New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

I just noticed a new patch (1.05) and a pack with multiplayer maps has been released. The patch seems to address nearly everything I have seen mentioned on the forums. About to try it now and see how the AI does..........

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

HUGE improvement. AI is considerably more aggressive. It invests in air power right away and naval forces are not far behind. I was even able to catch part of a fight between two opposing task forces. (Not pretty; cruisers are big trouble.)

AI is also pushing jump units into air transports and using them (!) to 'hopscotch' past neutrals or opposing players. Definitely not the world-wide whipping boy of the past. And if you pay close attention to the patch file, you'll see that they've changed the game economics, too. Cities are actually worth the investment. And the AI knows it, too - guess who's building air defense emplacements! Yeesh. Tetchy buggers. Intercontinental raiding isn't the slam-dunk it used to be.

However, AI still lags against a human equivalent. A human player can still outstrip them in territorial acquisition and in material selection. (They don't invest enough in firepower - or not as much as your average person might - despite throwing down with stealth forces and naval task forces.) It also doesn't show much sophistication in the 'field'. Combat for the AI is still based on the "BANZAI" concept. Not too smart, but ... if your ground-pounders are backed by a wing of Level 2 bombers (regular AND unleaded), 'finesse' is hardly a requirement for victory. Fighters are still the best investment you can make, but expect them to face a lot more opposition.

In sum, a huge improvement. Hopefully, more on the way.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

That is good to hear.
Is there any possibility to adapt the AI ourselves in the full game? I only have the demo so far and there are no AI files you could change. Is that different in the full game??

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

A downloaded the updated demo and gave it a go. Definitely a huge improvement. It still feels a little rough and I think there are a number of balance issue to clear up but it's a big step in the right direction.

Most of the remaining issues can probably be taken care of by modding and hopefully the AI can continue to improve with future patches. I'm definitely considering picking this one up but I'm just not sure about the long-term replayability in it's current form.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

I agree: the AI has improved a lot and uses now sea and air transports to invade weakly protected areas behind the enemy front lines.
Still the AI focus their attacks to little on normal empires and does not use the neutral empires as protection or buffer. And they do not react if a (human) empire gets so strong that they should focus all attacks on this "mega evil empire".
If the combat system will not be changed, the AI should learn the tactic human players use: let the enemy move into your firing range instead of moving yourself unless the enemy has greater range than you.
And finally if this is possible: a possibility to change/modify the AI unit purchase. This would be especially important in game types with modded units.
But once again the game has made an important progress.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

Is there a time limit for the battles and if so, then does the defender win if time runs out? What happens to the attackers?

If there is no time limit, I can see 'Mexican stand-offs' developing between human players (and with the AI if it's 'taught' to not move into firing range all the time. If there is a time limit, then the AI defenders should definitely be hanging back and forcing the attackers to move into range and thus gaining the first shot.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

I have thought about this a LOT. I think it will be ok in multiplayer for the following reasons.......

We KNOW a player that has a clue about how to play isnt going to just move his units forward like the AI.

If the attacker isnt willing to move into range to fight he wont attack since the other player, the defender, is going to sit back. Why attack a teritory if you arent going to attack the units in the tactical battle.

So I dont see a player that has a clue what he is doing attacking a territory unless he feels he can move into range,...absorb a few attacks and still win.

Naturally there will always be that one guy...........who decides to play without knowing this, and he will attack and then realize the other player isnt going to make nice targets of his units like the AI does. He will probably want to quit or load the last save when he realizes he is going to lose everything in the battle.....

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

Exactly, which is hopefully a situation which has been planned for via a time limit. But there are other situations where it could happen even if the player has a clue (ie, they lose their long-ranged unit(s) and the next person to move into range loses).

I just think that there has to be a way to call 'time' and call it a defender's win.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

A retreat option would indeed solve the problem. For the attacker only.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

I suggested a retreat option (for both sides) in the first book of changes I sent to Malf. It might be something they build-in later. They still seem to be working on the AI and unit balance. My primary concern with the 'Tactical Theater' of the game is that it skews heavily to a win-or-lose everything result. There's rarely an in-between. Which gives the victor of the fight a massive advantage.

Think about it - you spend bajillions to build a "death storm" force of Bombers, Fighters, and whatevers. You engage an enemy force of near-equal composition. Whomever loses, loses all. Which means that by the time the loser rebuilds their army, the victor has already overrun half the loser's country and become a virtually unstoppable engine of annihilation. All this from one half-serious battle.

On the other hand, if two equal forces meet, and the victor walks away with 40% casualties (dang good when the loser suffers 100%), the defeated party has a better chance of making a meaningful recovery. Or, if the party under attack can retreat and spare some of its assets ... then again there's the opportunity to rebuild your defense.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

.... naturally, all of this depends on an AI capable of making rational choices. AI v1.05 is a huge step up from its predecessor, but it's still a major lightweight.

It builds air units, but seems to limit itself to one air attack action per turn. (Fighter can move 4 spaces and engage enemy forces in at least three nearby, but only hits one before returning home for the remainder of the turn.)

It builds naval task forces, but limits itself to one unit of each type, and NEVER builds carriers (jet or helo).

It puts a HUGE priority on building these naval task forces, pushing money into them one-ship-at-a-time if necessary, even when all hell is breaking loose as enemy forces invade or shoot those ships to pieces without effort. (Suicidal myopia.)

It builds ASW Choppers, but sends them to fight land battles, never against subs.

It builds AA Trucks and the occassional AA Emplacement for territorial defence, but it won't spend big on those units and rush them to the front when unfriendly bombers and jets start taking names and knockin' on doors.

