Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

The stars have aligned and it is that time again, time to learn about another Pretender in my ongoing, if slowly updated, Better Know a Pretender series. Today, I bring you the Green Dragon.

Better Know a Pretender: the Green Dragon

“A dragon lives forever,
But not little girls and boys.
Painted wings and giant things
Make way for other toys.
One grey night it happened,
Jackie Paper came no more
And Puff that mighty dragon,
He ceased his fearless roar.

His head now bent in sorrow,
Green scales fell like rain,
And Puff no longer went to play
Along that cheery lane.
Without his life-long friend,
He could not be brave,
So Puff that mighty dragon
Sadly slipped into his cave.” - from “Puff the Magic Dragon,” by Peter, Paul, and Mary

Cost: 50
Base Dominion: 1
HP: 125
Size: 6
Strength: 25
Attack: 15
Defense: 12
Precision: 12
Base Protection: 18 (no armor)
Starting Magic: Nature-2 and 80 points per new path
Starting equipment: Bite (Damage: 2, Attack: 0, Defense: -1), Claw(Damage:0, Attack:0, and Defense: 0), and Bile (a special ranged weapon, does significant poison damage in AoE: 3, but short, strength based range and only ammunition: 5).
Movement: 3 and Flying
Base Encumbrance: 3
Miscellaneous: Fear+5, 100% Poison Immune, Shape Changes into Master Druid, and Suffers -2 Magic Penalty in Dragon form, e.g. has Nature-5 in Druid shape, but only Nature-3 in Dragon shape.
Availability: Most land nations, especially human land nations.

Summary: Though this write up focuses on the Green Dragon, much of what is said can be easily applied to the Blue and Red Dragons as well. Dragon Pretenders are excellent Super Combatants from the get go, which come with mobility and magical aptitude in a single path.

Pros: An excellent, Turn-2 (or Turn-1 if the player feels lucky) expander. Unlike its immediate competitor the Wyrm, the Green Dragon comes with flight, a base magic path, substantially more protection, and in human form can equip any item type which greatly increases the Dragons ritual casting capabilities.

Cons: A paltry base Dominion of 1 means spending a lot of points to get the Dragon up to Dominion-9 for Awe+0. Unlike the Wyrm, the Dragon does not come with Regeneration ultimately making it easier to kill. The exorbitant cost for new magic paths (80 design points) greatly limits the Dragon's diversity, thus not a strong candidate for Sleeping.

Awake Strategy: First, buy Dominion-9. A second path is probably out of the question. However, this alone is enough to let the Dragon take provinces right from the get-go, without equipment or casting. Just script the Dragon (in Dragon form) to (hold and fire)x5, followed by either more firing or just outright attacking. Obviously avoid the usual independent SC killers such as undead and darkvines, but also avoid provinces with large numbers of crossbowmen (that AP damage is killer). Fatigue is the Dragon's major weakness, and even though the Green Dragon has a lot of HP, it will take damage and eventually an unlucky hit will cause some afflictions. Do not panic, but be prepared to have to retire the Dragon from SC duty. Later, the player should look to cast Personal Regeneration and Elemental Fortitude (in human form, followed by shape shifting). Barkskin is not worthwhile, since it only adds 1 protection while giving 25% fire vulnerability.

Typical Equipment Includes: The Dragon only comes with three slots, a head slot and 2 miscellaneous. Any other gear equipped while the Dragon is in human form is lost when he shape shifts. This greatly limits his ability to be a competitive SC past year 2 without further mage support. Still, there is a lot that can be done with those three slots. On the head, the Horror Helm is fantastic since it provides a lot of protection and further boosts the Dragons formidable Fear to +10. Also worthy of consideration is Black Steel Helm (cheap, Construction-0, and provides the best additional protection), the Dragon Helm (still cheap, provides 50% fire resistance which combines with Elemental Fortitude for Fire Immunity), and Horned Helm (cheap, gives a third attack, unfortunately lowers defense). For those miscellaneous item slots, the most desirable item is an Amulet of Resilience which solves the Dragon's fatigue weakness. That leaves just one final slot, and the player must decide how to fill it based on expected opposition. A Lukcy Pendant is a solid choice and helps against melee foes who can ignore Awe (such as the undead). An Anti-Magic Amulet is useful against mage supported armies, especially those with Astral magic. The various element immunity rings are rather obvious, as is the Amulet of Water Breathing. Finally, the Amulet of Missile Protection may be necessary to take on large archer and more dangerously crossbow armies.

