If your an SP player let me know if....
 

If your an SP player let me know if you would be keen to participate in a multiplayer "humans vs AI's" game I'm organising.

I advertised this game in the multiplayer section of the forum but think that MP gamers would generally not be interested in playing vs the AI and SP players may not look in the multiplayer section, not being interested in MP.

If your a SP player who doesn't want to play against other people this would be a fun game. I'm aiming to ally the AI's into one or two groups and play the game on a SemiRand map which will increase the difficulty. It will be a challenge but one I'm sure we can handle.

Open to all players, vets and noobs alike, its all about having some challenging fun. :)

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I'd be interested in giving it a shot. I, however, only play vanilla. If your also playing vanilla then sign me up.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Just one note, the AIs as I understand can only be in one alliance due to the limitations of map commands.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I intend to set all that up and load the .map file to the llama server. Players will choose the map, their nations, we'll decide on which AI's to fight and what teams to put the AI's into. Then I'll run the map through the SemiRand program. Then manually assign the AI alliances and upload.

This would make the starting positions random which I was thinking, let me know if this is ok.

Vanilla is fine, as long as the other players agree.

So far then we have endomorphious, Mauxe (privately told me of his interest and myself. I think we only need one, possibly two more players.

Any idea on Era and general difficulty?

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I don't think rdonj is correct. I believe you use the #allies command to ally a pair of AIs, so using that you can build up several different AI teams.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I'd be interested in trying this. I like the idea of team games.

I don't have any strong preferences regarding era.

Were you thinking of doing something thematic with regards to nation selection? Ie. the players picking "good" nations (or "evil") or something? Hot vs Cold?

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I was thinking EA, everyone can choose the nation they want and we see whats left over to create the AI teams. It would be good to have teams set around themes but it depends on what everyone else wants. Basically I'm thinking if you want something in the game, say so or I'll just make the decisions :)

I was thinking standard settings for things like gold, resources and gem site frequency. I was thinking of using the Better Independents mod.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Very interesting... I created a map you guys may be interested in using. The map has 400 provinces and setup with victory points allowing humans to win after taking the capital of Atlantis and Neifeilheim which belong to AI opponents. Each of those AI opponents start with well equipped supercombatants and the map is large enough where players will have plenty of time to research and expand.
Let me know if you're interested in this map or advice with using map commands for AI opponents on another map.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Hmm... 400 provinces might be a little... ginormous for what Doo was proposing. And I think his idea was to have more than 2 allied AI opponents. Which map is it BTW? :)

I don't have an objection to Better Independents - just be ready for the horde of AI archers. Would Endo be OK with that since he says he prefers vanilla?

Standard settings are cool with me.

I'm considering playing Kailasa if noone else was thinking of doing so.

With Better Idependents being considered, Kailasa might be an illogical choice (one of they're big weaknesses is their vulnerability to archers afterall), but what the hey. And I'd be happy to change to something theme appropriate if you guys decide you want to do a theme based nation selection thing.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

The size of the map is only large medium or small depending on the size of the game. The number of provinces per player is the defining factor. Dom3 considers S/M/L as 10/15/20. So if there are 20 players total including all human and AI players then it would only be a "Large" game. And more would make it move toward a medium game.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I do appreciate the offer of map and/or support NT Jedi, I was kinda thinking 400 provinces is perhaps a couple too many as well :)

For the map I was thinking something like Cradle of Dominion, its pretty, large enough for 10-12 players and has lots of "start with four neighbouring provinces" provinces.

Endomorphious, what do you think of including the "Better Independents" mod?. Have you tried it before? In my experience you have less AI armies made of random assortments of indie provincial crap and more national troops.

The only other mod I can think of would be the All Ages mod, then we could do us (and no discussion on what age to play) vs EA, MA and LA Atlantis ect...

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

While that's true on a per player basis, that largely effects rushing tactics. The length of the game and the amount of work/micromanagement needed in the endgame is largely driven by the actual number of provinces.

Of course if the players are cooperating and fighting the AI, then you won't likely have to play it out all the way.

I would suggest a fairly small number of players, enough so that the AI has a significant numerical advantage, 2-1 at least. I'd also suggest a smaller map (in the per nation sense) so that conflicts start early when the AI isn't as outclassed as it is by late-game tactics.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

On the map I created it has 2 main AI opponents and other AI opponents could easily be added. The size of the map is intentionally large otherwise there's risk of the supercombatants from the AI opponents arriving to the human player to early. While the map is large the two provinces with victory points will allow the game to end within a reasonable timeframe especially since all human players will be working as a team.
The map I created was randomly generated with one large body of water in the NorthEast for a computer opponent.


