Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

This is a re-conceptualizing of nation MA Ulm. The motivations and concept behind the mod can be found here: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...?showtopic=399

This mod is primarily intended for use with CBM. A .dm file is included which contains all of CBM 1.84 (except as altered by the mod) and all of Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b. This does overwrite Ulm: Forges of Ulm in MA.

There is also a separate .dm file for anyone who wishes to run this in vanilla. The only differences from CBM are the armor rebalancing. Everything else has been incorporated directly into the mod, including heroes from WH 1.9.

New .dm file included: MC version of Ulm Black Rose. This should basically be a total copy of Ulm with the modifications, so you can play vanilla Ulm and Black Rose Ulm in the same game. Not sure why you'd want to... The purpose of this .dm is to provide a Mod Compatible version of the mod (see the Mod Compatibility Project), for which it couldn't overwrite a vanilla nation, even if it is intended to.

If you want a quick glance at all the new units, there is a commented out 'test' section at the bottom of the non-CBM .dm. Just replace -- with # in front of all the relevant commands to make all the units recruitable in your forts. (Do note that without CBM armors may behave differently).

All the new national spells are in Alteration, Construction, or Enchantment.

NOTE: The Inner Circle of the Black Rose pretender is the only way to get access to Agents of the Black Rose and Fanatics of the Black Rose. These become spies and assassins respectively when the Ordain Covert Operative ritual is cast on them. Recommend taking Dom10 with this pretender if you want to try it out.

This is a beta.
--A few units are still using placeholder graphics: Inner Circle of the Black Rose pretender.
--There are some things i'm intending to implement but haven't done yet, including 3 more nation specific pretenders and possibly 1 more national spell.
--All stats, spell research requirements, and gem costs are variously tentative. Comments welcome.

Sprite previews attached below as well as a .rar with a graphics folder, a stand alone .dm, and a combined mod+CBM 1.84 .dm. Do note only Ulm: Order of the Black Rose sprites are included, so if you don't have CBM you will need to download the regular CBM mod to get its image files. Sprite preview does not include a few sprites. When i've finished tinkering with pretenders i'll create a final sprite preview.

Modding is of course impossible without some help. The following people deserve some thanks:
QM - creating and maintaining CBM
Llamabeast - writing and beautifully commenting the Drain spell which i've incorporated into the mod proper.
Sombre - a font of knowledge when it comes to all things mod-related
Iainuki - feedback on alpha version of mod
Burnsaber - maintaining Worthy Heroes, whose heroes have been incorporated into the mod directly.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.25b
 

Fixed a goof whereby I switched the #effect for commander and troop summons. I should really know better than that... Hotfixed, but I forgot to increment version number, sorry. Do redownload.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.25b
 

Perhaps this is a bad idea, perhaps this is the product of some fever dream, or perhaps this is just destined for awesome.

I present my blueprints/concept design for the Ulmish Flying Machine. Based on nothing but concepts available to early renaissance Europe or earlier (specifically, the idea to use the 'air drill' for a flying machine dates to Leonardo DaVinci - its use in a child's toy is older, and that's the most recent technology involved), the Ulmish Flying Machine will give Ulm the ability to carry small groups of specially trained soldiers behind enemy lines.

It was long thought that the air guild of master smiths was touched. In the head. They kept babbling about man-powered flight, which never took off. They insisted they could get a man into the air solely on the basis of reason and science. The Ulmish Flying Machine is the final vindication of their efforts, and the first one that's actually worked.

Made possible by the relative lightness and superlative strength of blacksteel, plus the forging and welding skills of the Ulmish Master Smiths, the Ulmish Flying Machine powers a starched canvas air-drill on a lightweight hollow-tube blacksteel frame with an aeolipile fixed on a vertical axis and supplied by steam from a boiler below. The machine has a limited flight range, and cannot refuel in flight even if it did carry more water. In addition, the boiler must be allowed to cool before more water can be added, so significant downtime is required between flights. The crew of two is clad in blacksteel so that the machine can otherwise carry little armor.

