SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Hi All:

There have been some Posts regarding the SEIV GOLD Rebate in a number of topics, so I thought I would discuss this here.

We thought long and hard about how to handle this, and requiring the CD, or a piece thereof, was our solution to many problems. Is it the best solution we could come up with. Here was our process:

Facts:

1. There are over 40,000 pirated copies of SEIV in existance (our conservative estimate). This includes the numbers of Users who buy the game copy the CD and then resell the original for say $25.00 - BUT continue to play with what is now a pirated Version of the game. It they don't have the original CD, then they don't own the game.

2. We have sold many thousands of copies into mom-and-pop retailers and internet distributors like Chips and Bits. We have no access to who bought what from these folks.

3. Digital copying makes it easy to copy the manual cover so that we couldn't tell if it was an original or not. Yes, you would have to be didicated, but not impossible. This is not possible with the CD.

4. We want everyone entitled to a rebate to have one if desired. However, many people have expressed interest in buying at full value to further support Aaron and his work rather than saving $15 -$20.

5. To ship a piece of the CD with our logo to a foreign country with the form would cost us 80 cents. We hopefully figured that the reverse would be true so the expense will not be outrageous to get your rebate.

I will drop by from time to time to try to answer questions and if someone can come up with a better solution that protects our interests, please feel free to post.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

is the new Version backwards compatable? if i buy the gold edition, will i be able to play in PBW games with people whom have only the old Version? that would kill part of the reason to persue the rebate, as you would be cutting yourself off form part of the player base by not having copies of both Versions.

also, is the non-gold Version going to continue to be supported in patches? i would imagine not..

maybe including a 'legacy' copy of the game on the new gold CD (space allowing) would make it so that destroying the old CD is no loss. since the old Version would not be updated any longer, that legacy copy would let people play with anyone who has not upgraded to gold.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

What about the packing slip? it could be coppied but if you limit it to one per household, so that would be very hard.
I personnally don't want to break the SE4 CD.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I wrote my view about it, in other topic, but want to comment about the facts that you wrote:

- About facts 1 and 3: I think that if a guy got a SE4 pirated copy, probably will get a pirated SE4 Gold copy too. If not, well, at least you got a customer! And also, you can see my view about the Fact 2.

- Fact 2. Well, we live in the knowledge age, right? I think that Shrapnel could get the info anyway... If not, well, so bad, this guy will be forced to send the piece of the CD. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

- Fact 4: purchasing a new copy of the same game (although will include improvements), it's in my view, a way to support Aaron... with or without the rebate.

- Fact 5: first must say that I really dislike the idea to destroy the CD. Second, I'm pretty sure that will be unable to send the piece using the standard mail, and at least from my country, will be more expensive to me, send the piece than receive the rebate.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

it will fit in a regular envelope, and should not weigh more than two or three sheets of paper. that is, if you just send in the logo. why does it cost extra postage if it does not weigh more than a regular letter or if it does not take a larger envelope?

if the old cd has that much sentimental value to it, dont send in for the rebate. seems simple enough. of course, this is probaby why god invented proof-of-purchace in the form of UPCs and boxtops. the manual is probably about as hard to reproduce as a UPC, so why not ask for the cover, or a specific page? if it can be reproduced on the same stock of paper and such, it would certainly cost more than $15 to do. at least in the time and effort involved. or hell, just ask for the whole freakin manual. it will weigh more than the chip off the CD, but it might be better for some people than breaking the disc.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>maybe including a 'legacy' copy of the game on the new gold CD (space allowing) would make it so that destroying the old CD is no loss. since the old Version would not be updated any longer, that legacy copy would let people play with anyone who has not upgraded to gold.<hr></blockquote>

I like this idea. We will look into it.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>What about the packing slip? it could be coppied but if you limit it to one per household, so that would be very hard.<hr></blockquote>

Again, you are assuming everyone bought from us. Also, not many people keep packing slips. It has to be fair to all and not a drain on our resources.

Also mentioned was getting everybody's databases - this is impractical, probably impossible, and expensive as we would be searching through many databases. If it costs us $10.00 to verify the sale, well, there goes the rebate.