I offered the 400 province map since I figured most SP gamers want comfortable breathing space without feeling the pressure to expand quickly. Cradle of Dominions has a large amount of water stretching across the entire map. Any AI opponents with land nations will almost never attack water provinces, which provides humans with several advantages. If you're using Cradle of Dominions then Argatha should definitely be one of the stronger AI opponents so the water provinces are more difficult to defend.

I recommend the following mapedit commands so the AI opponents are not swallowed so easily:
A) Provide AI capitals with province defence of at least 50 yet not more than 85. I say not more than 85 because events can boost province defence above 125 which causes a bug where it returns to zero.
B) Provide the strongest AI opponent(s) on land with a library at his capital which will help researching levels against human players. AI opponent must have 3 magic sites or less at capital for this to work.
C) Provide growth scales for all AI opponents this helps them survive.
D) Provide some AI opponent(s) with multiple immobile mages which do not have fire or cold auras. These immobile mages will help not only with research, summons, and globals but will also make the final battle more interesting.
E) Provide the strongest AI opponent(s) with a custom pretender which is size 4 or smaller. This will help prevent the pretender from being sent to the arena death match. Items and even artifacts can be equipped on the pretender so it doesn't die during its first battle.
F) If you're looking to increase the game challenge provide the AI opponent(s) with other positive scales such as Order. If you're feeling brave provide them with a couple supercombatants... a water nation could have aquatic supercombatants thus preventing them from traveling on land.


Let me know if you want my help with any of the above.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Cheers for the advice NT Jedi. The main reason I don't want to use a huge map (although I know some would not call a 400 province map huge ;) ) is that I don't have the time to spend scripting long turns. I will be taking your advice on making the game better into account.

Mauxe has not replied to my messages so I'll assume he's got enough on his plate with other games (but if you don't let me know before we begin here).

Hrum, you'll play as Kailasa then.

Endomorphious, who will you play as? If you pick a nation of another era, thats fine, or just go as an EA nation and we'll play an EA game. Also can you turn on "private messaging" on your account? I'll need to be able to contact you this way. To do so log in, click on "user cp" (same menu bar as "search" and "log out") and go to options, enable private messaging.

I aim to have the map set up for a start in around four days time. It will be on the Llama server, so I will need to get email addresses from you both (hence the need for private messaging).

Can I get an idea from you both how good a SP player you feel you are?

NT Jedi, if you are cool with it once I do the map would you like to take a look at it and possibly add some extra spice to it?, based on our perceptions of ability of course ;)

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I enjoyed our first ai adventure. It was much appreciated for getting my feet wet.

I do have a few games going at the moment but I would like to join in this one as well.
I am taking every opportunity to learn the game better and this will allow me to bounce some questions around without looking at diplomacy :)

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Sounds good... message me when its ready.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Excellent.

Mauxe, Hrum, Endomorphious and Doo.

Never in the field of human endeavor has there been a more mighty band of brothers.

Tell me if I'm laying it on too thick ;)

I'll get working on this map.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I would be interested in this too. I've never played in a MP game though, so I am a complete newb to that (but been playing SP since the game was released), but I think a cooperative game would be fun. If you don't mind, I would like to join, just got to tell me how to get started in MP and what, if any Mods I need.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Five of us? That would be great, I will have to ask that nobody else ask to join so I can get the map done and the game going.

Good to have you aboard Thanatus del Dragos. Can you enable private messaging with your account please? Instructions are in post #14.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I'm not happy with using the "Cradle of Dominion" map now we have five players, I'm looking for one slightly larger and I have chosen Alexander

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I've enabled Private messages, this sounds like fun.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Oh, and I would like to play as Fomoria, is that is alright and no one has chosen them.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Maybe Doo will update the first post, but I think the summary so far is:

(Doo, if I've got any of the details wrong below please let me know.)

Patch v3.26 (are we using the new patch?)
Mod: Better Independents v2.1 (otherwise vanilla)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39225

Map: *Alexander (290 provinces: 246 land, 44 sea)

*Doo is running the map through semi-rand to spice up the independents and buff the AIs, and maybe getting some additional ideas from NTJedi for some additional customization. End result, I don't think there's any need to download the map from the forums here - we'll be playing a fairly modified version of it which Doo (or Llamaserver) will distribute.

