A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Since the RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR II - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign seems to be going pretty well, what are people's thoughts on a more "Modern" campaign using the same system/format? This is still in the early planning stages an I haven't settled on a specific "era" but it would be next up once the Russian Civil War game.

It can be based on a real world situation (Korea, Vietnam, Falklands, Iraq, etc) or totally hypothetical (Cold War gone hot or just totally made up). The goal is something players can get into as far as a story and have some fun with it.

Some criteria to make it workable from an admin perspective;

• Core Force of "company size" maximum for each player.
• Foot/Mechanized bases force, no armor (or at least no heavy armor).
• Location where small maps 30x30, to a 40x40 maximum size would be sufficient for scenarios.

I am also thing about adding a command structure to it so that objectives as well as supply/replacements/reinforcements are handled by a senior commander who may issue a very basic Operations Order to his company commanders (or at least provide me with this information so I can use it for the "briefings"). Another really helpful thing would be for this overall commander to actually "write up" the briefing text file (in a draft format, maybe ) for each of his commanders and provide that to me for finalization and inclusion in the campaign file. :cool:

Of course then the next question is HOW do we work in the overall commander so he gets in on the game too. :up:

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Very good idea to campaign vs IA.
I think the other details and then tell them.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

I think this is the hardest part, making a human have fun while not controlling the grunts.
But how about the name? Russian Civil War:Modern Warfare sounds good for a RCW scen.
Edit: a Korean war:Modern warfare, situation could be awesome, with the human team having as a goal to win before a set date before the war gets nuclear, or something like that, Some Libya war could be very nice aswell, controlling the rebels against Gvt. forces, sorry, brainstorming again, can't keep myself from throwing ideas when they come around...
edit²:how about someone making a cool map? im no artist but may try something...

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

I'm breaking my head thinking .....
Brainstorm ideas:
- build an operational map with hexes and cards
- the cards are our units
- Play at the brigade level. Each player commands a battalion
- The front of the campaign that does not exceed 10 km
- Setting objectives for a brigade. It occurs to me to take or defend a village, bridges, roads .....
Questions:
- How to create the strength of the IA, and ours.
- Who moved the cards at the ia?

The bad thing is that I can not think how to do

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

I actually have a system/format like that set up on paper but using Battalion level with players commanding Companies BUT I would need a Battalion Commander from the players team. Also, to help it from a situation of being me planning the enemy moves and actions against the players (and having access to their plans) I would need someone who is not involved in the actual winSP battles to run the enemy forces as their Commander.

I would also need a situation/theme and forces, etc.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Ok. I understand.
We could simulate a situation border. For example: Italy vs Yugoslavia, North Korea vs South Korea etc.
Creating the fiction. The battalion would be within a brigade, which in the same time would be within a division. I understand that when it comes to operating forces are involved than a brigade or a division.
We created the overall situation and then the task of our battalion.
The front of our battalion should not exceed 5 km (which is a lot I think). Bone that would have maps of 25x25 or 30x30 maximum for each company.
We seek a volunteer to deploy the hypothetical strength of the IA. According as distributed forces is what we will face.
If I have time set up a general map as an example ..

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Count me in as battalion/brigade commander. I don't necessarily have time to play (as in the game itself) but would be happy to write briefings, have an overview of the situation etc. I'm envisioning having an overall map of the 'front', so that I can then base the briefings on players' results? So that if 2 players out of 3 (for example) get a draw or worse, a battalion withdrawal to a defensible point, with maybe the 3rd player (who we'll assume got a win) overwatching the withdrawal of the other 2.

If you're looking at a 'what-if' campaign, we could even base reinforcements on what's actually in the area - so far as we know it. And if Div happen to come up with some goodies to support a sudden breakthrough . . . .

Shan't be available full-time for about a week, but after that retirement kicks in big time:D

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

I've been thinking of using 40x50 maps (there is a reason for this) for the battle maps. That gives good 2.0 by 2.5 kilometer maneuver area and probably good enough for an average company size force.

The "campaign" would probably need to be hypothetical (winSPMBT) to allow for more creativity at the player and GM levels. It also allows for a mixed/multinational force where players can use their favorite national troops against a common enemy (Red, Blue or Green).

