Question about gems in combat...
 

This doesn't seem to be in the FAQ, so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me.

I have a level one nature mage who needs to cast a combat spell which is level two AND requires two gems. Here's the question: I know he can boost himself to level two and cast a second level spell, but I'm confused if this would count as three gems (one for the boost, two for the spell) and therefore be more than the rules allow... "A mage can only use as many gems as his current skill level in that path."

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

He can only use one gem. You can't use gems to boost your ability to use gems.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

Here's where I'm confused, though... I know he can't raise his level more than once, so two is the highest level he could go, but wouldn't this allow him to use the two gems necessary to cast the spell? I assumed that the casting gems were treated differently than the boosting gems. If not, does that mean you can only cast level two spells if they have no gem requirements?

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

Yes. He's only got 1 level, therefore he can only use one gem to cast a spell.
That gem can boost his level or power a spell.

You are correct. He can only cast L2 spells that don't use gems.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

OK, then let's say he started at level 2 :) Then 1 to boost leaves 1 to spend. So he can cast L3 spells which use up to 1 gem, right? If he starts on Ln, he can cast L(n+1) spells costing up to L(n-1) gems ;)

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

That sounds right.

Do note that all the other ways of boosting path level do let you spend more gems: booster items, booster spells, communions.
For example, a F1 mage could case a F3 1gem spell by first using a gem to cast Phoenix Power, then 2 gems to cast the F3 spell.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

Does the caster have to be scripted to self-boost? Does that count as a "turn"? Or does it just "happen"? [I meant, for the original method.]

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

It just happens, or rather you give him the order to cast X and he'll burn however many gems he can/wants to cast X. No delay, no special script. Since the path increase only lasts one turn, it would be pretty silly to have it use a full action :)
If the mage cannot reach a state in which he can cast X (e.g. doesn't have enough gems, or you thought the gem used to increase the path gave him one more gem "slot" when it doesn't) then he'll go off script and cast whichever spell strikes his fancy.

Note that mages also tend to burn gems to reduce the fatigue cost of spells, sometimes in stupid or unnecessary ways so if the boosted spell you want to cast has to happen late in the script for some reason you probably want to give that mage an excess of gems just in case. Better safe than sorry.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

Remember this. If you don't make sure the mage has the gems needed, it will inevitably manage to pick the single worst spell possible as a replacement.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

Phantasmal Wolf spam...

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

There are also cases where a mage who has the gems and capability to cast the given scripted spell but won't.

One example is if the enemy is too "weak" as popular wisdom has it and seem to fit most of the time, but I have yet to figure when exactly AI consider "weak". For example, I've teleported a lone mage into a horde of 200+ troops army and triggered their gem spells, and I've also seen a casting of ghost rider (33 troops + leader) not trigger enemy gem spells. Once you get a feel for it (through many trial and error) you'll get a somewhat accurate feel of when gem spells will be triggered or not.

Also unique cases with spells like reinvigoration, I have never seen my mages cast this spell when scripted under the few circumstances I tried. I HAVE seen opponent cast it once before, I wonder what the trick is to get a mage to cast this spell... Just be careful if you plan to rely on this spell in communions of clutch casters. My gem-trigger sense seem to be fail completely when it comes to trying to cast this spell.

Basically, knowing how to manipulate the AI to do what you want and compensate for the AI's shortcoming is critical. Otherwise seemingly effective scripts will go out of control.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

So true. I can vouch that your "spell feel" is way better than mine.

To premptively answer the usual followup question of "why didn't my !#&$&(! slave rich Demon cast his infernal prison spell on the uberSC??... is that he was a couple steps too far away..." ;)

In other words... alway factor in range (best you can) when scripting. The pros are really good at it.
ssj

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

In my experience, mages won't cast reinvigoration unless they have fatigue. If you want to reinvigorate communion slaves with a master, the master will need to cast something to give himself fatigue before every cast of reinvigoration. In practice this means you can only script reinvigorate twice per master and have it work. In theory you could do it every round with one master wearing a flame helmet, but I've never tried that.

My testing also seems to show that communion masters won't use gems to raise their skill level for skills that are boosted by the communion. They can use the number of gems that you would expect, but for some reason they can't use any of them to boost their skill up another level.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

One of my attempts to cast reinvigorate in communion involves half a dozen mages casting sabbath (no matrixes are involved), on casting sabbath my slaves and master racked up a bit of fatigue, followed by a round of spells then reinvigorate from the master in turn 3, by then the fatigues were above 50 for the master who should be casting reinvig next. The reinvigorate didn't go off, instead I get imps (It's always the damn imps!), enemy had a forces of 50+ units. Suffice to say the round 5 reinvigorate didn't go off either, let's just say the battle did not go my way.

I'll admit I only tried two more times afterward half heartedly, then gave up on the spell in disgust.

I believe you are right on the fatigue, but it must be something else preventing my mages casting in this case.

Good tip on the communion master not being able to use gem boost.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

Now don't say that ! Sometimes the AI picks a real battle-turner. Like Touch of Madness, cast on your mage stack. That changes the course of the whole battle alright :D.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

So, in a slightly different twist on the topic of gems in combat:
How many gems can a mage use above the cost of the spell? I'd thought it was only one, but I just had a Communioned up Dakini use 3 gems to cast Arrow Fend. It should have been A6 with the Communion, so only about 12 fatigue before gems and without the communion.
Do Communions screw up the algorithm?

My usual practice, if I wanted a mage to cast multiple gem-using spells, has been to give him one extra for each spell but the last. It's usually worked. Do I have to fall back to giving him Path gems for each spell to be sure?

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

I don't know how many gems you must apply to guarantee that your script will work. I wonder that myself... it seems that I can usually guess right. But mages can certainly use loads of extra gems, as long as they don't use more than one per magic skill level per casting. This thread hits that question about halfway through: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45210

Particularly, I often wonder whether the AI makes any effort to save gems that'll be needed by a later part of the script. I suspect it doesn't... maybe somebody who looks at debugging logs can give some evidence?

(I can't address the communion part of the question.)

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

Mage will not try to save gems for multi gem spells.

I go by the rule that AI will always burn as many gems to cast a gem spell at below 40 fatigue, and this seems to work for me most of the time. So do your calculation using this rule of thumb (taking into account magic dom, encumbrance), then add +1 extra just in case and you should almost always be able to get more then 1 gem spells out. Of course it they can't burn any more gems then their path.

I think there might be an AI rule that if they are about to go above 100 fatigue from a spell, they will burn as many gems as possible to stay below 100, even if the spell does not need gems.

Re: Question about gems in combat...
 

I always give Path gems (accounting for combat boosts) for all gem requiring castings before last one.