And you can mail the piece in a standard envelope. You don't need special packaging.

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Tim Brooks ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Well, as for me... I figure I'm going to keep the original CD (sentimental value), and shell out the extra $15. And I wouldn't consider sending the manual, I got a signed copy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

you got a signed copy? when were they offering those?

MMs in SF, yeah? Think I could get my CD signed if i knocked on their door? Think it would help if i brought burgers and beer?

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>5. To ship a piece of the CD with our logo to a foreign country with the form would cost us 80 cents. We hopefully figured that the reverse would be true so the expense will not be outrageous to get your rebate.<hr></blockquote>

I don't live in the US, so is the rebate available here in Australia? From your words it sounded like a "yes", but unless the cheque is drawn on a local bank I can't see how I can redeem it.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I see the same problem as CW. My bank will charge the equivalent of around 10 US $ to cash a cheque from the US (I live in Switzerland). So there will be almost no profit left.
But I bought the gold Version anyway as a support for the game and MM, so I do not care too much about the discount and will probably keep the original CD to make a gift to someone.

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Q ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I don't live in the US, so is the rebate available here in Australia? From your words it sounded like a "yes", but unless the cheque is drawn on a local bank I can't see how I can redeem it.<hr></blockquote>

Uhhh, good point. I thought we had thought of everything, but it can cost alot just to cash a check from another country. How about if we offer an option for a $15.00 coupon to our store. Would that help? We thought about just giving a credit back on your charge card, but each transaction like this costs us about $3.00. We could offer to credit your card for $12.00 in place of the check? What do you think of these ideas?

Oh, and yes, the offer is good to anyone, anywhere that has the CD.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Another thing that can be done, providing thier bank doesn't overcharge for it, is to open up accounts in a bank in each country. start it with maybe 20 bucks. Then you can transfer money to it then give them a check.<hr></blockquote>

It will cost you a fortune to transfer money overseas, and many banks require you to open the account in person.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How about if we offer an option for a $15.00 coupon to our store. Would that help? We thought about just giving a credit back on your charge card, but each transaction like this costs us about $3.00. We could offer to credit your card for $12.00 in place of the check? <hr></blockquote>

I'd rather take the $12 than the $15 coupon. There is no garantee that I'll be interested in another Shrapnel game. What's worst, buying a game from the US from my place (Australia) means almost 100% inflation on the price - for shipping, credit card charges etc. SEIV costed me a fortune compared to an off-the-shelf game here, and an off-the-shelf game here costs twice as much again compared to the same product brought from places like Hong Kong (I'm talking about legal originals of cause!). So you get my feeling.

What's stopping you guys from taking that $15 off the purchase price? We can provide some prove of purchase, anything BUT a piece of the CD... I just don't feel nice doing THAT! And what about an UPGRADE Version that requires the original during installation? I've bought a very expensive 747 instrument simulator that did exactly that when a new Version came out.

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: CW ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I'm for the $12 rebate on my credit card - it will cover the shipping cost for me.

Space Empires IV was the Last computer game I bought - Last January - so if it has been that good, I'm sure you guys deserve the extra cash for the Gold Edition.

I just can't wait to February!

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Puke:
you got a signed copy? when were they offering those?

MMs in SF, yeah? Think I could get my CD signed if i knocked on their door? Think it would help if i brought burgers and beer?<hr></blockquote>

They were offering those when we finished the beta testing phase. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Now, I can't say if Aaron would sign your copy if you showed up on his doorstep, but I think anyone that has a signed copy right now was a beta tester at some point.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Just a thought, PayPal now has an international option. For over-seas gamers, it might be worth looking into. Basically free for the Users and I think a business only pays a low percentage rate. I've used them in the past for CONUS purchases and have been very happy with the results.
--
TAZ (living in Oklahoma)

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Hi to all.
It's nice to hear of the extended features of SE 4. But as with all purchases from the USA to Europe (Germany in my case). They are very expansive and a little bit uncertain!!!