I thought about a WII themed game BUT, it would probably have to be hypothetical as well for playability reasons. If we went WWII using a historical content would limit the type (nations) that would be able to be involved. We also then have to decide which side to use for the players. Personally I would like to find a way to use the early eastern front from the Russian side so I can continue with the Commissar concept. :cool:

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

It would be nice to test historic military operations. Osprey books are to guide us in terms of orders of battle etc..
For modern conflict'm thinking of some possibilities. Mainly I'm thinking of border conflicts with limits. Italy and the former Yugoslavia, North Korea vs South Korea.
Viewing maps with small limits can better manage the number of strategic objectives for opreación. Fewer rivers, fewer bridges, fewer roads and fewer troops will be needed.
To think:
1) Think of troop movements on the strategic map. What is mobility etc.
2) Think of the logistics
3) The land is real. Take it out of google map.
4) How to handle the climate issue.
There are aspects that are not as able to handle. For example espionage. So as you can tell from the enemy's movements.
5) How to resolve the disposition of enemy troops? You can foresee a deployment "logical", or you can ask someone to organize an army and depliegue on the strategic map. Our top commander deployed our forces on the strategic map.
The problem would be to deploy forces in the SP map.
Option 1: We know the deployment of enemy forces and thus know what to buy for the IA
Option 2: I dunno lol
I'm going to the pool. Then s

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

One possibility is also preparing an operation between Russia and Chechnya. Could take part as Chechnya. Mainly the fight would be urban, but we can also put some battles in the field. For example to cut Russian supplies.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_procee...CF162.appc.pdf
Suggest that together the stakeholders choose a theater or make suggestions.
We set the map to play.
I also thought the theater of operations of Pakistan vs India, but it seems a much larger front and complicated. Apart lest we copy the plan and assemble a war really.:cold::doh:

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Well, anything chosen would need to be able to generate interest so you have people wanting to participate.

One of the problems with doing something historic is you will likely need to create SP maps from real terrain in the area. This is something that would need to be avoided as you would never get enough people to accurately all the maps you would need.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

So let's do something crazy like Red x Green, this way we won't bother with historical maps.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

I think it is easier to be guided by a real map for the strategic map as we have google maps. The tactical map could approach.
Example: Russia vs Chechnya
Other information
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../chechnya1.htm
See maps:
To the east we have meetings of engagement and delay. In the capital we have defense.
To fight guerrilla warfare forces can command level companies.
In the first Chechen war the Russians had 45,000 troops against Chechen 15000. Without the armored disproportion.
I do not know specifically what size of force used by the Russians in that direction but suppose that is a division with 15000 men, how many tanks and armored vehicles?
We may have 5000 men. Not every fight in every battle since the Chechens avoided large-scale battles. I say this to take account of the forces that will use and see the fix points.
The objective would be to produce as many casualties on the enemy to lower their morale.

It's an idea. Say if you are interested to continue with the details.
I think the situation is raised. But as I have to see the details.
Greetings.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Great ideas guys,

Roman, how about considering a limited border conflict in South America involving sides Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador... a lot of interesting clashes and scenario ideas can be brought up as well.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

I have thought about something like this, using a theme similar to what you see in FPS games like Armed Assault or Operation Flashpoint. A totally fictional operational map and situation. The concept would need to focus more on general key areas as opposed to detailed maps of the whole island/area.

The last thing we want to do is spend 6-12 months hand making the entire area in SP maps before the game could even start and aiming for accurately detailed maps is what you end up doing. In one campaign I ran we spent about 6 months (with multiple map map makers) recreating the Kerch Penninsula in the eastern Crimea in SP maps. IIRC it was 16 maps, each covering 8x5 kilometers based on real topo maps. We were burnt out before we even started the fighting. The scale was probably too large as well. It was an entire German Division against a Soviet brigade. :doh:

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

I think I'd prefer hypothetical, if only so that the accuracy of maps isn't too much of an issue. And if you want it not v tank heavy (think I read this early), you'll want 'interesting' terrain, ie somewhere a grunt can pop out at you & say "Hi dead man!" Which leaves a lot of Russia (except the Caucasus) out of it.

Are we looking modern? If so, I have a couple of suggestions:- Hungary tries to reclaim Transylvania from Romania (oobs available, maps shouldn't be too much problem); Spain retakes Gibraltar, prompting a UK Task Force similar to the Falklands (and who cares about the EU? :); Morocco takes back Ceuta & Melilla from Spain; Al Qaeda capture the Canary Islands - joint UK/Spanish task force to rescue the tourists (on second thoughts, leave them to Al Qaeda:D). All the above can develop (as can a S.American conflict, which I also like the idea of, but not sure how the map situation would work out).

