An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Illwinter Developers,

Thank you for making Dominions 3. You have created an amazing game.

In the 30 years I've been playing computer games, I've come to appreciate game design as an art. There is no formula for creating a compelling game; it is only the creative discernment of the designers which distinguishes a poor game from a good one. Dominions is clearly the work of masterful designers. You have created a game which is vast, engaging, well balanced, amazingly nuanced, and endlessly replayable. Even under the best of circumstances, it is difficult to create a work of art, but you have done it. You have captured lightning in a bottle. You have created a masterpiece. I applaud your achievement.

In my opinion, Dominions stands at the pinnacle of strategy gaming. Strategy games strive to provide entertainment by giving the player a range of strategic choices, then making success or failure in the game dependent on those choices. These days, most games avoid strategy. Even games marketed as strategy games de-emphasize the strategy elements and emphasize role-playing and arcade elements instead. Not Dominions. Dominions fully embraces the strategy concept, and I love it.

I've heard Dominions criticized for its high level of detail. I suspect, however, that detail is regarded as a flaw only by those accustomed to the superficial detail found in other games. In most other games, the game mechanics reduce details to a simple level of abstraction, making them nothing more than a thematic facade. In Dominions, on the other hand, the details are seldom gratuitous; almost all of the units, spells, and items give players real strategic choices, and thus add nuance to the gameplay.

I've also heard Dominions criticized for its micromanagement. In fact, I find the Dominions user interface to be remarkably efficient for the level of nuance it supports. Many strategy games attempt to create the illusion of complexity by using convoluted economic or combat models, or by providing inefficient controls. Those games use micromanagement to mask their shallow gameplay. Dominions employs no such nonsense. In Dominions, micromanagement is not busywork, but is the necessary effort required to implement a deep and subtle strategy.

I'm aware that the market for turn-based strategy games like Dominions is small, and that makes it hard to fund development. I imagine this must be discouraging. However, I'd like to offer encouragement by pointing out that the market will grow over time, customers will become easier to reach, and you are the best in your niche. Furthermore, you clearly have a dedicated group of fans. I can only hope that you will find a way to continue your creative output, whether it be further improvements to Dominions 3, a Dominions 4, or an entirely new venture.

Once again, thank you for creating a wonderful game. May you find success in all things.


-TC

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

the devs have day jobs, you know.

actually, as far as micromanagement, I'd like an auto-recruiter and some way for armies to move from province to province without me having to remind them each turn.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Awesome post - agree 100%. :)

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

About the dayjobs? Dude, that is harsh. :D

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Agreed. Simple things that would help with micromanagement:

1) Infinite recruitment queues for both commanders and troops.

2) Specify the destination, let the game get the units there. This should also work without a commander being present.

3) Rally points for new recruits.

4) Insane units shouldn't lose their orders--execute their insanity but then go back to whatever their previous orders were.

5) A mage without orders should site search if he can do so usefully, otherwise he should research if there is a lab. Any commander with a purely useful ability should use it if possible.

6) Global forging: It would be like a recruitment queue except it would be of magic items you want your mages to make. Given a choice the job would always be given to the most efficient mage that can make it. Any mage set to research or idle could be given the job, ones with other orders would not.

7) Global casting: You specify that you want to cast without first specifying the mage. It then comes up with a list of mages that can cast it and are available, you select one or more to actually cast it.

7a) Global site search casting: You specify the paths to be searched (the default being everything you can search) and it allocates mages assuming gems, mages and unsearched targets--running out of any of these doesn't stop it, just puts it on hold until it can again be cast. (Thus you can pretty much just turn it on and leave it knowing that all provinces will be searched as possible, including ones you take.)

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I can safely say that I've played many games, liked them much, but this thing has been the only able to make me stay awake until 5 AM since the mid 90's of UFO and MOM.

You gentlemen hit the nail with this. Probably very few out there will ever notice it, but I can also safely say: you have programmed an immortal classic. And it is nothing I say about every game I play.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

There is a new Illwinter project. Its been worked on for over a year if I remember right. It is not a major Dom3 extension, nor a Dom4. Its a whole new direction. And Im afraid that is all we can find out.