There are 3 big points on rebate and shipping related items.

1) Not all Online purchases reach the customer and it is a heck to locate, track and then get the item if it has been lost in shipping. If you get it at all !!! (It's not that uncommon)

2) The shipping cost !! SE 4 was the first game i
bought Online (no other way to get it)and after the customs opened the package it cost me around
USD 75,00. I had it ordered through chips and bits
as they had the lowest shipping costs.

3)not everyone has a credit card or is willing to
order with the card on the internet. in my case i order usually through friends. and therefore there is no direct proof i ordered the game.

as of this i ask shrapnell to think of a way to:

a) consider the outside of usa purchases in their
offer on rebate. i think the 12,00 usd option
on a credit card will be better for many
europeans than a check.

b) is there any other way to not !! sent the
original cd to get a rebate, as i do not want
to lose it if the shipping is lost.

shrapnell can set up a thread to get information
on shipping time, end cost for customer etc.
for overseas purchases just to get a feeling for the problem.

as there may be probably no way for me to get a rebate i would very much like more detailed
information on the added items.
will this be possible ?? (for example some excerpts from the new manual would be very nice,
more details on new graphics, capabilities)
will the pdf file be downloadable also ?
hopefully nobody will be bored to death by now.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Manual. Did someone say manual!

This is a work in progress, so don't take it as golden. The manual will be in the 150 page range (as of right now) when completed and will have to be perfect bound (glued binding) due to its size. I know this isn't much, but maybe it will help those trying to decide what to do about GOLD. The manual is being written by Mark Walker, who has numberous game strategy guides and industry books to his credit including the just released "The Video Game Almanac." The manual will be something all will want!


Space Empires IV: User Manual Outline

Introduction

· About Space Empires IV
· A Brief Overview
· Quick Start

Getting Started

· System Requirements
· Installing the Game
· Additional Documentation

A Day in the Life of a Galactic Emperor
Walks the player through three or four turns of play. This is not a tutorial-like walkthrough, but rather a general description of the flow of play, and the choices made in the first few turns.

Game Interface

· The Startup Screen
· New Game Screen
· Scenario
· Quick Start
· Load
· Resume Game
· Tutorial
· Credits
· Quit Game

The Main Game Screen

· System Window
· Selection Window
· Galaxy Window
· Interface Selections-includes an overview of the following buttons. I intend to describe the Planets, Colonies, Ships or Units, Construction Queues, Empire Status, Help, Next ship/fleet/planet, selections in depth. I intend to briefly describe Designs, Research, and Empires, because I plan to go into depth on them later in the manual.
· Planet and Ship Interface Selections Consists of a nut and bolt examination of the selections available when ships and/or planets are selected.

Designs

Includes an explanation of all the selections available on the Designs screen. Special attention will be given to explaining exactly how to design a ship and unit.
· Design Screen Selections
· Ship and Unit Design

Production and Research

Describes how to research and produce. Describes all the selections on both the research and planet production screens.
· Research
· Production

Combat

Describes combat options. Special attention will be given to explaining how the player manages tactical combat, and how his or her choices affect the combat’s outcome.

Diplomacy

In-depth explanation of diplomacy, and each species in Space Empires IV.
· Diplomacy
· The Races of Space Empires IV

Editor and Player Add-ons

Details the Space Empires IV Editor and the user add-ons included on the Space Empires IV: Gold Edition ROM.

Appendices

*Hotkey and Attribute Icon List

Lists the Hotkeys and the attribute icons.

*Troubleshooting

*The credits.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Thanks for the reply. :-))
I know it is currently in development.But seems nice so far.
When are some sections done could there be
some examples to be seen Online ?? Just to get a feel for it.
As a suggestion, can there be added some how to's
with example setups on strategic combat or other ??
I have seen nice ones in this forum but they were to fragmented for myself and my limited time to really use them. maybe they can be compiled
as with the mods to be included, at least as a txt-file. i am pretty sure the authors of them would feel honored to be included.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tim Brooks:
The manual is being written by Mark Walker...<hr></blockquote>

I think that a PDF Version of this manual would be very interesting. I use to print a copy of my favorite games manuals and use the copy instead of the original. Sometimes i even print or copy portions to make a mini-manual or reference cards, and SE4 is the most complex game i've ever played.