Early Age
5 players vs ? AIs (single team of AIs?)

Gold, resources and gems standard.

Score graphs on?
Hof 15?
Renaming on?

Player Nations:

? Doo
? Endomorphius
? Mauxe
Kailasa Hrum
Fomoria Thanatus del Dragos

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

One important piece of information: I will need at least one AI opponent(preferably two) with a fixed starting location. Otherwise there's very little I can do to help them.

The help I will provide the AI opponents will primarily be defensive... then any future maps I can make more challenging if desired.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I'm hoping to fix all locations so this is ok.

Please head over to this thread in the Multiplayer section and post there. I've put the game parameters in the first post.

Please don't post in this thread anymore.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

I know you said to not post but this thread might still be a good place to post the "how and why" stuff to keep it separate from the "MP game and join up" stuff.

What you are creating is referred to as a "scenario" game. Where there is a story and goal other than just king-of-the-hill player-vs-player.

Some things to consider..

You can zone the map to make things easier for the players to cooperate. Not scatter the AIs in with the players. Since the game numbers provinces from bottom to top, this is easiest if the AI has control of the top or the bottom of the map (or both). Then a script can be created to easily mark a large portion of the top or bottom as "no start" allowing the players to be randomly placed within the zone still left open.

Some scenarios Ive had are D.A.R.E. (Deadly Atlantis Rlyeh and Ermor alliance) where Ermor was majorly entrenched on a southern island with Atlantis and Rlyeh in oceans protecting it. Since Ermor as allied it would not attack Atlantis and Rlyeh and they would not attack each other. So the wter nations tried to expand, while Ermor sat and researched. The goal was to take out Ermor before it hit some critical spells.

In NaV I created super-allied nations which used each others units. And gave them directions of attack across the map. (the AI hates separated castles and will concentrate on connecting them)

Ive also done "Independents Uprising" , and "Mother Nature is Pissed" (2 Oceania and 3 Pangaea allied, "the various nations of Man have begun to destroy the planet, Beware of Global Swarming"), and a very simple one called WE-vs-THEM which split the map and gave half to the AIs. Also one called "We Have Created a Pantheon" (bunch of gods dividing up jobs such as god of the air, god of the earth, god of the dead) which used pretenders born of the same mother.

Giving the AI immobile pretenders also helps avoid some problems. Also boosting their resources, and boosting their research, can put them more on par with human players. I would put add resource boost sites on the AIs main castle (to nudge it to make more of its elite units) and magic boost sites on its secondary castle.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Oh and you can create allied teams among the computer players. I do it in my Chaos games.

I was also considering it for a scenario game. "The One God has arrisen and already has a One Enemy. We are trapped between them. Heathens and Pagans and Idols unite. Throw out your old personal gripes and form a single mission. To survive." which was going to use two of Anos modded nations. One built around angels had the top of the map and one that is built around devils had the bottom. Those were "aimed" at each other using no-neighbor provinces owned in the other AIs territory so their first goal would be to reach each other. The players were all randomly placed in the middle between the two opposing forces.

Oh and NT Jedi is a great choice for doing your AI setup. Especially if you are using LLamaServer since the AIs will have to be human started then turned AI. You lose and gain some options that way. You cant choose aggressive, defensive, standard as AI settings and you Im not sure if you can exceed human pretender build limitations. But you can do a god that is dormant or imprisoned.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Bummer, because thats a key factor of the SemiRand program, AI's with pretenders decked out in gear, wielding boosted magic levels and with happy scales.

I must investigate this.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

LLamaServer's menu just cant take in every possible thing about the game. If you are a creative person who tends to exceed menu'd lists then for some things you will probably always have to go to a server where you can choose absolutely anything.

The game is kindof "broken" as far as whether or not to use map-command gods or directly chosen gods. If it was working "right" it would only allow one or the other. Especially for downloadable scenarios. If there is a map-built god, then it should not allow someone to join as that nation. And if they do join and create a god then it should ignore all of the map commands.

But if Ermor has a map-command god, and someone joins as Ermor and sends in a god, what you end up with is alittle bit of both. I havent played with that much. Like I said I considered it broken. But if I remember right your uploaded god is used for the selection of the chasis and magic. The map commands for the scales. That might let you exceed build-limits. I dont know if it fails cheat check, and I dont know. about equip. But if I remember, it still wont do quite what you want.

Re: If your an SP player let me know if....
 

Mauxe and Endomorphious, I've moved the discussion for this game to:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...126#post769126