Bless Strategy: A nature bless can be very utilitarian. Any unit benefits from regeneration, though units with higher HP or extra protection more so, and buying Nature-4 on the Green Dragon is a cheap way to pick a useful bless while retaining an awake Super Combatant pretender. Furthermore, the cheap base cost means the Dragon can be a cheaper way to pick up a much higher Nature Bless than many other chassis, though its base Dominion score of 1 makes the math less rosy. Also, be warned that Nature-9 can be a double edged sword. The ability to berserk and become immune to routing can be very useful for infantry. Unfortunately, sacred mages if blessed and damaged also go berserk. Buying a second path for bless purposes is very expense and rarely worthwhile on this chassis.

Army Strategy: Here is where the Dragon's flexibility starts to shine. Want a vicious monster SC? Easy. However, there are also a lot of Nature based, army wide buff spells. A high level mage can cast multiple of these spells and greatly increase an armies survivability. Thus, the Dragon shifts to human form, equips a Thistle mace or a Treelord's Staff and a Moonvine bracelet if the nation has it, and casts some battle changing buffs. The big ones are: Relief (Enchantment-6) , Mass Protection (Alteration-7), Mass Regeneration (Enchantment-8), and situationally Growing Fury (Thau-5). Alternatively, other mages can buff the Dragon with magic from other paths allowing him to become a much stronger Super Combatant. Options include Luck, Quickness, and Anti-Magic.

Magic Diversity Strategy: The Green Dragon does not provide much in the way of diversity, except for Nature magic, of course. Adding any other path is really expense and not terribly useful for improving expansion (Air is an exception due to Air Shield). Yet, for nations without Nature Magic, getting it is a big deal. Finding a Nature-1 independent mage is fairly easy. Getting him or her a Thistle Mace to grant Nature-2 is much harder, and a lot more spells and forging options open up and Nature-2 including remote site searching. Other useful nature equipment includes Rings of Regenerations, Amulets of Resilience, Vine Shields, Boots of the Messenger, Hydra Skin Armor, Endless Bag of Wine, Vine Bow, and the Vine Whip. Also, the Green Dragon, in human form, should be in good position to do some early site searching, once conquest immediate conquest is done, and build up a reservoir of Nature gems. In particular, casting the globals rituals Mother Oak (Alternation-5) and Gift of Health (Enchantment-5) are great ways to boost a player's mid-game. Gift of Nature's Bounty (Enchantment-9) is also an enormous money booster, though by the time the player is able to cast it, the gem cost (70) might be more valuable than the extra gold (+20% for each level of dominion). Conjuration does not provide a lot of cost effect summons, but Faerie Court does give another Nature Mage, with Air-3 and healing.

Conclusion: Honestly, the Wyrm probably remains a safer and, due to the difference in base dominion, cheaper option for early expansion. However, the Green Dragon (and any other Dragon) shine on maps with rough terrain. In addition, the Dragon lets the player immediately and cheaply break into a single path without sacrificing early expansion. Once the expansion role is done, the Dragon can shift to more magic, less brawn roles.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

I can add that Green Dragon is great dominion pusher and could be used for domkill strategy due to his great mobility and stealth in human form.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Very nice writeup, some additional points:

I'd like to add that if you do want to add a second path, death is a very good choice.

It gives you more fear, is a useful lategame path to add if your nation don't have it, allows you to summon lamia queens for more diversity, and let's you cast soul vortex to stay a viable SC through the midgame.

Also, with that high nature maxing out regeneration isn't a bad idea. Adding a ring of regeneration more than doubles your regen compared to just casting personal regeneration. For example; in a dominion of 3 with nature 6(8 on druid form) you get 46 with a ring compared to 20 without.

In CBM the bile has AOE 10 and you get 20 prot, making the dragon much more viable.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Dragons also don't need Dom9 to be SCs, so a respectable Dom 5-6 can be sufficient. This is the major advantage of the Wyrm - dom 9 is cheap - but the Wyrm doesn't have the high protection to rely on. (Do playtest to see how much of a difference this makes in your willingness to attack various indies, as obviously dom9's awe does increase survivability, and that may be a factor against some indies).