It takes a very relaxed approach to territorial acquisition, even when neutrals are absent.

It seems to obsess over worthless territories it loses to other AI teams, even as your own forces are crushing it like a ripe grape.

It seems to limit itself to one attack per turn, and will deploy insane amounts of firepower to prosecute that attack.

For example, weenie-burger AI Green Team seizes unguarded land worth 4 Resource Points from AI Blue Team using one Infantry unit. Blue responds immediately with 3 Regular Bombers, 1 Stealth Bomber, 2 Stealth Fighters, 2 Regular Fighters, 4 Tanks, 2 Rocket Artillery, and a Bosch Kitchen Sink (stainless steel). Blue COMPLETELY ignores the dozens of tanks, fighters, and bombers that Red / Human team is assembling on its border - a border already made out of previously-Blue territories. Eh? See what happens when you contract your military leadership to Lindsay Lohan & Britney Spears?

This is just a sampler of the issues I'm seeing with v1.05. Anyone else noting other contra-intelligent design by the AI?

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

My own thinking is you allocate forces for offense and defense.

If an opponent does the unthinkable and wipes out your attacking forces,you still have your defensive forces.

Everyone seems to be overlooking nuclear weapons. They clear off enemy lands in a heartbeat.

Infantry seems near worthless. They don't seem to be able to kill anything.

I noticed that when you build fortified position, the AI seems to avoid them.

The new demo is improved though, at least it's fairly fun to play at this point.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

Yes, I doubled the hit points of Infantry and that at least makes them useful to soak up attacks. They are also fairly versatile as they get 100% vs Land and 80% vs Air (although their basic attack damage is weak).

Infantry's problems are they they are slow and that have a 50% upkeep (compared to ~25% upkeep on other units). But with the doubled HPs they provide a need amount of beef to a force. I also buffed up the attack values on the APCs a bit (more to represent BMPs and Bradley's more than BTRs or M113's). This also makes infantry a bit more attractive to use since it helps remove the major penalty of slow movement. A stack of 5 APCs carrying 10 double-HP infantry is actually a fairly respectable force.

But yeah, in the standard rules I dont know why you'd ever bother with Infantry or APCs or Fortified Positions.... ;)

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

What would be neat if say infantry was required to take over enemy structures. That way at least there would be a need for them.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

What rules are you using?

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

I created a quick mod using ScottWAR's mod as a base.

I basically rebalanced the costs and capabilities a bit on certain units to make some more playable and others less dominant.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

OK, after playing a bit more into it, the AI is definitely still pretty brain-dead lol. I don't think it's anything that can't be fixed, but at this point it's just killing itself.

And honestly there are a few game rules changes that could be implemented that would help while not really hurting the game IMO.

Some suggestions:

1) You should not be able to build in just captured Facilities. It makes it too easy to steam-roller an opponent (human or AI for that matter) since you can attack, take their production site and then immediately dump as many units as you want into it.

2) Units should probably only be able to engage in COMBAT once per turn. Again, the AI is not good at doing multiple attacks in a turn and it also causes steam-roller effects. Mobile units are already incredibly good. They really dont need the added bonus of being able to stomp into multiple battles.

3) The whole 'capturing' nukes/neutron bombs etc and being able to use them immediately on the same turn...I mean...really? That is just beyond cruel. And its even worse for the AI since it never seems to actually USE the damned thing in the first play (but it loves to build them to hand over to you and get nuked by their own weapons!).

Beyond that, the AIs really need to be taught:

1) To mass units. Having 1-3 Infantry isnt worthwhile, but having 10-12 is. Unfortunately I never see the AI massing units. It usually just creates a few more expensive units that die and leave it with nothing.

2) To not walk blindly forward into enemy fire, especially when it has either a range advantage or it is on the defense (meaning that the attacker should have to commit first). This change alone would make the game MUCH harder since the AI might actually KILL something once in a while. If it's not possible to do this, then bite the bullet and change the game so that you fire after you move (even if with a penalty). It does no good to have game rules in place that simply allow simple exploiting of the AI in every battle.

Finally, I would suggest adding in alternate victory conditions so it's possible to 'win' within grinding out every pointless territory. You should be able to configure a win on 'x' percent of the territories and you should definitely win by simply defeating all opponents (NOT every silly neutral in the game).

All in all, this game has a fun and addictive quality to it but even in the patched state, it's just not really worth playing against an AI that is that terrible with game rules that just magnify the weaknesses of the AI. But with a few tweaks to the AI and the rules, this game will be real gem IMO!

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

All good points.

Most of the FAB plants I have in my current game the AI built for me ,lol.

Have you been nuked yet?

I saw a ballistic sub but it didn't fire at me,meanwhile I'm shooting off nukes every turn and serilizing the map.

Whats the deal when you build a nutron bomb and you see it sitting in a territory? how do you use it?

The AI became only marginally better overall with the patch.

Multiplayer is currently untenable so the near future outlook is somewhat grim, having just purchased the game.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

Agreed,...all excellent points by Uncle Joe.

Not nearly as important but some things I would like to see added-

More control over what kind of map that is generated,....for example being able to select whether there is one big continent or a few small continents or a bunch of little islands,....etc.

A guide for making mods......what is possible to do and how do you do it?

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

No, I think defenders should also be able to retreat resulting in immediate victory for the attacker. That would make it possible to mass your forces in rear territories. But it should only be possible when there are adjacent own territories.

Re: New patch and multiplayer map pack
 

Yeah, about the nukes: It should be possible to load them with mobile missile launchers or missile subs. The descrition of the nukes says they can be fired with a mobile missile launcher, but I didn't see that option yet in the game. They just remain in the territory where you've built them.