Infernal Sword
 

I was just wondering about this artifact.

Its major use seems to be to stop your opponent from casting banishment on your demons or undead troops.

However, it also raises your priest by 1 level. That didn't bother me much until I got to wondering if your are not a priest at all will the sword still work? What if I wanted to GOR a Devil so I had a flying commander and gave him the sword. Would the effects of no banishment still work?

Also, as long as I am asking that question, I might as well ask this (as it has been bugging me a little)....What exactly is the benefit of a Lvl 1 priest and a higher lvl Priest?

Thanks

(And NO, I don't have the testing, debug, or any other of those things or know how to use them...sorry guys I am REALLY, REALLY computer challenged. So sorry for asking things that I could find out easily if I knew more)

Re: Infernal Sword
 

There's new priest spells on each higher level, and every two level gives a penetration bonus, banishment also gets AoE bonus from priest level.

A lvl 3 priest's banishment covers a larger area in addition to having a higher chance to damage undead/demons due to +1 pen as compared to a lvl 1 priest.

sermon of courage at lvl 2, smite + divine bless at lvl 3 are all useful spells, lvl 4 fanaticism is decent too.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

Assuming you mean the Sword of Injustice (which matches your description) and not the Infernal Sword (which does not), the following apply:

1) Units with no priest levels will not benefit from the +1 priest level. This is true in general for magic path boosters (e.g. blood stones don't grant a pathless commander 1E.)

2) The wielder can still cast the spell from the sword despite having no priest levels.

3) +1 priest level can be enormously beneficial if e.g. going from 2H to 3H (get battlefield wide blessing + smite). 3H to 4H lets you definitively site search for all holy sites (very minor benefit) and gives the ability to cast level 4 priest spells (e.g. Fanaticism) as well as making banishment more effective.

The Infernal Sword, on the other hand, is a tool to try to banish SCs to Inferno.

Of course, if you're a NINJA you don't need swords like these to be dangerous...

Re: Infernal Sword
 

I don't think there is any item which stops your opponents from casting Banishment on you is there?

Re: Infernal Sword
 

many, insofar as they allow you to kill your opponents ;)

Re: Infernal Sword
 

No, but the sword onebattlespell-casts Protection of the Sepulchre which somewhat mitigates the effect of Banishment.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

There's always the Staff of Storms to lower the enemy's precision, although precision isn't too important with Banishment...

Re: Infernal Sword
 

Fairly new... what is a penetration bonus?

Re: Infernal Sword
 

Pen bonus (e.g. inches) increase chances of penetrating enemy MR.

The standard MR checks at 12, so when you banish an undead who has MR 14, you are doing so at -2 MR check on the DRN table, looking at the manual that has a 30% chances of hurting the undead. With +1 inches you are effectively doing -1 MR check rather then -2, or 38% on the DRN table. This is why mind hunters want +5 inches.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

So what are the different methods of getting inches?

Did that sound like an adult entertainment ad lol?

Re: Infernal Sword
 

every 2 ranks of magic above whats needed to cast a spell gets you +1 penetration; there are also items that specifically grant spell penetration

Re: Infernal Sword
 

Rune smasher = 2 inches
Void eye = 2 inches
spell focus = 1 inch
ring of wiz/sorc = 1 inch
And some artifacts

The standard hunter gear is smashher, eye + focus for 5 inches.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

The OP seems to assume this spell also protects demons... does it ? I know demons require Undead leadership and share many attributes with undeads (neither eats, neither is affected by Darkness, etc...) but are demons affected by an undead buff ?

Re: Infernal Sword
 

According to DrPraetorius's spell effect database, the Protection of the Sepulchre spell effect has the oUndead flag, which means it should take effect only on undead, not demons.

So, to the OP, not too useful protection wise for your generic demon armies. Mixed demons + undead, however, is a different story. Also, if you're e.g. Lanka, access to higher priest-level demon-only buffs may be a factor.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

However, the description on the sword says the sword protects your 'minions' against the banishment spell....Demons have a problem with the banishment spell. So your saying that the descriptions on the weapons/artifacts etc are not correct in a number of instances?

That for me is just too much micro-management, to have to check the book, or a data base, or a post, to see if the game description is correct on every damn thing.:(

Re: Infernal Sword
 

That is exactly the case. Descriptions are sometimes wrong. The trick is knowing what spells/effects are used so that you're not lead astray. In this case it's protection of the sepulchre, an la ermor national priest spell. So knowing that, you can see why it doesn't protect demons.