BTW, i think this is the best addition.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Another thing that can be done, providing thier bank doesn't overcharge for it, is to open up accounts in a bank in each country. start it with maybe 20 bucks. Then you can transfer money to it then give them a check.

Just an idea.

EDIT-
Another stupid thought. Money Orders. any bank that charges a person to deposit a money order is not a real bank, just a criminal organization.

EDIT 2-
My spelling sucks!
[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Hadrian Aventine ]

[ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: Hadrian Aventine ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

You know if the manual is really very good, that alone would be worth the cost of the upgrade to Gold for me...

I'm starting to get more excited about this already...


CombatSquirrel

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tim Brooks:

How about if we offer an option for a $15.00 coupon to our store. Would that help? We thought about just giving a credit back on your charge card, but each transaction like this costs us about $3.00. We could offer to credit your card for $12.00 in place of the check? <hr></blockquote>

okay, here is the honest answer people will probably hate me for. since i think that darn near everyone hates me anyway, im not going to mind to much.

i am a lazy bastard. a business asociate of mine just got done relating a story about how his uncle just got done with a valve replacement. the same guy who though that five minutes of calisthenics each morning would be enough to keep him in good health. all I could think about was "****, thats five minutes more than I do each morning."

point being, I have a long shopping list of games that I want to buy and try. many of which are higher on the list than some shrapnel games. If offered a store credit, I would probably use it as an excuse to buy a 'good' game from your store rather than some slick piece of kit that i think looks nice and swanky from the screenshots and previews. if you offer an option of a refund OR a credit, i will probably take the refund because it would require less effort on my part.

actually, Honestly, i would probably take either nothing, or take the credit. If I did not want to see the serise develop into SE5 and beyond, I might take the refund.. but i can see how other people would readily ignore the credit bit if they were offered the refund.

I say you should offer either a credit or nothing. if you are offering a credit, you might be able to do it without any proof of purchase, thus all the non-cd-breaking people can be happy. that will also increase exposure to other shrapnel games, and encourage many of us here in the 4x comunity to branch into real mans games. like battletech you WUSSY WARHAMMER PLAYING ENGLISHMEN! PLAY A REAL WARGAME GODDAMMIT!

i mean, ah, umm.. too much newcastle, g'night.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>40,000 pirated copies of SEIV in existance <hr></blockquote>

Good god! This figure makes me sick. Too bad you can't impliment what sierra did with Tribes 2. A single user register. You get the game, install it, and registar it. It then sends you an activation code. The disk that you have can never be used again to obtain an activation code. The only other way to get an activation code is to request it from Sierra, and they don't give them out very often.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Puke:
you got a signed copy? when were they offering those?

MMs in SF, yeah? Think I could get my CD signed if i knocked on their door? Think it would help if i brought burgers and beer?<hr></blockquote>

Like the Baron said, at the end of the Beta Test phase. If you load up the game and click the "Credits" button at the bottom of the intro screen, look at the very Last beta tester on the list. Then look at my name... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

--edit: forgot about the burgers and beer... --
Not quite sure on that one, Aaron has been known to be a very private person (I was kinda suprised to see the "Special Thanks" that caught my attention). You might have to throw in some fries too. Possibly some tacos. Don't forget to bow and grovel and all that, until he gets annoyed at you getting on your knees and bowing in his direction, wailing "I am not worthy!" every five minutes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
--end edit--

And side note, I just clicked the "Credits" button, to see if anything changed since I Last looked (where my name was the Last thing on the list other than "Thanks for playing!"). There were some Shrapnel credits added, and a "Special Thanks" section. That part is quite interesting. w00t!

