?

Suppose B1 drops their call during a rally attempt, does that count against B0? Does that mean that even C0 - with white R - can't be rallied by B0 because B1's rally failed (on account of B1's dropped call)?

Re: Question about radios
 

Okay I am going to go out on a limb this is the situation at the start of the turn you are talking about NOT after you have moved units or turn 1?
The contact details are updated each turn not during it AFAIK.
Otherwise suggest you post the saved game & someone may look at it.
As all I do is look at out of contact units & follow the rules to bring them back into contact which works thats all I know as its all I need to.

I would say though & may well be wrong as just follow my gut now that units can sometimes maintain contact at longer range for a turn or 2 especially if trained to work independently like scouts.

Re: Question about radios
 

I'm on turn 9. A0 hasn't moved. B0 hasn't moved. C0 hasn't moved. However, B1 and B2 have moved and Sx also. The distances cited are where the units presently are.

Found this in the v5 Game Guide:

Unit Communications Status, On the unit information pane at the bottom of the screen, the unit's comms link status with its superior HQ is now noted. The selected unit shown is 'In Contact' and so will be able to be rallied by its HQ, however if it is out of contact (shown in red) then it can only be rallied by its own leader. Radio contact is OK, but the <i>link is not 100% reliable</i>!

I understand CHQ link status is evaluated at the beginning of the turn.

Based on that and what Imp & Mobhack have said: 'in contact' means solid CHQ link, i.e., either verbal or by radio (in the latter case you gots all the bars). If yellow R you have CHQ link by radio only, but you gots only some bars (your call could be dropped), i.e., potential gibberish, static or congestion on the comm link. at the moment a rally attempt is made - with yellow R - either the superior might not hear the sitrep (rally call), or encouragement / directives might not be received by the subordinate in need of rally. Just speculating on all that. :confused:

Based on my understanding of how rally works, in the latter case the superior would get relieved of rally points ('cause a rally went out from the superior), but the subordinate would fail rally (rally didn't get through). In the former, the superior no get relieved rally points (never heard sitrep needing rally so rally never issued), subordinate fails rally (no rally made it back to subordinate from superior). I have no idea if the game engine is sophistated enough for that.

My understanding of how rally works is that the superior is relieved of rally points for each successful rally. When superior's rally points goes to zero, subordinates can only rally themselves. This implies that the subordinate has to make a 'savings throw' in order for a rally to be successfull. If the subordinate fails its savings throw, the superior loses ALL their rally points (and can not rally any additional units).

Perhaps the game engine is simplistic in the sense that a yellow R decreases the subordinates 'saving throw', i.e., increased odds of rally failure and ANY failed rally will result in the superior losing all their rally points. :confused:

I'm just trying to get the handle on what "not reliable" means in comparision to "in contact". Because you can be in contact and fail a rally, no? If the simplistic case is the truth of the matter, that's bad. A faulty radio comm link buried in the middle of a comm net that results in rally failure will ALSO spoil rally for ALL other subordinates that might be in need of rally by that superior; they'll only be rallyable be the next superior subordinate to that one, or themselves.

I could see the simplistic way of doing it too though. Any failed rally regardless of cause - flakey radio comms or not - will result in the superior having a nervous breakdown and be unable to rally anybody else for the rest of the turn.

Re: Question about radios
 

Okay lets clarify
White is solid contact so I think of voice not radio as it often is but you dont realy need to know.
Yellow is radio only

It can lose contact as short range radios do.
Modern times this wont happen to often old systems its more common.
This is coded in a 1950s radio is not as good as a 2000 radio plus the country.
USAs radio is probably more reliable than Chinas in 1950 for example plus more units will probably have them.
From the GG

Quote:

This leader provides rally opportunities for his subordinates but when 'command' is set to on in the preferences (and only absolute beginners turn this reality setting off!) then he must be in contact with his subordinate in order to command him. For units with a radio, this can be anywhere on the map. Provided the radio is working at that point in time. All radios have a chance not to be in contact, and so are never as reliable as voice range communications.