That said, if someone made a mod to correct faulty descriptions in game, I'm sure it would be used. The only problem with that is all the long-time players already know better.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

It is a tedious road I agree, and I also wish there was somehow to look everything up easily. But this game is in fact a older game with a dedicated base that DOES know the ropes. And if your not willing to put the time in to discover what these things do and how they react....then you are doomed to a lot of anger that things just don't seem to work right.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

Well, actually I understand that this is an older game (and if it wasn't for the modders it would be at a standstill), and those that play it are pretty rabid about the game and I can see why.

I just personally don't have the desire, computer skills, or time, to look up everything in here to make sure it works the way it is supposed to. The community is GREAT in answering questions, but sometimes you don't know which questions to ask. The manual (except for some few parts) is almost worthless with all the new changes over the years, and if it wasn't for those who mod this game...there more than likely wouldn't be a community as it is.

I have met a number of people on here that I count as friends and for the most part are a pretty decent lot.

think I will finish my games (as I am not the sort that bails) to the best of my ability and go back to games more to my skill set. Thanks Dad (GrudgeBringer), for getting me involved and I gave it a go, and hope I didn't embarrass you.

Thanks to all that have helped me, and to finish my games I may need to ask a few more questions. Other than that I will be pretty quiet.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

You should have seen Dominions_2... LOL. After reading an items history usually you'd still have no clue if the item/artifact was any good.
In Dominions_2 you had to either search the forums and/or test the items/artifacts. As a result I first placed the Amon Hotep helm on the head of a Telestic Animate(statue) which was underwater. LOL

Re: Infernal Sword
 

i'm not going to even talk about the taxes in dom 2. Not too long ago i put that stone plate armor on my bane lord thugs and i was wondering why do they go down so easily even against chaff. The ones that had full black steel armor were doing just fine with less prot. The reason was that the armor i used reduce the frost resistance. Having less than 100 FR on a thug with frost aura = dead thug :D

Mistakes like that are actually quite funny afterwards :)

The learning curve is actually the biggest reason to play "some" sp before going mp. and by some i mean lot because learning by making mistakes is so much less painsome against the AI ;)

In one of the LP's in goons forum someone put dominions in a nutshell by saying "i wish i knew that before" :D

Re: Infernal Sword
 

I remember back in the day, when manuals were often 100+ pages, each new patch would come with a readme file which had addendums to the manual.

I wonder if Shrapnel would be ok with having someone be "deputized" and given access to the electronic version of the manual, with the specific task of updating it. This person could farm out some of the sections... "You're doing units, you're doing spells," etc.. People could then look at the addendum list and either buy a new manual (hint, hint, profit!) or just do what I did back in the day, which was go through and change it with a pen. What harm could there be? If most people acknowledge the manual is worthless, it can't really get much worse, can it?

I hear people say "I can't believe they charge so much for that game!" I'm one of those who believe it's worth twice as much as we pay, but it would be really nice if some of that money were invested in a new manual.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

Just in case any potential purchaser happens across this thread, as a recent one myself I can assure you that the manual is far from worthless. I don't care if it has a thousand inaccuracies or changes, and I'm sure it should have been updated, of nearly any game I can think of the manual contains a huge amount to orient you as a newcomer.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

+1 to jonbrave. the manual was essential to understand the game as a newcomer, missing nations/out of date charts or not.

however if one is seeking to make a more up to date reference, the wiki is an obvious place. It's sorely in need of more work; I registered an account but as yet haven't made any significant contributions.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

I agree that the manual is leaps and bounds above the current standard of "Here's five pages and our website!", but it would be nice to see an official update. The main problem with Wiki is that anyone can post, so there's no guarantee that the information is better, and it may even be worse.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

By worthless didn't mean you should not read it or use some of the tables in it. If you were brand new, without it you would just wander around without ANY direction.

I mean it is worthless in the way of outdated...The only good I get out of it is some of the charts for artifacts, spells, and a general overview of a nation. Other than that even most of Nation guides (even the ones done by some VERY talented people) are way out of date because of CBM and other mods that are common place now.

It may be MY fault because I jumped right into MP and didn't play 1 SP game. But when I spend tons of turns, time, and effort to set up my plan....and then find out the artifacts don't even work as described so I have to scrap that plan and start again....it just becomes too tedious for me personally.

Others seem to have NP with it.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

I don't see how you could expect Shrapnel to base the manual on mods.