Congratulations, Aaron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

(Richard and/or Tim, you might have to convey several Messages to Aaron from the fans... heh)

[ 05 December 2001: Message edited by: Will ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I'm somewhat torn. On one hand I'll be getting several new features and continued support for the best 4x game ever (I've already ordered SEIV GOLD). On the other hand, it seems that Shrapnel and MM are trying to componsate for the lost income from illegal copies - which I think they are entitled to. However, how far will this go? Releasing a new CD will not stop illegal copies. Is there going to be an SEIV PLATINUM next year? Sure no one HAS to buy anything else, but the fact of the matter is a game like this is at its best when played with other people. Older Versions are not compatable with newer ones. In order for people to stay with PBW (or the new TCP/IP), they have to buy the new Version. It's not really a question of "Do you want drones?" it's a question of "Do you want to keep playing SEIV?" I do. However, some people might just find it easier to get an illegal copy of SEIV GOLD. After all, they already paid for SEIV once... And all of the other patches were free... (And no, I'm not suggesting pirating is at all appropriate, but I know how people think.)

You can declare me a heretic if it makes you feel better, but you have to consider the fact that the new features don't need a new CD to work. This is simply a case of Shrapnel and MM asking for more money. But that's what businesses do. And they'll get my money, and I imagine the money of many others on this forum. It's just that I'd hate to think that those of us who paid for SEIV and will pay for SEIV GOLD are being used to cover the losses for the people who have, and will continue to, pirate the the game.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I would say that if MM hadn't been attentive to the fans in the first place, then they deserve to be criticized. However, they seem to have more than listened to and tried to please the gamers here, and they also have the insight into the community to understand that modding is crucial ... SE4 seems to be one of the easiest to mod games ever made!

It is unfortunate that they brought up the pirating, issue, however. Honestly, while that may be of a 'business' concern, the fact is that MM despite 40,000 pirated copies out there has earned your money for the Gold Edition.

And earned it many times over. Please try to think of it that way. Yes, the pirates still 'win' you can say and the good guys pay more money, but the good guys are getting the best entertainment value in gaming, I would think, and the pirates are hopefully lined up to get caught somehow, some way in my Utopian Future.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Puke:
I say you should offer either a credit or nothing. if you are offering a credit, you might be able to do it without any proof of purchase, thus all the non-cd-breaking people can be happy. that will also increase exposure to other shrapnel games, and encourage many of us here in the 4x comunity to branch into real mans games. like battletech you WUSSY WARHAMMER PLAYING ENGLISHMEN! PLAY A REAL WARGAME GODDAMMIT!<hr></blockquote>

On the same line of thinking (more of less), if I only get a credit and not hard cash it will probably not provide enough motivation for lazy people like me to upgrade to the gold Version. Given that the gold upgrade or any Shrapnel games for that matter will actually cost me MORE than a brand new off-the-shelf game here in Australia; and that the gold Version only adds a few features; AND the fact that there are other off-the-shelf games that I'd like to get my hands on, I'm pretty sure what decision I'm going to make.

My point is a credit won't provide me with much benefit, since it will hardly be enough to pay for the postage to ship a game to Australia.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I can guarantee you that there will not be another SE:IV Gold or Platinum or whatever.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

But I very much hope for SE5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Richard:
I can guarantee you that there will not be another SE:IV Gold or Platinum or whatever.<hr></blockquote>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Since the "Gold" edition is just an extension of the current game that we all originally purchased, why not dispense entirely with the rebate issue by using a form of electronic distribution?

Make the "Gold" edition into a patch of the original game which adds all of the features/improvements and includes a .PDF Version of the new manual. Distribute it as an electronic download that can be purhased for $20 (and could even include some form of activation/registration code delivered via e-mail to combat piracy).

This avoids customers destroying the original CD and shipping it back, Shrapnel from wrestling with credits/rebate checks especially for customers overseas, and saves money for Shrapnel by not having to manufacture CD's for people who have already bought the original game, nor does Shrapnel have to print the new manual.

Many have written about their hesitancy to destroy the original CD, or even just the bother and cost, however minor, of sending it back. Overseas customers have clearly written that the costs involved with cashing checks from the U.S. hardly makes the rebate worthwhile. Shrapnel has written that credit card credits encur them a fee. Some customers are not interested in Shrapnel store credit.