Quote:

Back to game detail, still on command and control here. Your commander must be in a fit state to rally subordinates, if he is retreating or worse, then he has no command influence, so you may need to rally him first! Also, before you do rally subordinates, check the commander's status, as if he fails a rally on a subordinate, that is all his rally chances gone for this turn, it can be embarrassing to have rallied all your men back to 'ready' status, and be about to move forwards to find the platoon (or company!) commander is 'pinned' because you forgot to rally him a little in the process. Do not just select units and hit the 'R' key is the motto really, look at all the subunits of a formation, and their current state and plan your rallying. Also note that rallying comes from the top down, hitting the R key on a squad will use the Company Commander's rally attempts then the Platoon Commander's before trying the squad sergeant's. This may not be what you wanted, again, think a bit before poking that R key. When a unit fails to rally itself or its subordinate, its rally chance statistic is set to 0 until next turn, this confused some end users who thought the unit was a hopeless rally case, no, zero just means that it has failed a rally attempt, and so cannot rally again this turn. The number returns at the beginning of the next move.

May I suggest you read the game guide I read it years back & have no intrest in going through it again so I get the terminology right.
If you find searching easier in PDF format rather than HTML download it here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45615&highlight=Format
Try searching for radio or rally or doing the same on the forum then asking for clarification if you dont understand.

Re: Question about radios
 

Huh? What do you think the purpose of this discussion forum is? So all you guys can discuss how much you know? Know this? Yep. Cool. Know that? Yep. Cool. I bet you know this too, eh? No, that's a new one. Oh, man RTFM!

I am NO stranger to various technical discussion/support forums. While those who ask the same question already asked & answered 100,000,000,000 times on the forum are tedious (and God helps those that help themselves is an excellent guiding principle for one's life - despite such concept being wholly alien to the Gospel - RTFM is nevertheless, and that notwithstanding, very, very sage advice), I absolutely detest and despise - holding those individuals beneath contempt - who try to 'help' by posting a three paragraph derogatory declarative about RTFM. The very least that can be done in such cases - if one truly has an interest in being helpful - at the VERY MINIMUM provide a link where the question has been answered for the 10,000th time (or cite chapter & verse in the manual). You've done none of that except in your latest reply.

You state several times now that you don't care 'bout details and talk down to me, but the details bite you in the derriere every single time.

To whit, from the GG (Unit Information Screen):

- [emphasis MINE]

What do you think that means in the context of my confusion about 'in contact' and 'radio' CHQ link? I'd suggest that YOU refrain from providing 'assistance'.

Here's a tip for ya: get a personality. You get ONE chance to make a first impression. You come across as somebody who's only intrest is brow beating those less experienced by blowing them kisses. You know why I say that about you? Because I smell farts.

:eek:

I've noticed the number of 'views' my three initial questions have garnered grows daily. And yet NOBDDY else has offered any assistance other than Mobhack. So what can I conclude, either they're all just a bunch of noobs who're too afraid of a raptor like you decending onto their necks?

There's SO MANY people posting on the boards nobody can keep track of it all anymore, eh? The big warning sign was the multi-tomed legal document I had to sign prior to being allowed to post here just to ask a freaking question.

Re: Question about radios
 

Whoah, Raygun, chill a little.

I think you are a little confused about the game mechanics, but they're not as complicated as you are contemplating. (And to answer one of your questions, yes, I am a noob!) A unit either has a radio or it doesn't. The radio is either working each turn, or it is not. The likelihood that it will work each turn is dependent upon the nationality and year of the battle. Radio contact works anywhere on the map. Voice contact works within 5 hexes. EITHER will make a unit "in contact." Being in contact allows rally attempts from the unit's leader, and if the leader is in contact with his superior, the bottom unit can rally from the leader's leader, on up the chain. Attempts start at the highest part of the chain first. As far as I know, that's the plain and dirty of the game mechanics of contact, which determines who can rally whom. I also believe that you are correct that each successful rally attempt lowers the leader's rally number slightly, for that turn. An unsuccessful attempt drops it to zero for the turn => no more rallying for him that turn.