Will go with the flow - make a decision, DD :)

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Now something along those lines sounds like a good idea but we open the field to NATO/EU forces (light forces only, i.e Airborne, Marines, etc). And we could have China and Russia causing problems at the UN preventing the full deployment of Air/Naval forces so the players do not get access to overwhelming types of that support.

Let me bounce around a few things and see if I can work something up. :up:

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

I think there are good ideas. I propose that we submit a list of situations and that we vote for the most interesting and easy to do. This is for us to work all in the settings and details. We can also make a merit list according to the polls.
I think it's this or work alone .... In my case I need help ...

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Going back through this I am more and more leaning towards a NATO vs Warsaw Pact game (circa 1984-87) with the players making up a US Task Force against a large Soviet force. The main reason is that its the era I have the most firsthand knowledge and information with so it will be easier to document and set up.

Under this setup, players would be commanders of the various Company Teams (x4) and probably the Scout Platoon. Then there would be the Battalion (Task Force) Commander who has access to and control over the Battalion level units (mortars, engineers, etc) and all extra support forces that could be called on such as Division Artillery and Air assets.

Oh, and I will need at least 36 40x50 highly unique, pre-made custom maps. :cool:

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

The entire point of the Map Generator and the Extended Map editor is to largely elliminate the need to make them 100% by hand. You should be able to generate all those 40x50 maps that *may* need a bit of hand tweaking in an hour or two.

Don

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Normally I would do that and I am doing it with the current vs AI Campaign however I have some specific designs in mind based on some images I have for use with miniatures tabletop layouts. There are about 100+ of them I would like to pull the 36 maps from and try to get close to them.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Define "highly unique" please..

And do you mean these 36 maps need to be "continuous"?

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

No, they do not need to be continuous. The campaign will use a point to point movement system.

Basically there would be 36 maps that do not need to "fit together". Each should focus on a certain terrain feature. Some would have a river, some a small town or village, some with low rolling hills, maybe one a small open valley flanked by wooded hills, etc.

I will have to test out the map Editor to see what settings will get a good base map and then the roads, railways, buildings, etc could be overlaid to flesh out the map. At the same time some other terrain tweaking could be done to make sure the edges (at least the left and right) offer enough concealment in the 1st 5 hexrows on both edges to give an attacker a place to start off without being in sight at the start.

Below are some samples that would be used as guides.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

To add to my previous post.

The maps should not be anything fancy. No wild terrain design (messing with the hex height in the editor) stuff. Just clean natural looking terrain with room for maneuver and some places to hide evenly spread across the map with a major terrain feature or two, preferably close to the center of the map.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Oh, that's nothing near unique, let alone "highly unique" then.. I'm an urban battle lover and that being said, the stock/plain SP technique of laying down urban terrain is really unsatisfactory to simulate its 3D nature. Hence the use of asterix sign in map editor is really handy.

And that, is not wild I think.

Just my two cents

Zen

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

This thread put in the integrated game. I should have put here. But there is always a solution:


One of the possible battles in Russia vs. Chechnya campaign.
To make this map do not wait too long. I did not want to be a work of art.
This would probably be the first battle of Chechens against Russians. A reinforced company Chechen ambush attempt a Russian column. Russian troops have modern armored but his experience and morality are not so good. The Chechens are tough, experienced and will not invade their territory.
No victory points. The objective of the Chechens is inflicting as much damage to the enemy and then retreat.
I have only one problem with this scenario. As for the Russians to make progress on the road? Should go from east to west. I applied some waypoints but move very little.
I send the files to help me tweak this scenario.
Thanks.

Pd: I send you a map of operations. I had told them that there would be battles in the fields and urban areas. The urban battles would be in the city of Grozny

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

OR

Would you guys be more interested in doing this from the Warsaw Pact perspective? In that version, players would be company level commanders in a Soviet Motorized Rifle Battalion of a reinforced Motorized Rifle Regiment.

At this point, I have the base story fleshed out but need the maps (x36) AND to decide which force will be run by the players.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Not really being following but from warsaw pact side might be a refreshing change.