We all love this game, and have always been overwhelmed by the level of attention and support provided by both Shrapnel and MM. We appreciate the attempt by Shrapnel to provide a savings in the form of a rebate to existing owners of the game.

Hundreds of companies distribute upgrades or even entire programs electronically in downloadable format, many with a form of piracy protection or registration process involved. I would think that employing this type of distribution has considerable advantages across the board for Shrapnel and only minor disadvantages for the customer. The customer does has the burden of printing the manual, of having an e-mail account to receive any activation code, and of the download itself (which could be somewhat cumbersome to those with modem connections, but high-speed Subscribers would not be inconvenienced at all.)

I think most existing customers would readily pay for this electronic upgrade, (even if the download took some time; i.e. over a phone modem) in order to dispense with the rebate hassle. Others who do find this upgrade process inconvenient, or for newcomers to SE4, could purchase the CD by the standard method.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I was one of the first to express concern about the rebate, the CD destruction, etc. But you know what? Never mind.

Reading this thread and the others has convinced me that Shrapnel and Malfador do deserve every penny. Like most other people, after finishing a game or three of any given game, I shelve it. SEIV is the ONLY game I keep coming back to. Why? Because it's constantly being improved. New stuff is added, whether by the community or the creator, that makes it worthwhile to experience again and again. No other game is as customizable...you don't like something? Mod it!

Which brings me to my point of why I'm going to purchase the Gold and forget about the rebate. What other genre of game does SEIV resemble? Massively MultiPlayer Online Games. MMPOGs. To highlight, MMPOGs are the only games that have a constant development cycle; they are constantly being patched and prodded and tweaked. Similarly, SEIV added Play-by-Web, for pity's sake. Most other games on the shelves are obsolete in the year, and their support is dust soon after release (sometimes the companies themselves fold). The only way MMORGs sustain the support is those annoying little '$9.95's or whatever they charge every MONTH.

Now, considering that there is constant support for the community, and I've been playing this for well over a year, it's not too unreasonable to ask for a little bit more with a new release. I have definitely gotten my money's worth from the initial purchase. I've certainly paid more for lesser games, too. If the Gold Version gives me another year of playability and helps development of SE5, I'm in.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I have enjoyed this game so much, I really don't care about the re-bate and will just buy the new game. Awhile back there was a thread where a lot of us were asking for an upgraded cd with a good number of hard code changes and additions and that we would be willing to pay for it. It looks like we got our wish. I for one am excited about the gold and can't wait. I want to thank Richard, Aaron, Tim and all the rest who made this possible. Tks....

just some ideas mac

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Hi. You say there's about 40K pirated Versions about, o.k. how many members are there that have been active in this forum. The good peeps that have posted seem to be genuine and honest, considering there are no flames or bad feelings, this, i think, is to do not solely with the excellent site and those who monitor it, but largely to the temperament and enthusiasm of the posters. So mayby i'm saying here, why not automatically rebate all those who have contributed in one way or another and those who havn't, ask for verification of authenticity. If i can find my damm delivery note from way back november 2k then i'll post it here if required. It just seems that most if not all, are being tarred with the same brush here in regards to proof of purchase. Please don't read this as an incitement to war, I don't wish to offend anyone and if i have then i apoligise, it's just that it's come out that way.

regards tic

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

the thing is, for shrapnel to offer a rebate, it has to be fair. they cant just give it out to who they want to, which is why they cant just use their own shipping records. whatever method they choose has to be above even the suspicion of being biased or unfair.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Why do we have to destroy our hole CD?!
When can't we send you our old original, with a sticky lable on it saying
'&lt;--
John Beech
124 Brlagrave Road. . .
etc.
etc.
ENGLAND

&lt;&lt;SE4 GOLD REBATE&gt;&gt;
--&gt;'

And then you include this in the package you send back to us.
No loss of original CD, very happy customer.

Also, HELLO SHRAPPY, LOTS OF PEOPLE BOUGHT THE GAME OFF YOU - for these people, you KNOW who they are, and where they live. YOU CAN give these people a rebate at least. . .

