Behemoth?
 

The desc of this ritual states that the caster cannot cast other spells, yet there doesn't seem to be a "link" between the behemoth and the caster... and the caster can still cast other spells in combat.

What's the deal?

Bad description text?

Re: Behemoth?
 

The description doesn't refer to the caster not being able to cast spells, but rather the rider. Basically, it summons one undead elephant complete with undead rider who is technically/flavor-wise a mage (but who can't cast spells.) The summoner can do whatever you like afterward.

Not the most intuitive, and a lot of people ask.

Re: Behemoth?
 

ahhh... that makes so much more sense - many thanks!

Re: Behemoth?
 

If i remember the description text right it says that it takes mage to control/ride the behemoth. When you summon that behemoth you also get that mage to ride it. Controlling the beast is so difficult that the mage cannot do anything else than control it. So he is not casting anything in battles.

To make it simple the spell summon one behemoth unit. There is no connection between the summoner and the unit after you get it.

I hope this answers your question :)

Damn im slow :mad:
Or the ninjas are just way too fast ;)

Re: Behemoth?
 

Wow, I always thought it made the caster temporarily feebleminded or some such and was therefore a terrible spell. thus I never used it to check.

I woundered why people seemed to concider it a decent spell. I must say, that's some truly lousy flavor text :S

Re: Behemoth?
 

I quite like that spell early on.
Low level, cheap, only 6D, a lot of HP, and a fear aura. If you throw in an astral mage with luck and body ethereal it's pretty damn nice!

I myself wondered about the description. I though the casting mage was unable to preform any ritual spells or something once he summons the Behemot.

Re: Behemoth?
 

Yeah, with that change I can defenately see a use for it. Fearless elephant if nothing else.

Re: Behemoth?
 

I used to think it was whichever mage was commanding the elephant
so i'd always carry around a dedicated necromancer because I though otherwise my commander'd go useless.
then I learned to "view battle"

Re: Behemoth?
 

Fearless and encumbrance 0 elephant.
Trampling attacks quickly tucker regular elephants out in long battles, at which point they'll either get cut to ribbons or just stand there like idiots, blocking the fresh elephants behind them. This is especially true with armoured elephants and in fort battles. Behemoths OTOH just keep on trucking, and even put the fear of god in the poor schmucks they didn't grind into mush for good measure.

At 6D a piece they'd already be nice on their own, if you've got cheap S1 mages to give them luck and body ethereal they can be devastating. Just ask MA Ermor, who with a bit of effort can even make their dead, ethereal, lucky, MR boosted, action points boosted elephant corps fly if they want to :D. Sure, it's hard to set up, wasteful and probably not that much more efficient that plain old S buffed Behemoths, but dude: Flying. Elephant. Ghost. Zombies.
Now GoR a few. Give 'em slave matrices, have a master cast Fire Shield. Now you've got Flying Elephant Ghost Zombies ON FIRE! and you've pretty much won the game then and there. Or you can sell the rights to SyFy Pictures. Either way, it can't go wrong.

Re: Behemoth?
 

How do you counter behemoths? They have too many HP for priests. assume they are neither flying or on fire, if that makes it easier.

Is there a counter for flying behemoths?

I honestly can't think of one other than storm. Or being size 6.

Re: Behemoth?
 

The usual stuff. Root them, kill them. If you are playing CBM where your opponent uses lots of Behemoths, root them in place with Storm of Thorns, Prison of Fire, Earthmeld etc. Then send in a couple thugs with Heroic Blade or Holy Scourges, and the Behemots will become minced meat.

Re: Behemoth?
 

High damage spells (Thunder strike, Bane Fire) works well. Overwhelming number also work as long as they have not been made ethereal. Flamgerges and other anti undead weapons work. Finally. Things with huge amount of damage (Sepulchrals, Minotaurs) also work well.

Re: Behemoth?
 

Any single target damage spell will target the Behemoths first (because of high HP and size) so early on Thunder Strike, Flame Bolts can do the trick. Later on you can count on Petrify, Disintegrate, Incinerate... Also note the Behemoths aren't Mindless like most undead (presumably because the necromancer mahout isn't) so Paralyse, Mind Hunt and Soul Slay all work, as do Charm and Enslave.