Steps to help with MicroManagement:
Blitz games in the chat channels
Musical Chairs games (last person automatically stales)
goal games such as VP points
Game setting: Magic Sites lower
Game setting: Event Rarity lower
Game setting: Money lower
Game setting: Resources lower
Game setting: Supplies lower
Game setting: Magic Research lower
Game setting: Indepts higher or boosted AIs
smaller maps
Special Maps: such as Tower, or NI (no independents map)
Mods: such as Better Independents
3rd party programs: such as SemiRand or Chaos or PI (partial independents)
and I know there are more but I dont remember them right now so you might need to look for the many threads on the subject

TIP: many of the other suggestions involving "devs please change this" stuff can be done with 3rdparty macro programs as are very popular with mmorpgs

And of course I totally agree that its a great game. Ive been gaming for half a century and this has been my favorite game for a decade. (and I dont even prefer strategy wargames)

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I don't think that this thread is the place to discuss this but, gemgen removal also really helps with the micro management. The Conceptual Balance Mod version 1.6 did it. (Or at least made them unique) 1.71 did the same for hammers, sanquine dousing rods, and jade knives, so that might not be every bodies cup of tea. Can't believe you forgot that GP.

And I disagree that Musical chair games remove micro. I like the concept, but I don't think the micro is less. (Same with some of your other suggestions, they can reduce game length (which isn't the same as MM of course), and create interesting and fun other types of play. Esp the 3rp party programs and better or no independents really make SP a lot more challenging.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Less to manage is less micro. If the game comes to a close before getting to the massive armies and provinces of other games then its less micro. Not the best answer but it would seem to be an option.

And thanks for mentioning CBM. I knew there were items left out. But I dont have much experience with CBm anymore.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Yes, I too would kill for waypoints.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

In my really big games Ive used macros for waypoints.
Well more for designated marches. Jump to prov #, assign units to commander, make first move, in that prov move the commander there to next prov, etc etc until all have been moved one prov toward the staging province. Then jump back to original prov and queue up more units and commander

But its only worth doing for really large long running Dom3 games (which Im known for)

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I have alway found that the UI has been very logical considering how many options you have. And as long as you use quick-buttons you can make things happen with very little effort.

There is only one thing about the UI thats really bothering me and thats the fact that spells-cast-notifications that show up in the message screen has a button next to it that say "Go to Commander". It would be much more useful if it said "Go to target" so I could see the result of he spell first hand. I usually know who cast it, but I dont always remember were i cast it. This is especially a problem for site searching spells and if i find something with them I will be compelled to find the province I cast it on. Witch could take a while.

This is doubly a problem if I used the cast monthly command. As then I never knew were I cast it in the first place.

Same with mind-hunt. I cant remember what all my generic commanders and scouts are called so it would be better if there was a button to point me to were the dead guy was positioned.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I love this game. I play it more than any game I've ever had.
I still play it, and I've never stopped playing it, even after nearly four years. I can't say that for other games.

But what really gets to me is the micromanagement involved in having to mobilize my armies. Each turn, I must tell commanders in all my provinces to go one province further. Oh, how I wish I could simply say "Go there!" and leave them to figure it out for themselves. Moving troops from deep within my territory to the war front is exhausting because of this. Especially on large maps, which are the ones I prefer.
I'd also like to be able to have my provinces recycle recruit orders, so I don't have to go province to province clicking on Ulm pikeman. But that is secondary to moving.
Even if such changes will never be made (and I don't believe they will), I will still love this game.
But whatever could be wrong with more love?

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

The problem is that this is a turn-based pbem game.

Im not saying that makes it impossible. I just want to point out that it wasnt just an obvious feature that got forgotten. Such games try not to "remember" things from one turn to the next unless its the map. Many things could be done better if the game remembered more things from turn to turn. Whether the AI "sees" you or alliances or AI strategies. But everything that gets put into a "remember this" variable has to a bug or cheat factor. That means that each turn it rereads that info and has to do every check on it as if it was requested that same turn.

Every item that gets carried from turn to turn in a saved file gets serious consideration, and most of them get cut. So yes, each time the game hosts you pick up a fresh turn and give all new commands for lots of things that it would be nice if it saved

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

yeah..

I can still dream

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

It also would help a lot if gems (and maybe itmes) could be transported at will. We're talking about gods and a month's timeframe. Even a regular pigeon could do it reasonably.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

maybe the magical energies become unstable?

like critical mass, but without the uranium, magic gems instead.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

It's funny how this "This game is truly awesome" thread has changed into "We'd like UI changes".

I guess it's because, being here, it goes without saying that we all agree that the game is awesome.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

indeed.
I think I began it with, while I love this game and play it all the time, there are always things you could improve. Which, come to think of it, wasn't really the OP's point

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Technically no. We are not talking about gods.

Usually its a minor point and not worth mentioning. We use god and pretender interchangeably. But in discussions of why the game does or doesnt allow something, keep in mind that it is not gods. The game refers to them as pretenders. The Pantokrator has left leaving an opening for new gods. Pretenders are beings who for some reason have risen above average, and are trying to convince large enough amounts of population to worship them and make them gods. The end of the game is when it announces the "ascension" of one of the players. They do come with some abilities but they are not gods (yet).