A unit either has a radio or it doesn't

The radio is either working each turn, or it is not.

If the radio is not working at the beginning of the turn, what is the point of 'radio contact'? Wouldn't that be a red R or *?

What the heck is yellow anything? I could speculate that a yellow * means its too loud - or far away - to hear voice comms w/100% accuracy. But I don't even konw if yellow star is possible (sounds like an exe hack).

I see 'probabilities' brought into the mix several times. When do these 'probabilities' manifest themselves?

If I have a star I don't have a radio. What color is my star? I guess it would depend how far away from the boss I'd be, eh? If I have a star and I'm 6 hex away from my boss, the star be red. Mooo?

Let me ask: is it possible to have a red R and be 2 hex away from the boss?

I pretty much understand EVERYTHING after this statement:

I'm fully cognizent that a * means you aint got a radio to be even getting any bars whatsoever; if you're farther than 4 hex from the bossman, you're on your own w/respect to rally. So what is a yellow R in the context of rally? What else does 'contact' (or lack thereof) have to do with anything except for rally? I understand that the player can turn a unit over to AI and CHQ experience plays a role in that then (so radio / verbal comms link may be important there).

It almost seems as if I'm hearing: Don't worry 'bout nuthin but red anything. As long as it aint red, you're good.

Re: Question about radios
 

1) Why should/would I go through the game guide or search the forum when you can do that just as easily. If there was a suitable post I could remember would have mentioned but gave you the link for GG PDF to get you started as thought that might be useful as from memory most of its in there.

2)
Yes stated at least twice don't care about the details, why because you only need to worry about out of contact the game does the rest no need to over complicate.

Did state last post

Re: Question about radios
 

****ty attitude aside, I am not sure what you are asking exactly.
A unit with a radio can have contact with its superior with its radio or if the superior is close enough, by shouting/etc.
When said unit you press the R for Rally, then when the unit try to contact its superior will do so and hopefully get some help. To get help it needs the contact I mentioned. There are two ways that it won't get Rally help from superior. One, if the unit is out of contact. Two, if it is in radio contact but when you try to ask for help (pressing R) there is an interruption (which is not shown as specific message of failed communication but as a fail at rallying or even while you see your unit is in contact with its superior, you still don't get any help because of said failure).

Even if there is contact 100% working, the rally can still fail. Such is life.

Re: Question about radios
 

Yep, not everyone in the squad under MG fire might be that keen to listen to that *** Bn Commander shouting at them through PL leader's radio to charge ;)

Btw toying in an experimental scen with using comms for artillery management, so that say mortars attached to support a company have no radio and can be called only by the given company (granted they maintain contact with Coy commander).
or that a howitzer battery (on board) has to have contact with bty commander or else FOs cannot direct them.

Re: Question about radios
 

People use diffrent terminology when it comes to arty so I will use Squad terminolgy.
By Bty Commander do you mean company or platoon leader?
If platoon & maybe I am unlucky when my arty seperates due to repositioning often get intermitent contact till they are back to 3-4 hex range.

Re: Question about radios
 

[link to off-topic drivel removed]

Re: Question about radios
 

Well - that was completely off topic for the thread.

Please immediately read and make sure you understand the Forum Rules, specifically section #2. They are available via the link at the top of this section entitled "Forum Rules".

The Forum Rules are not optional!.

Andy

:hurt:

Please delete my account and all its associated postings.

I have NO desire whatsoever to associate with ... yourself.

:down:

Re: Question about radios
 

He will be a joy to play in PBEM.

Re: Question about radios
 

Wow. That was...interesting...raygun's 26 consecutive harassing posts have been moved to moderation and his account banned. Thank you for the report.