Of course, there's also the even cheaper option of massing archers or crossbows - Behemoths only have 7 protection so unless they're ethereal and you can't cast Flaming Arrows, missile fire of any kind will schwack them in short order (or cripple/limp them which is the next best thing).

I wouldn't really count on Earth Meld, Vine Arrow/Storm of Thorns or Fire Cage/Prison of Fire though: Behemoths are high strength and ridiculously high morale so at best those spells would only hold them for a turn... assuming the mage even targets them - AoE spells tend to target large concentrations first and that often means the skellispam screen. Besides if they're ethereal, one turn won't be enough for your guys to dispatch them unless you've also got a fire bless.
Crushers would be a good albeit expensive option to hold them in place however. Size 6 means they won't get flattened; mindless so the fear doesn't matter; and they've got better stats than the behemoths so they should come out on top of a trunk vs. fist contest even with minimal buffing or magic support.

Re: Behemoth?
 

Just for the record (as it seems to me you Kobal2 are not familiar with what the heroic blade does): One turn is more than enough for two thugs with heroic blades to take care of a behemoth :) I've seen four banes with flying boots and heroic blades (and no other equipment) chop up two fully kitted (with artefacts and all that) tartarian SC's in two rounds; the other tartarian was dead (err, or whhat ever it is that undad become after being slain) before being able to do anything (they were attacking), the other had time to cast a single self buff before it was chopped up too.

Re: Behemoth?
 

Could you/someone please explain this to a newb? I thought targets (for most anything) were just chosen at random? It makes a difference if you know these spells are likely to target something useful...

Re: Behemoth?
 

High hit point and large size targets are prioritized.

Re: Behemoth?
 

I don't know if spell targeting is completely understood, but it tends to go for max potential damage. So disintegrate will target the high hp large sixed low mr creatures first.

Don't know if you can abuse this. But you could use Dark vines (Large, high hp, lowish mr) for example to test this. (If this works it is a nice trick to use as any of the frost giant races).

Re: Behemoth?
 

Not necessarily useful, but the combat AI does try for maximum effect, usually by total damage done. Essentially it simulates the spell a few times, picks the target that did best and then rerolls the attack.

Re: Behemoth?
 

That should require prescience! ;)

Re: Behemoth?
 

I'm a noob myself so I'm not as knowledgeable about the arcanes of the domAI as some of the gurus out there, but I believe whatever spell you cast, the AI tries to maximize the number of total HP it will affect. At least for damaging and debuffing spells - I'm still puzzled by the AI buffing priorities.

But anyway, what this means is that single target spells will prioritize big hulking monsters (because they have a lot more HP than Joe Spearman next to them) while AoE spells tend to target large masses of chaff (because each square holds 3 guys, 10HP each, hence hitting just 3 squares of Joe Spearman (90 HP total) does more damage than killing, say, the lone and almost killed Prince of Death with brand and shield who's completely ruining your stuff.

I'm not bitter.

Re: Behemoth?
 

Well, by "your guys" I really meant Joe Spearman, but I confess I don't know what heroic blades are. I didn't find them on the wiki, and even with CBM 1.6 and the debug mod on I can't forge those. Is that some whacky mod gear ?

Re: Behemoth?
 

It's actually called the "Hero's Blade". With CBM 1.6 you should be able to forge it. 2E. Two-handed weapon. Does extra damage to larger creatures.

Re: Behemoth?
 

like that one hoburg sword?

Re: Behemoth?
 

Like thejeff mentioned, it is actually called "Hero's blade". Sorry for not checking the exact spelling at the time :)

I suppose you've not seen the adventures of Aracana the markata scout? ;) With a Hero's Blade and some assorted gear he went and chopped up giants left and right :D
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44001

Just to point out, the markata was a sort of a comedy test, but it proved suprisingly succesfull. After that I've tried out Hero's Blade in some more "serious" manners, and I've sort of fallen in love with the thing :D I tend to get the best results by having more than one Hero's Blade wielder (two or three are usually enough to smack up anything before artefacts come around)) and rooting the target first (vines, earhmeld, fetters, etc). All you need is to make the large target rooted for one round, and it gets chopped up :)