On maps why not set to max size generate a few & tidy up then if have CD cut & paste into smaller maps. If so wished could be continous areas even doing with overlap of adjacent map if so desired.
Say 5 hex overlap so if maps were 50x50 second would cover from hex row 45 - 95 3rd from 90 - 140
You would get 3x4 =12 maps of that size out of a 160x200 map so need 3 covering diffrent areas with slightly diffrent terrain perhaps for 36 maps.
Take base map generated to produce first map then adjust a few settings for others & generate the next.
Urban field tree & hill height settings come to mind just tweak slightly & generate next map for something similar but say with rolling hills or more trees.
Also yes on right devs comment sometimes maps can be to flat but dont use asterix unless going to change that hex to something else so it stands out like dirt (doesnt work well as single hex) you want a few undulations use high grass so its obvious its not flat terrain.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Yeah, playing from the WP side would be really great, what country would we be playing?

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

It would be the Soviet Union. My stockpile of military documentation is on their TO&E, tactics, etc during the mid 80's so that is what I am most familiar with.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Ok. Then we're going.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Yeah, have been thinking about that. I think that is how I did it when making the maps for another NATO vs WP game I tried a few years ago. Right now I'm playing in the map editor for the right base map code and setting combinations to see if I can get a good mix for cutting and pasting from. I think the river I plan to include is going to need to be hand made though. I need to make sure is not flagged as river so that units don't get rafts, etc automatically. At this point I am thinking 36x 40-50 maps in a staggered 6x6 grid. The north, south and either western/eastern border will a have river so that the campaign map is a sort of bulge where a bridgehead will need to be eliminated or established, depending on whom I deem the attacker in the campaign.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Sorry guys, have been offline for a couple of days, but I see it's gelled nicely. The only thing that strikes me playing the Soviets is that the Battalion Commander will have very little to do except follow his commissar's orders:)

I've never made maps myself (icons are bad enough!), so will go with the flow on that one. But I presume that the BC will have more maps at his disposal than the company commanders, so that he can co-ordinate their actions. Presumably the BC will be responsible for calling artillery, air strikes etc - will this be at his discretion depending on the tactical situation, or does he get what he's given? I presume a lot will be determined by the number of support points everybody gets?

Will probably have more questions as they come up, but really looking forward to this.

Richard H

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

How it will likely work is the BC will get Resource Points each turn based on different things such as captured and held "maps" and MRC commander victories. He will then parcel out those points to his company commander to provide replacements and supplies (build Points) AND to requisition assets from the Regiment to be allocated as one scenario AUX units.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Some more "bones". . .

Each Motorized Rifle Company (MRC) will have an attached Medic and Maintanence section (set up as AUX Units similar to the current Commissar Unit in the Russian Civil War vs AI Campaign). It will be important to keep these units alive as they are key to repair and replacements (in an abstract way). Each of these "units" will be worth 1d10 build Points per scenario/mission BUT with conditions. If the unit survives the Scenario/Mission you get 1d10 Build Points. If the unit survives but Exits the map, you only get 1d6 Build Points. If the unit is Destroyed you get 0 Build Points. This means you can get up to 20 bonus Build Points per Scenario/Mission.

NOTE: These are draft Build Point amounts at this time but that system will be used. This does NOT affect extra Build Points that can be allocated by the Battalion Commander as well as those awarded for obtaining Mission objectives.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Very good point. Ever thought about the medical units. As an aside thought: "It will be implemented in the oob? would be used in campaigns."

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Simply picking a Rifle section and changing it's name in the editor will do, eliminating the need for OOB changes, thus, not messing with anyone's pbem.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

As iCaMpWiThAWP mentioned, I would be selecting a specific unit and renaming one Medic and one Maintanence in the Scenario Editor and setting them as AUX units. Similar to the Commissar. They will NOT be able to perform any special actions but will simulate their contributions to the MRC as Medics and Mechanics (this is abstracted by the bonus Build Points).

They will be AUX units as they would attached to each MRC from the MRB's OOB and so not part of your organic TO&E. At some times during the campaign you may also be allocated the Soviet equivalent of a FSO (Fire Support Officer) and or ALO (Air Liason Officer). These will likely be replicated by the appropriate FO vehicle, also attached from the MRB, or even MRR, depending on the level of support.

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Based on the organization of a Motorized Rifle Battalion we would need 3 Company Commander's and then a Battalion Commander. The BC may of may not be involved in any actual winSPMBT battles, depending how well the front line is maintained by the MRC commanders.

Won't be starting right away as I am still working out the map and operational movement method issues but getting closer. ;)

Re: A More Modern > - Multiplayer "User vs AI" Campaign
 

Tentative Motorized Rifle Company's (1010 points) will be comprised of the following;