Which isn't to say the classic awe-fear combo isn't nice. But that dom9 is awful expensive starting from dom1.

(Blue Dragons may be the best dragon for early expansion without dom 9 because water magic improves their defense stat).

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Somewhat true, but the Master Druid form of the Green Dragon does not come with stealth. Unless...

Holy cow! The Green Dragon is already an excellent expander. Just doing the math in my head, it could probably kill off 30 some infantry before even reaching the beast. It would just take a few turns for the dying to set in. That really is an enormous, and in my mind unnecessary, buff.

True, but I think its the difference of being able to take 90-95% of provinces, and 80-85% of provinces. The difference is not enormous, but the trick is figuring out which provinces cannot be taken. Since these guides are primarily written for novices, I gave the "path of least resistance." Also, more hits (due to lacking Awe) means more afflictions. Obviously, less Dominion means less Dominion spread means less Dominion related bonuses and potentially having to fight outside of friendly dominion.

Still, if the saved points are used to buy a second path, I think you are right that it can be worth it. Fantomen suggested Death and gave good reasons for it (though the extra Fear from Death is somewhat muted in Dragon shape). I think Air, depending on diversity needs, is a better choice. Immediately it provides a great deal of protection from a Dragon's major weakness, arrows and especially crossbolts, by casting Air Shield. Later, Air would grant acces to Mirror Image, Mistform, and Shock Immunity for SC duty. Or, it can cast the buffs/debufss Wind Guide, Storm, Mists, Arrow Fend, and possibly Fog Warriors.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

I was thinking about scales, actually. A lot of nations who can benefit from an awake SC can also benefit from decent to good scales. (Recruit anywhere mages wanting a good cash supply, old mages wanting growth scales, etc...).

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

I'm pretty sure the Master Druid is stealthy(at least under CBM), so I got to assume the Green Dragon in its Master Druid form will also be stealthy.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

it takes about 10 seconds to test. the druid form of the dragon is indeed stealthy

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Geez, do you guys think I did not do my due diligence?

The Green Dragon does not have stealth in human form.

CBM does give him stealth in human form for whatever rationale, but none of my guides have ever been written for CBM. The mod simply does far to many radical changes (especially regarding pretender design) to be incorporated into a general guide.

Still, if anyone who cares will know in CBM 1.6 (and possibly earlier versions) give the Master Druid Stealth+20, and this carries over to the Green Dragon.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

well, to be honest, posting guides on *this* forum almost automatically assumes you're using CBM, cause vanilla is like almost unheard of around here... now, the wiki and other forums are something else, but here it's CBM all the way...

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

The dragon form has stealth in CBM as well?

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Right, in CBM I agree on not needing awe, 20 armor is enough to take care of most indies. I think the rational for increasing the poison attack is that, left as is in vanilla, it simply does not compare to the fire or ice attacks of the other two dragons.

Don’t miss our special offer: let your Dragon out expanding without awe, collect all possible afflictions and get a free title ‘Dragon of thousand wounds’.

Seriously, I have seen in several MP games aweless Dragons of my opponents been killed by independents, or had mass afflictions after expansion stage. Also I had personal negative experience: in YARG game I used Blue Dragon with dom7. On turn 7 or so he had received a lucky hit from militia troop and ‘Disease’ affliction was successfully added to his already present ‘Limp’ and ‘Chest wound’. Very next turn he received ‘Mute’ as a result of disease, and it didn’t go well with my long-term strategy.
It isn't nessesary you will repeat my story, but tests I made afterwards displayed Dragon without Awe is a gamble. If you feel lucky - sure, try it, I know I won't anymore.

Another thing I understood through my experience: Pretender SC’s should be expandable. I see no sense of spending too much design points on someone who’s main job is to risk his life on the battlefield. Adding extra death path on the Dragon costs a lot, but he is capable of expanding early without it and Fear and Soul Vortex wouldn’t save him from horde of undeads + Rigor mortis in midgame. IMO SC’s are better combined with high dominion and good scales, if strong death magic is so viable for the nation it is better to choose another pretender.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

That may be half true. The Blue Dragon has the best breath attack: AoE:3, AP, and high damage. That being said, I think the Green Dragon actually does comparable damage, its just damage delayed due to the nature of poison. On the otherhand, the Red Dragon has the worst breath attack because it is only AoE:1. The damage in that one square is great, but none of the Dragons have the precision to be accurately hit a single square, even at close distances. Larger Area of Effects help this, somewhat.