. . . for a) being loyal to SE4 originally, and b) being loyal to your great company.
(I mean that, you're great and have done some cool things).

Now I don't know how big your site is, but it can't be too much effort to post our intact CDs down to the shipping bays before packaging.

But I just suggested you don't need to do that for everyone - you will have details on some people.

This brings into consideration: morals of letting some people have the rebate and others lose out. The send part of your CD, (or the whole CD) is still 'workable'.
Infact, sending the whole CD might be a better idea: then people can't get rebates on two sets of CD bits (one for them, one for their mate).


Oooh, and if you need proof that I'm a loyal customer, and I relaly like SE4, and I've supported and all the rubbish, just come come over and visit my web site http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I hope my input helps you give loyal people desersed discounts.

Regards,
- John Beech
http://universalshipyards.tripod.com

edit/ corrected my homesite URL

[ 05 December 2001: Message edited by: Markavians ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

The simplest and fairest mechanism would seem to be that used by Enlight Software with the original Seven Kingdoms game: sell a patch to upgrade current Versions to "Gold" for $15-$20 (including the pdf Version of the new manual) and sell complete SEIV Gold as a boxed game with a printed manual to new buyers. This minimizes shipping problems, questions as to whether "enough" of the old CD was sent to qualify, rebate vs refund, etc. The only loser in this scenario would be Federal Express!

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Guys you don't need to break the CD, sending the whole thing is fine.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Selling games with pdf manuals are a bad idea because if you can get the pdf of the manual you can easily pirate it.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Forgive me, but I fail to understand the argument here about the rebate.

Simply put, if you send in your old SEIV disk, you will receive a rebate. I like this idea because it will provide proof that you indeed bought the orignial game.

I like the original game, and choose to keep it. I will purchase the Gold edition and be happy. If Richard or Aaron ever wish to verify that I my copy is real, then they can email me, and I will provide said proof.


OFF TOPIC RANT:
I despise pirated software and those who do it. I work, that is used to work, in an industry that had to protect it's intellectual property as well as products from copy cat companies and crooked individuals. One of the reasons I am now unemployed is because of Asian companies who can produce our technology cheaper, technology they accuired illegally. It will take my company years and millions of dollars to correct this, and in the mean time, several hundred people will have to go without a livelyhood.

I pray to god that someday the technology to prevent pirated software from being made will come, and when it does, I sincerely hope that those who do attempt to pirate software get burned and burned hard.

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: Atrocities ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Since the "Gold" edition is just an extension of the current game that we all originally purchased, why not dispense entirely with the rebate issue by using a form of electronic distribution?<hr></blockquote>

This opens us up to even more pirating. People who would never pirate a physical product don't feel the same way about an electronic download. We actually have studies on this from the Software Developers Association (or soemthing like that?). Strange, but it seems some people feel if there weren't physical costs then there weren't ANY costs.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Make the "Gold" edition into a patch of the original game which adds all of the features/improvements and includes a .PDF Version of the new manual. Distribute it as an electronic download that can be purhased for $20 (and could even include some form of activation/registration code delivered via e-mail to combat piracy).<hr></blockquote>

As Richard stated earlier, the pdf is a bad idea as that is the only thing that people can't pirate easily. You would be surprised how many requests we get each week for manuals - "I lost my manual could you send me another one". When we follow up with, sure it will cost x dollars and all we need is an original order number, we never hear back.

PLEASE READ:

At this point it looks like we will do the following:

Send us the CD or a piece thereof that includes the Shrapnel Games logo, and include the rebate form that comes with the GOLD Version. On the form will be three choices (you must select one):

1. $15.00 Check
2. $15.00 Store Credit
3. $12.00 Credit to your charge card.

We also, if space allows, will include the original Version of SEIV on the GOLD CD.

