On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

One thing that makes OOB work such a happy joyous experience ( that's sarcasm ..) is how a seemingly simple little 2 or 3 line item can turn into a full days work.

The US MLRS is a case in point. It started off as a simple investigation of the various rocket types the MLRS fires which moved to issues of the maximum range we give them in the game and then issues of adding the newer longer range ones to , in some cases dwindling weapons slots in some OOB's and then to issues of the reduced lethality of the longer range ones due to their significantly reduced payloads and that lead to the minimum range they can fire which lead to the realization that there are dozens of on map rocket units that will be removed for the next release because in reality their MINIMUM range exceeds the MAXIMUM size of the maps so no matter where you put them on the map you could not hit anything on the map as everything is too close and that lead to research into other systems like the Uragan and Astros ( and I'm sure many others.. the research is ongoing ) that also have minimum ranges that in some cases vastly exceeds the maximum map size and this is just a heads up that every on map rocket unit I find that has a minimum that comes close to or exceeds the 10,000 yard ( 200 hex ) limit WILL be removed from the game for the next patch.

This also impacts formation end and start dates as well as AI picklists for the 183 SP rocket units already in the game not to mention any scenario that uses them

Fun..

The side benifit is it will free up unit slots in OOB's that are getting tight

Don

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Just to make sure, the off-map MRLS will stay the same?

Is there any list of map rocket units that will stay as on-map units and those which will not?

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Off map units are not affected and I'm finding in a few cases these units were only put in as off map in some OOB's anyway.

No, I do not have a complete list as yet which units will be removed from on map beyond the title of this thread. Grads , for example will not be removed. Any rocket that has a maximum range right around 200 will not be taken out. It's only the ON MAP long range rockets that are being removed. Medium and short range stay as they are

Don

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

That actualy sounds like an improvement to me.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

If it wasn't an improvement I wouldn't have spent all day doing it.

Don

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

:D:D Fair point that walked into that one

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Since you are talking about MLRS, why most MLRS units do not have any non CM ammo? Some thankfully still do (OOB), but most don't. I have no idea why though.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Most simply don't have it or it is not a common ammunition.
It is probably only the american MRLS that was born as a dedicated CM carrier with no HE option.
IIRC the Uragan primary ammunition was either HE or scatterable mines (which was planned to drop right on top of advancing enemy units). BM-21 was an HE carrier, though more ammunition types were introduced later.
CM may not be availble because it was not technologically viable at the time or too expensive to purchase later on or not common enough in the inventory to warrant an additional variant including it.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

I know there are MLRS with HE ammo. There have been and there still are. Now, I admit I don't know for USA in specific. As an example Greece IRL has "HE", CM and those other larger ones for the MLRS, I forget the name. In the game there is only the HE option. But that is not my point. I was talking about other countries with the MLRS system (not any type of rocket system) that for (I am not sure if it is a recent change) some reason they appear to have only CM for them.

I may sound judgmental or angry, I am neither, just discussing it. :)

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

In the case of the US MLRS / MARS only cluster munitions were made for the system up until 2009 and it's unclear who, besides the US, is even interested in a single warhead rocket

Don

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Moreover the unitary warhead is guided, so hard to model that.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

I am not judging military decisions I haven't researched, I don't know why certain move takes place.
I don't know how many operators have the large warhead "ammo" for the MRLS, but I do remember reading about it and for Greece acquiring them some time in the late 90's. I am not asking for it to be included in the game. We are just discussing.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

When you find out what it was let us know becasue the only unitary warhead of the M270 MLRS system I have records of is the 227 mm M31A1 that didn't exist until 2009 and the 607mm MGM-140E that didn't exist until 2002

Don

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Hmm, not sure if you are talking about the same thing or not, but this is what I had in mind.
http://www.greekembassy.org/Embassy/...4&article=3293

This isn't the original place where I got the news from (it was magazines of the field which I no longer have)
but I guess it will have to do (info wise)

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Here some info on the system.
http://defense-update.com/products/a/atacms.htm

at least I guess it is the same system with some minor spelling on the first link.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Wdll if it was a regular missile 40 would not go very far, equip one vehicle in the army?
However if you had read the info on it you would have known what it was & hence why its not modeled in the game.
Thats a short range Balistic Missile if it was around then probably used by the U.S. in the Gulf vs hard targets - military bases & airfields.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

FFS! I DO NOT WANT IT IN THE GAME. I clearly said that more than once.
40 btw was the initial shipment.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Well I am going to say WTF chill why are you always so aggresive.
You asked about them said you had not researched what is it, pressume asking why its not in the game otherwise why did you bring it up ?????
You then provide a link which if you had read it answered your question.
English may not be your first language I dont know but I am guessing you could have understood it.
Hence my short answer I read what you could have, in the off chance you couldnt understand it I told you what it was.
And being arsy 40 was the total number 5 was was the first consignment

<DD></DD>

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

If you actually bothered to read my posts you wouldn't have said that or this latest reply.
Thanks for editing your post after I replied.
Also, please stop with this passive aggressive BS.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Debated writing this as likely to wind you up again came back to say far better articles on it & varients if you just google it. In fact possibly a bit hasty to say should not be included once got a better idea of varients & capabilities.
Pointless me posting though as have to admit I now have no idea why you posted about it if you did not want to know what it was or if it should be in the game.

As to editing post comment kinda mystified, may possibly have added the quote as an afterthought.

Anyway I will let you look it up yourself or discuss it with someone else.

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

Are we having an arty discussion here...hmmm can I play?

Regards,
Pat

Re: On map MLRS/Uragan/ASTROS etc etc etc
 

There are a number of different missiles used by that system

MGM-140A 560 kg (1240 lb) (950 M74 APAM bomblets);
MGM-140B: 160 kg (353 lb) (275 M74 APAM bomblets);
MGM-140C (MGM-164A): 268 kg (592 lb) (13 BAT submunitions);
MGM-140D: Upgrade MGM-140B
MGM-140E (MGM-168A): 227 kg (500 lb) WAU-23/B unitary high-explosive ( also refered to as MGM-168 )


The system first saw combat in 1991 but all the missiles up to MGM-140E which was first available no earlier than 2001-2002 were armed with bomblets and therefore anything anybody aquired in 1998 was cluster munitions and not a unitary high-explosive WH


End of discussion



Don