If there are enough people interested who still play without mods, and we could get Shrapnel's OK, I'd be happy to help coordinate an army of volunteers to get the manual updated. I think that if you assign very limited things to each person ("You find out if the in-game descriptions of Thaumaturgy levels 1 through 3 match the book"), it would be something that could get done.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

That is just what I mean...I DON'T expect ANYTHING from Shapnal. they have for the most part said there is going to be NO Dom 4 and they are working on something else and don't have the time or inclination to do anything with this except let it be.

It is a good game, and it has a LOT of depth. But most of the guides are written in 2008 to 2009, long before CBM or any of the other mods. And while I don't want a complete walk-thru on how to win...it sure would make it a little easier if the guides if the guides still didn't tout the GORGON as Sauros main pretender design.

Someone said that the old timers on here know which artifacts are not what they are described at so no one has put together anything (I see FL and Trumanator have attempted to put at least SOME cohesion out there..thanks guys!!). Even Baalz, whose guides I have read are still good on basic strategy, but you better be prepared for a month of SP to find out how the changes effect them or on turn 58 your gonna find out the hard way.

I am sure there are a lot of guys willing to put in the work to help update the book or at least the posts. I just personally don't have the patiance or desire to spend 6 hours on a turn making sure everything I want to do, and it says I can do ...I really can do.

Great game..great modders...old info.

A lot of new guys on here play it, but say you are used to Strategic games and not so much Tactical. You can get by to around turn 30 or so and then you better figure out magic in a hurry. I think that is the killer for me.

I just think I will finish my games and get into something I can understand in a few months or so.

Re: Infernal Sword
 

I hear what you're saying about the inconsistent documentation - it can be frustrating. This game doesn't appear to have been made with casual gamers in mind. The audience that the Illwinter guys seem to have been designing for is the modern day monk acolyte (ie. the math major, or the coder, or detail oriented minutiae researcher). If spending untold hours researching in a library and then searching all over Europe to find the correct 9 plates to open The 9th Gate a la Johnny Depp in that Polanski film is not your thing, you may find that you never become awesome at Dominions.

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that I will never become awesome at Dominions, but in my case it doesn't matter - I enjoy playing it anyway.

I think that's key. You have to enjoy playing it when things don't go your way (and you have to abandon your carefully prepared strategy and suddenly adapt). You have to enjoy playing when you're being crushed by that player who is obviously more experienced (maybe you can learn something from how he's destroying you). Playing when you were foolish enough to take Misfortune 3 and get turn after turn of bad events on your capital in the first year (Misfortune is Misfortunate!).

For me it comes to down to the cackle-worthy moments. When I first started sending mages out with my armies in SP games, the evocation school generated it's share of cackle-worthy moments for me. I just couldn't get enough of blowing away AI chaff armies. The first time I successfully made a thug was a cackle-worthy moment. But even in a game that isn't going your way you can have these little moments when you make things much more difficult than necessary for whoever is stomping you. They've already won. You're going down in flames. But you make it take them 3 more turns than it should have. This causes cackling. :)

Sometimes, the game seems to be cackling at me rather than the reverse, but I enjoy those moments too. So many of the random events and even some of the heroic traits (Heroic Obesity?! Ugh!) seem to have been added to the game when the Illwinter guys were in a particularly puckish mood. I can just see them cackling over this stuff as they coded it in. So many spells in this game are evil! And the items! Eye of the void isn't even all that bad, but when I first encountered it I wouldn't go near it. Replace the commanders eye? Gives an affliction and a chance for a horror mark?! Sure, this item has it's uses, but the entire game is riddled with stuff (traps!) that may or may not be useful in certain niche situations. Playing this game is like being Indiana Jones in an ancient temple full of traps. There are goodies that are definitely worth it, but there are also spiders dropping on your head. And spikes coming up from below. And a cute little old lady offering you chocolate mouse* and the opportunity to play host to something unholy.

This is a really involved game - it's also evil. It doesn't fully reveal itself to the casual player, and you may never know all of it. But that means there's always more to it, and that's what's great about it. Not everyone is going to feel that way, though.

*"As long as she ate the mouse, she can't see nor hear. Now sing."
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0010586/quotes

Re: Infernal Sword
 

Also, the in-game documentation, item descriptions and the like, are in large part flavor text. They generally give you a good idea what the thing can do, but they aren't intended to describe mechanics.
The game might be a little simpler to play if the flavor text was replaced by the manual descriptions, but it would be a lot less interesting.

Where they're wrong, they should be changed, but more often they're simply imprecise.