Perhaps more importantly, all of the breath weapons on the major three Dragons are a sideshow, a little something to do to weaken the enemy before engaging in melee and routing the enemy with Fear while staying alive with high protection and HP. The more important reason to choose one Dragon over the other is to pick up an important magic path for diversity. Even the Red Dragon, probably the weakest of three though still fine for Turn-2 expansion, lets an Archery heavy nation without fire magic cast Flamming Arrows.

Just checking out the new Green Breath Attack, it confirmend by suspicions. With a larger Area of Effect, it misses less often while poisoning a lot more soldiers. The average independent walks away from a bile attack taking 2-4 poison damage the first round. Under CBM, soldiers easily take 2 doubling that and insuring their eventual demise.

Its hardly game breaking in the grand scheme of things, but AoE:10 definitely makes the Green Dragon better than the other two by a long shot.

@Foodstamp, No Dragon has stealth in Dragon form, not in the game and not in CBM.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Well, of course they are more vulnerable without awe, but awe+0 costs 250(!) design points on a dragon.

Granted, my aweless dragon would simply be a caster by midgame, maybe with an affliction or two, but having awe isn't really going to change that situation; the midgame is simply a dangerous place for a big green monster with few slots.

I guess I just see the dragon as a cheap early expander who is a good choice for nations that lack decent starting troops but need good scales. I lack your bad experiences with the dragon too, though there is a significant risk of getting afflictions, true.

However, I did try something similar to your example for a recent game (that's now going poorly for me :))

As MA Ctis I chose an awake, dom4, earth4, n4 dragon with good scales (O3H3D1M3). I took earth for a few reasons: 1: ctis has none of it and earth is one of the hardest magics to bootstrap. 2: it boosted his protection by 2. I know that sounds funny, but in tests that seemed to make a significant difference in how often he would get early-expansion-afflictions. Lastly the E/N bless is helpful (but maybe not worth it in retrospect) for some of their sacreds.

In tests and in that particular game, the dragon fulfilled his job quite well, boosting initial expansion without being too vulnerable. When he got himself killed in that particular game, I found that (when resurrected) in druid form he still had N3E3! I'm not sure why this happened, perhaps because he was killed in dragon form? Anyway, it was a bonus because he was still a valuable earth-caster-forger in that case.

Anyway, I think we just have a different cost-benefit opinion of early SCs, a dragon with awe still looks tasty to me, just not my flavor.

@OmikronWarrior

You make good points but I think that you are mixing up the CBM green dragon with its Vanilla counterparts. I was referring to the CBM dragons.

In CBM, the dragons all have boosted aoe attacks, I don't know how else the stats have been modified. But still, the green dragon may be the best for the reasons you mentioned.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

I wouldn't compare a dragon and a wyrm. They fill different roles in my opinion. Wyrms are pure SCs, expendable, better used with awe and 0 magic path.
Dragons are early expanders, not expected to last long in this role (whereas a magic-less wyrm remains efficient longer) and a good single-bless chassis.
I prefer blue dragons over the rest because an F bless is somewhat limited, while W increases the dragon's defense and is more useful in general (at W9). Nature can be a good bless, but those nations that benefit from it most will likely want an E bless on top (all giants). The bile attack of the green dragon in vanilla is just worthless, whereas the ice breath is useful, if not much.

In my opinion, your pick a dragon because you want to expand fast and benefit from a bless (I got some good results with W9 blue dragons with EA T'ien Ch'i for instance). Once you've built enough armies that your dragon no longer has indies to take out, bring him back to a lab, or a province where you want to push your dominion, and have him forge stuff/research until he is needed for a battle with some army support.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Ressurected pretenders loose 1 point in each magic path. Since your Pretender was originaly N4E4 - after ressurection he becomes N3E3.

Sure, I was just sharing my personal experience, so people who want to try Aweless Dragon were aware about possible consequences.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Oh right, I was confusing the effects of pretender-death with those of the "mute" affliction.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Care to explain why Wyrms remain as efficient SC's longer than Dragons?

Just looking at stats, the Wyrm does have the advantage of natural regeneration, some extra HP, and a second head. That is not really a deal breaker either way.

I think you mean to say that Wyrms can be killed and do not loose paths because they did not have them to start. OK, there is a lot of truth to that. Still, a good player can manage risk and still use a Dragon very effectively in combat depending on the opposition. Also, there is not a lot of difference that I can think of between a Nature-5 and a Nature-6 human mage. Meaning if enough Nature is bought, loosing one in a path is not a deal breaker.

There is really nothing here that is not in my write up, except the bit about the Blue Dragon being best (nothing else considered), which is probably true. I do disagree about the breath attack being worthless. A sideshow, yes, but it can and will kill enemy troops. Yet, the reason to pick any Dragon is the extra path is provides (and flying).

That being said, I think Pretenders should be approached in a more general sense when writing guides about them. There are multiple reasons to pick a Pretender, I view my job is to explain those reasons, then explain what the Pretender can do, and then leave it up to reader to figure out what he or she (OK, he) wants to do with the Pretender. This is especially important because a lot of Pretenders are available to multiple nations and giving a specific strategy for one nation might not easily transfer to others.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

one VERY important point to consider with green dragon is its ability to (barring a nasty mute or feeblemind affliction) cast Gift of Health; which can cure any afflictions he's gotten earlier, as well as even being able to heal a feeblemind or mute gotten after you've cast it (as long as you still live). GoH + regen is always strong, and lets the dragon be quite dangerous defensively even later in the game. Of course whether you can get up GoH in a game depends a lot on game size and your nations, but it's an important point to consider for the green d.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Yes I mean wyrms remain as effective as they were in the start even after dying a few times. The regen is somewhat useful, but the green dragon can get personal regen pretty fast.
Also, although wyrms don't fly, they are amphibious. That is a huge difference that must be considered in my opinion. Dom2 blue dragons were really worth considering because they could go underwater, but in Dom3 they can no longer do that unequipped.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Well, if you give a Wyrm a Wraithcrown, the ability to add a second head item should go a long ways towards increasing the Wyrm's power. Even just slapping 2 horned helmets on a Wyrm will make it more surviveable (and more dangerous) against hordes of chaff in the early game, and you can trade these out when you're ready.

Since you've already got regeneration, the addition of a reinvigoration amulet can help solve the fatigue problem, and an amulet of magic resistance can go a ways to ward off spells.

Nothing's gonna keep the Wyrm around forever against a determined enemy with enough power and tricks up their sleeve, but I have to agree that a well kitted Wyrm is a more pure, and longer lasting, SC than a dragon. And if you never put any paths on it, you don't lose too much by continually resurrecting a unit that's at the very least going to remain a decent thug.

Speaking of which, one of the best uses I feel that a dragon can be put to, is adding another source of damage to your Nation. Shock isn't available (for some reason? This would have been a great place for an Asian dragon Pretender), but if you've got poor access to fire, cold, or poison damage, a dragon might be just the thing. Using it as a pure SC will quickly get your dragon killed off, but you can still resurrect them in the mid-game, and then use them for combination attacks. If you're a poison-dealing Nation, then poison PLUS fire. If you've got lightning, then lightning PLUS cold. With the dragon's wings and natural resilience, this gives you a decent first-response option, and maybe the key to winning some battles against a Nation that didn't expect fire (or poison) from Niefelheim or Eagle Kings.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Awake blue dragon with W9 + Nations with access to sacred undead = very efficient combo

Who cares if he dies after early game?- early expansion + bless benefit reap the fruits throughout the game, anything more from him is an added bonus.

I personally love the blue dragon. Too bad they took out his water breathing.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

It doesnt. But here is a tactic to consider
NOTE: This is for Green Dragon with the CBM mod only

Both forms have a leadership of 80. If its used with a nation that has stealth units then a new tactic comes into play. Give it some decent support units that are stealthy. Move it past the front lines of your enemy, or just skip the hard independent provinces for ones farther out. Then change from Druid form to Dragon form. You dont need to do anything else. Combat will occur the next turn and the dragon will have the support of all who followed him.

Or you can use the attack province command if you want the Druid to cast a couple of buffs before changing form. But I have found that the lag before the dragon can get into the fight can hurt you bad.

Setting the Dragon in the back gives the forward units a chance to draw the attacks of lances and archers. Setting the dragon to attack once then fire (breath) or attack rearmost or attack archers can be quite effective to getting it deep into the enemy.

Remember that taking high dominion can be a big help here. Domkill ability, more HP, more protection against enemy dominion, and it gives the dragon AWE.

WARNING: the obvious thought is to make use of the Dragons major HP with godly boost to its HP. But do not wander too far outside of your dominion with the Druid. His move drops to 2 in that form and he only starts with 10 HP. If you dont watch closely you can let his HP drop dangerously low. But if you move priests behind his advance to build up dominion then you can always fly him back to his own dominion for a power-up. Bringing along a stealth prophet can help.

Added Note: Dont bother using this with Pangaea. It might seem logical but it works just as well with their national pretender of Carrion Dragon which carries other benefits including a more robust alternate form. The Carrion Dragon can can also use this tactic in the vanilla game. Great support stealth armies, a dragon with fear +10, but no flight. Also the flying scouts of Pangaea help. You can quickly locate enemy capitals and might manage to take one or two during the early setup stage of the game when they are caught unprepared since you wont have to fight the whole way to reach them.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Can't the Dragon take most indy provinces on his own? That's the whole point of an expansion pretender, after all. And since he can fly, he can bypass hard ones without wasting turns sneaking.

The stealth form may be of more use in late game raiding. Fly in, take a province, change forms and sneak away before a counterattack can teleport in.

There may be cases where leading stealth troops in is more useful than the flying mobility. I suspect I'd be more inclined to use other stealthly leaders and combine to attack when needed.

I don't have the game in front of me at the moment. If the Druid sneaks to an enemy provinces, changes form and flies to a second enemy province, what happens? Does he fight in the first province, second province or both?
My assumption would be second, but I could be wrong.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

You cant.
Once you change form you are in "defend" and cannot move.
Your only options are "change form" or "attack current province"

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Perhaps its just my lack of experience, but I haven't seen or heard of stealth being used in ANY successful strategy as anything more than a very minor side benefit.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

I've been pretty successful screwing my enemies' economy with Helheim stealthy troops. Hit, hide, disrupt again. Enemy can't find you, and either has to spend lots and lots of cash on PD, or move armies inside his own territory to take them back.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Stealth can be very handy as a tactic. But as a strategy its pretty difficult. Also, the map sizes used for most MP games doesnt tend to support game strategies built around stealth or flying nations. So those things are downgraded to a quicky early-game tactic only. Stealth doesnt tend to have a good late game, or even a later mid-game. It CAN be used as a strong component to a real alliance (not just two nations who dont attack each other). But that doesnt happen much either. So no, you arent likely to see it used much as a strategy in most mp games on this forum.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Interesting. Both stealth and flying are very useful for raiding. Raiding is what the late game is all about.
Teleport/Cloud Trapeze become more important than flying for the initial attack, but flying lets you move more unpredictably and avoid getting trapped. Stealth lets your raiders vanish, making them immune to most counterattacks.

I see them used less in the early game. Stealth is almost useless during expansion. There's almost always some province you can attack or a way around the impossibly hard ones. Flying is mostly useful early on for quickly reaching unclaimed indies, somewhat negated by early flying troops being pretty weak.

In the early wars both are useful for blitz attacks. Striking most of an enemies lightly defended rear provinces in one turn.

I'm not sure where the claim that "you arent likely to see it used much as a strategy in most mp games on this forum", unless you're discounting all the above as not a strategy?

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Personally I love raiding as a strategy and Ive used it. But I tend to see it used more as a tactic. Its not the path by which a person tries to win the game. But its useful to keep in the toolbox.

Especially if you come up against a full strategy which seems completely planned out and unwaverable. Switching from marching armies to raiding can scramble the other guys plans. Forcing the purchase of PD instead of units can mess with carefully laid out timelines. Scatter his massive army into smaller ones trying to find you. And if you are lucky you might even run into someone that just doesnt change tracks well. But even then it tends to be the key to bringing a nations exapnsion to a halt but some other nation tends to be the one to take it out.

As much as I love using stealth in many different tactics, Id have to admit that its not seen much as a key component to a winning strategy.

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

PD posts moved to the PD Wars (no monkeys allowed)! thread

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

err, the link sends me back to this thread

please feel free to delete this when you see it Edi

Re: Better Know a Pretender: The Green Dragon
 

Whoops! Link fixed.