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: Tim Brooks

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: Tim Brooks ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>sure it will cost x dollars and all we need is an original order number, we never hear back.<hr></blockquote>

I bought my copy straight through Shrapnel and you guys probably still have my records. But if you ask me for the original order number now I frankly don't have a clue where to find it. Delivery slips and invoices for games didn't get kept long, especially if the game has been proven to work on my computer. You brought up something that I've never thought of and from now on I'll keep the slips permanently. I'm not suggesting anything, nor did I ever try to get a second copy of the manual (anybody found it useful at all?!?), just trying to put that straight in case those people are innocent...

Now on to what I'm trying to say. What if the CD I send get lost in the mail system? I will be left without a rebate, and that means I will be spending FOUR times the money for ONE single game. (compared to an off-the-shelf game here in Australia; SEIV + SEIV Gold = 2 titles but still the same game with 2 sets of shipping and credit card charges; and a title bought from Shrapnel costs approximately twice as much as a brand new game from the local shop) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I don't trust the mail system after a certain not-very-happy incident.

And before you start flaming at me, yes I know I'm don't have any useful solutions, I'm just trying to bring up all the potential problems before things are set in stone.

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: CW ]

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: CW ]</p>

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I bought my copy straight through Shrapnel and you guys probably still have my records. But if you ask me for the original order number now I frankly don't have a clue where to find it.<hr></blockquote>

Just to set the record straight, we have never turned down a legit request for a replacement of anything lost. Even if you don't have the manual, you know about when you bought it and where we shipped it. When people can't find their receipt, and they actually purchased the product, they write back stating so and we do a search of our database. No problem. This isn't what we are talking about. Plus, there aren't 20-30 people a week who lose their manuals. Although there are that many and more who get pirated Versions, and can't figure something out and try to get a manual from us, thinking it will help.

We have closed down numerouse auctions on e-bay for pirated Versions and right now are working with the FBI on two known pirates that did a sizable business selling illegal copis of this game.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>What if the CD I send get lost in the mail system?<hr></blockquote>

If you really believe we would deny someone a rebate who deserves it because the cd got lost in the mail, then you don't know us very well. There are ways to confirm your purchase and we will bend over backwards when this actually happens. However, it isn't cost effective for us to do this for everyone who requests a rebate - the rebate system we have in place will keep our costs down.

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Well I got mine from Chips and bits. It cost 2 arms and a leg at the time.

For the new one. I will not be requesting the rebate. But I ask that the 15$ goes towards SEIV#5 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif or to keep this great site going. It will be my way of saying thank you very much for the many,many hours spent with your products and and at your web site. And thanks for the 5 dollars off

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

This is to all who frequent the Space Empires IV Forums:

I just want to say that the SEIV crowd is great! You guys are so supportive of Aaron and Shrapnel Games and I want you to know how much we appreciate it.

Best to all and Merry Christmas!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Also:

Don't know if it will get on the site today, but we will be offering Space Empires IV GOLD Mouse Pads for those interested. We just cut the deal yesterday and I know it is scheduled to get into the Game Shop today, but sometimes we can be a little slow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

i dont use a mouse, what are the odds of you guys producing 'Phong silk-boxers' instead?

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

Thanks to that image I am officially blind now.

GAAAK *run away*

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I will not be requesting the rebate. But I ask that the 15$ goes towards SEIV#5<hr></blockquote>

Heh. I like this idea. Though I have no doubt that, in a couple of years, we'll be seeing SE5, complete with three-dimensional real-time tactical battles. Hrm... OK, perhaps that part's wishful thinking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, I'm wondering: am I the only person who saves important emails? 'Cuz I still have my invoice number, in the email confirmation I got from Shrapnel way back in September of Last year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

(In another folder, I have email saved back through June of 1996. I am anal, yes.)

Eric/LL

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

I'm with ya, bud. Although mine only goes back to 1997. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: SEIV GOLD Rebate
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
We also, if space allows, will include the original Version of SEIV on the GOLD CD.<hr></blockquote>

In that case, then yes I would send in my old copy.

One other thing though, if I send you a jewel would you please so kind as to put the SE IV Gold Edition disk into it and THEN send it too me. Last time, the Federal Express envelope looked like it had been ran through a mauler before I got it. I want an intact disk, not peaces of one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif