The best PD ?
 

I was thinking about this topic yesterday - we all know that monkey nations, Fomoria, Caelum, Machaka are locked in a bitter struggle to determine just who has the worst. PD. Ever. I'm fairly convinced Machaka doesn't even need an actual enemy for its PD to kill itself and rout.

But what of the other end of the spectrum ? Which nation(s) would you say has the best, most effective PD ?

I know Ermor's is pretty nice (tower shields, javelins, decent armour, a mage that can paralyze), Abysia as well particularly in the EA where the lack of humanbreds forces the PD to be all heat-aura Abysians plus a fireball chucker in the back. Gath has decent light infantry, plus sacreds over 20 points. Who else is in the running ?

Re: The best PD ?
 

I'd add the various Jotunheim nations to the worst PD contest.

Mictlan gets a split role. Below 20 it's horrendous, mostly because the Tribal King will charge forward to throw his javelin and get killed while all the slingers stay back. Above 20 it gets slingers, Jaguar Warriors and a Priest to bless them.

Re: The best PD ?
 

They were going to make the cut, but then I remembered Fomoria's which is worse in every possible way.
Jotun's giant militia is bad and easily ganged up on but at least they have some basic gear. Fomorian militia are naked giants with horribly poor stats to begin with, but also riddled with afflictions before the battle even starts. And they're backed by slingers to boot, which are useless at damaging actual troops, but perfect to wound the militia some more. Watching them fight is like a bad comedy routine.

Re: The best PD ?
 

Suaromatia and LA TC have very solid PD with a mix of good archers and heavy cavalry. EA Aby is good, but since each point of PD gets you a single guy they really only shine one you get critical mass putting them not that far ahead (IMO) of nations who's PD really rocks at 20+ (ie. Mictlan). EA Aby PD of 10 is fairly meh.

I know its standard routine to bash monkey PD, but I find they work pretty decently in some conditions because of their large numbers, good defense, and lots of projectiles. Likewise, Caelum can be effective under some conditions because they fly forward to attack turn one. Neither of these are nearly as awful as Fomoria (my personal pick for worst PD) or Machaka.

Re: The best PD ?
 

Best PD?

The standard answer would be "depends on the circumstances". There are some PD that suck without mage or priest backup due to having low morale or subaverage equipment trying, but failing, to compensate with numbers that turn moderately awesome with just a bit of backup to keep them in the fight or buff them.

LA's Bogarus' PD, the scum of the scum, is an example of this. There are just so many members of the PD (IIRC you get 3 medium infantry, 1 heavy infantry, and 1 archer in total per point over 20) and Bogarus strength lies in its exceptional mages, so you can perform amazing PD+mage defences if you have the money to plop down in a strategic location... but at the same time it is poor everywhere else and the low morale archers break for a bad word, so...

If looking at PD without any sort of backup and PD that is both nice before and after 20 is reached, then the heavily armoured human nations are probably the "best". Nations such as Ermor, Man, and T'ien Ch'i.

Re: The best PD ?
 

Is there any list of updated PDs for all nations?

Re: The best PD ?
 

MA Ulm have very strong PD

Re: The best PD ?
 

[I know I'm a newb and haven't got a clue...]
I have been EA C'tis. My PD is full of lizard militia. The problem is, they seem to be so scared that they always rout, usually before they even contact the enemy, or at best after one round, so I never get anything out of them.

Re: The best PD ?
 

Man's PD is actually remarkably bad. It doesn't help that its PD is almost entirely units that aren't part of its national unit roster. (Seriously, slingers? Wtf...)

Monkey PD, otoh, isn't actually that bad. It just needs some loving from a mage.

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My vote is for Mictlan once you pass 20. Jag warriors above 20 is just amazing.

Otherwise, i seem to recall Hinnom has pretty awesome PD. They might wrap up the below 20 competition.

Re: The best PD ?
 

EA Abysia has exceptional PD. Though the complete lack of missile troops proves a critical weakness as the game progresses.

As for monkey PD, even unsupported it can be useful against the right opponent. I saw it rapidly dismantle 8 earth elementals with surprisingly few losses.

Re: The best PD ?
 

LA TC for vanilla. CBM the new machaka is quite good.

Re: The best PD ?
 

What's interesting is that some of them can situationally good.
Caelum may have lousy PD in most situations, but against self-buffing raiders fliers are devastating. Pan is the same way, though they're better overall.

Monkey PD isn't usually good, but the sheer volume of ranged attacks do pretty well against barbarian attacks, and that's really what PD is for, right?
(That and I had 1PD lame an Ember Lord recently. That Atevi Chieftain was awarded the Iron Banana. Posthumously, of course.)

Re: The best PD ?
 

This is the key really. While I broadly agree with most candidates mentioned in the thread, both good and bad, it really depends on what they're asked to do. In my last game as Marverni for example I had been using (pairs of) teleporting druids as well as some lesser horrors to quickly take large numbers of provinces, (against Kailasa/Lanka, Abysia, Fomoria and Ulm, so quite a bit of variety there) but that tactic imploded spectacularly against 1 PD from Vanheim. Now, I wouldn't call Van's PD exceptional in most situations, but the 1A mage was just enough to lightning bolt the horrors to death, while against the druids he kept summoning phantasmal warriors, which were then targetted by the druids (Gifts of Heaven or Bladewind) until the druids passed out and were skewered. (Intrestingly enough, if Vanheim had upped his PD to 10 or so, the same pairs of druids would probably have routed them without too much effort.)

Re: The best PD ?
 

Id say the best PD belong to either EA Hinnom or LA T'ien Ch'i. Hinnom get a surprising number of their mid-range avim giants. Not milita. And TC gets one blocker, two composite bows and one lance strike per point before 20. They get an additional lance strike and bow after 20.

Pyth/ermor used to have awesome PD. But their PD was nerfed in a patch and they got a slinger instead of a tower shield. So now it is merely good.

Re: The best PD ?
 

My impression on the Hinnom PD was not that great - they are just too few,the spearmen don't deal decent damage, and the Kohen they get at PD20 is only useful as high-HP target.

Re: The best PD ?
 

OTOH I got a quick education on just how crap monkey PD can be some while ago when a raiding group made up of ~30 Yomi archer goblins took out the 25 points of PD at my capital without breaking a sweat, however. No mage or priest support, no fancy thug or shifty placement tricks required. Didn't see that one coming.

Then again, earlier in that game EA Agartha's capital had been taken out and besieged right out of the game by a militia attack random event of all things, so I guess it could have been worse :).

Re: The best PD ?
 

Fata Morgana seems to make for some nice PD to me, though my experience is very limited. 30 Phantasmal Warriors may be very short-lived chaff, but since they're Phantasmal Warriors they contribute virtually nothing to the "75% HP lost = auto-route" mechanic.

Re: The best PD ?
 

Machaka easily has the worst. The low morale, naked and a single spear would have them lose against the other province defenses. I've been praying the Early Age Machaka would have been finished by Illwinter and glorious, yet it remains a myth in the map edit PDF... never to arrive.

Re: The best PD ?
 

LA Atlantis has really nice PD actually. Harpooners and ice lancers, even better now with the freeze effect in cbm 1.84. Incoming thugs get netted and then fatigued by the freeze, plus they're magic weapons in case he's ethereal.

The uw PD is not as good though, but has poison barbs and coral spears for certain situations.

Re: The best PD ?
 

EA Arcocephale is surprisingly good. The Slingers are useless, but everything they need to do is handled by javelins, and the Cardace is a solid defensive unit, mostly because of repel. It gets better over 20, as the Icarid is effective at preventing flying self buffing raiders, as well as hurting enemy archers.

Re: The best PD ?
 

Conditionally, Fomoria PD are not THAT horrible-at least compare with jotun or monkey pd, they have advantage in number, if buffed with fog warrior or other spells, tons of 30+HP militia can be really good chaffs.

The best PD in cbm? agartha, without explanation :D

Re: The best PD ?
 

I have once routed a fairly large Fomorian PD with 4 common longdead. They are like comic relief characters of Dom3.

Marignon PD is quite nice, with all those crossbows.

Re: The best PD ?
 

LA Ermor has a good PD. Unbreakable, with longdead horsemen if you pay enough.
Of course, LA Ermor doesnt have much gold to buy it most of the time. But I dont understand how is LA Ermor buying PD in the first place; it's not like they can recruit some dead people by paying them gold (that's Nehekhara). Dead people join them for free - but that's freespawn, not PD.

Re: The best PD ?
 

I'd say monkey PD is better than Jotun PD. The high HP doesn't count for jack when they can't hit anything, and it's not like they can swarm the attacker. At least the monkeys can throw a few rocks and arrows...

Hinnom used to be scary until the nerf. EA Abysian probably has the best PD. They have no archers, which is good, since thay can be drawn away with cheap decoys. Very strong units, with high protection for EA, and on top of all a heat aura on all troops, meaning any thug raiding has to be fire resistant, if they can take the PD at all as I've seen numerous thugs, Bane lords and Sleepers, get killed by Abysian PD.

Now, if mod nations count, I'd say Hellgate(Amos) has the most ridiculous PD. :P

Re: The best PD ?
 

I quite like the Pangaea PD. Not necessarily alone, but it is IMO one of the best PD's (not quite up there with Sauromatia or LA Tien Chi PD's, but not that far behind) to support an army.

Harpies to crash into the enemy on round one. If it is a lonely thug, the harpies get a chance to kill off the thug before he can buff up. Nothing is more fun than to see enemy mages/ranged units unleash hell on the harpies -> it always gives me a warm feeling inside to see all the collateral damage it causes. The PD harpies provide excellent distraction so that Revelers, Centaurs and Minotaurs from the army (or PD) get a free run to the enemy.

Centaur Archers provide quite the sniper power with their longbows and high precission. Round after round after round they provide deadly accurate barrages, firing from behind the berserkers at front.

The satyrs are a bit meh, but if the PD is supporting an army the PD automatically moves to the flanks. Not only that, but the Pans actually have time to buff the satyrs before they get into melee. Oh, and they have javelins they can chuck over the heads of the berserkers.


Now, if the intention was which PD alone, under PD strength 20, is great, then I wouldn't place Pangaean PD very high. But if the PD is strong enough, they provide quite amazing support for an army.

Re: The best PD ?
 

The money isn't to buy the undead - it's to pay for the corral to keep them all in one place instead of shuffling off in random directions absent supervision :D

Re: The best PD ?
 

Even the undead like to go to the arcades to play Space Invaders, thats where the PD gold goes. Can you imagine an arcade machine where the joystick is a bone and its played by a skeleton?

I'd agree with EA Abysia being possibly the best. Very tough armor, especially for EA, and the heat aura. If your fighting in your own dominion the aura stacks on the 2-3 Heat easily making EA Abysia the best PD in the 1-20 range, for its versatility and size of bog standard armies it can stop or maim.