This comes up when someone asks why gods dont have holy powers, cant cast bless, arent all immortal, etc etc. In some ways their followers belief in their "god" can give them more power than the pretender himself can get since he cannot believe in himself to that same level of faith.

Blame it on Kristoffer (one of the 2 developers of the game). His day job is teaching religio/mythos which is great for the thematic content of the game but he can be a stickler for some points. :) (just kidding, Kris you know we love you)

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I hope not, Stars! did all this and more many moons ago :) I'm one of those still waiting for Supernova...

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I didnt say it was impossible. Just heavy.
Stars had a lot less checks to do on it also.
(and yes Im on the SuperNova list also along with VGAP4, MoM2, SEIV-OS, and King of Dragons Pass the sequel)

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Maybe there is some way of using an external program such that the checks don't need to be applied i.e. the moves / commands are stored local to the user only. The lack of decent micro-management is a shame.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Ask GP, he has used some sort of macro program for it.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

There are many programs called macro programs. Some very simple and some that get really involved with programming options. I used AutoHotKey

It allows you to record the actions of the mouse and keyboard, then assign that recording to a keypress such as Ctrl-W to play it back the same way very very fast.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

could you upload some configurations? thank you, btw, info on that program seems quite helpful

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

the one change i would most like is an order that makes a unit do nothing (or hide) until i tell them otherwise, so i wont have to cycle thru all my scouts and idle non-mage commanders a couple times every turn.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Even if it's just for the current turn. All I want is not to have cycle through 100 scouts to see if there's one mage I missed.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Yup. A "Nothing" order would be nice. It wouldn't solve the whole problem, though, because you still get bugged for siege units.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I've decided for myself that I generally I am out of dominions (as a player at least) untill there would be an opportunity to let AI make orders for player's kingdom, and then let human player make changes and improvements on that orders. I think micromanagement kills too many pretenders - including MP games. In SP I have many games where I am clear victor, and not a single one where I had enough patience to take even half of provinces, not speaking about achieving formal victory.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Kref, I think its a great idea!

To be able to turn AI controll on and off i would consider very helpful and i think it might be very well implementable.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

i would also very welcome if horror seed got fixed and worked as intended.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Heck, I think a "mop up" button for SP would be great, allowing me to fast forward to victory (keeping my save game in case I accidentally "mop up" too soon). And being able to toggle AI control would be awesome.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I think burden of time in this form is seriously unbalanced, since it has the ability to nearly unavoidably cripple a great deal of nations while not affecting several others. However i think it brings to the game some unique tools i would like to keep (killing off pop and not too important units), so i'd prefer not banning it from my games. One possible, and - perhaps - easily implemented fix would be making boots of youths and elixirs of life protect the wearer from the effect of BoT.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Make units older with a percentage of their maxage instead of a fixed value could work.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Well, that would make things even worse for people already affected by it, but yes, that'd make the long-lived races notice it as well.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

if strategic balance is what matters to you, I suggest you try CBM.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

what do u mean? i always play with CBM. what made u think i didnt?

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

you asked for moar balance.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

I would like to go back to the original post and add my support to the fulsome praise for the game design. Unfortunatly, it must be mixed with my wife's abuse of the designers. The more I like a game, the more she hates it. It is sort of like points for scales...

In any case, I look forward to your next project and thank you for your thought and intellectual energy.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Though different temperature scales looks fun for different nations, is it really reasonable that it gives extra points? Are those nations which require normal temperature like man, ulm , are really so much stronger that give this advantage to such underdogs as Niefelheim, Hinnom, etc which receive bonuses?

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

i understand militarist's point, but i see no problem with some nations having "extra" points.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

It was part of the (acknowledged confusing) balance of Dom3. It was very hard to compare nations because the balance was not units to units, magic to magic, scales to scales, etc. It took in all of that and more. If there was a formula then it was very long.

Add to that the balance was better with the original nations and more questionable with each added nation.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Was it really intended as part of the balance?
Or was it simply (or mostly) thematic? These nations should like temperature extremes, so they shouldn't be penalized for taking them.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

There is no way it was done for balance. It was more likely done for thematic reasons. Most of the temp preferences made their way over from Dominions 2.

Re: An Open Letter to Illwinter Game Design
 

Dear developers! Since i consider mass-horrormarking an important game-play mechanic, and i think fixing of this spell wont happen in the near future (if ever), what about forgetting the whole lurking-horrors part, and making this ritual just horror mark and curse every unit in a province (an effect they ought to do anyway)? I would love it.