The pilot sits in front and controls direction by manipulating sails to the sides (not shown at present). He also controls the machine's offensive weapon, a pair of tubes running off the top of the boiler that fill with superheated steam and can be opened to release that steam in an AoE centered in front of the machine.

The second crew member is an engineer who sits in the back. He controls forward thrust (via a pipe of superheated steam that can be opened to propel the machine forward), and watches the water level in the boiler. He and the pilot can communicate by means of a line about two pulleys to which they attach color-coded pieces of cloth, although the engineer can carefully make his way around the machine to speak with the pilot when necessary. In battle the engineer frequently just watches for waved colored cloth instead of using the line.

The platform can hold up to 15 (should be 10, but #poorleader is the closest i can get) additional soldiers sitting with legs over its edge and drop them into the battlefield. Only carefully trained soldiers are used in this fashion. (New unit, to be summoned with the flying machine)

Ulmish flying machines are neither especially safe nor reliable, and have been known to explode, especially after taking exceptional damage as the boiler can rupture.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.26b
 

New version released.

Sprites:
Martyred Lord of the Black Rose
Priest of the Black Rose
Master of the Black Rose

Fixed a typo which prevented new commander of ulm descriptions from displaying.

Cost rebalancing for spell Whispers from the Black Rose.

Ok, all content except pretender-related stuff is now included. (And potentially the Ulmish Flying Machine, if I actually decide its a good idea...)
To Do List:
-Sprite for Inner Circle of the Black Rose pretender
-Additional national pretenders (up to 3 theoretically planned)

Feel free to leave feedback in this thread or the one on Dom3mods regarding balance, spritework, content, theme, etc...

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.26b
 

Thanks, some interesting ideas, even though I'm not sure about some parts of the basic writeup. And of CBM, of course.
About The Flying Machine - looks great, I think it should be implemented. Some questions, though: is it commander or did you find a way to make a non-commander transport unit in Dominions??? Did you think about muscle-driven design (maybe together with steam-driven higher up research ladder)?

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.26b
 

Its a commander in theory. I was going to have it be summoned with 5 flying units that it could command (who ideally will be the only flying units you ever have as Ulm if you're playing in theme...)

I'm pretty sure there's no way to make a non-commander transport unit.

The problem with muscle-driven design is it just doesn't work. Getting into the air on muscle power, especially at early renaissance technology levels, is simply impossible. People can't generate enough thrust. So you need an engine or magic. As outright magic is worse than mundane means, because this is Ulm, we want an engine. Fortunately, there is a steam engine which is of sufficient antiquity to be serviceable.

I'm pretty sure i could get a scale model air drill + aeolipile to go airborn. In reality. Building a lifesize one would require more engineering know-how than i have, and may or may not be possible depending on material limitations - the major constraint is probably how you engineer the spiral 'sail'. Fortunately, Ulm has blacksteel, which is steel + awesome, and something mildly fantastic working is fine in a world where everyone else just casts 'flight'.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.26b
 

I like the idea of the flying machine. Things like this are tricky to implement though. I had a very difficult time giving draconians air ships in a mod I am working on. Even now, it hasn't worked out the way I like.

I'll keep an eye on how you do it, maybe you can find a better way to implement it.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.27b
 

Minor version release
Version .27b
-Fixed Martyred Lord base enc.
-Added WH heroes for MA Ulm directly to the mod
-New .dm file for the Mod Compatibility project. Currently fails to work because of #badstartsite error, but the other .dm files still work fine. Really not sure what's up with it. Anyone help debug this?
-Gave them a multihero - the Knight of the Black Rose summon

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.27b
 

The Keep of Ulm needs a level so it can display a graphic. The rarity is not set either.

Goodluck!

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.27b
 

Version 0.28b released
-Bugfix: Lord of the Black Rose and Lady of the Black Rose ages are now as intended.
-Bugfix: Priest of the Black Rose no longer wears Black Steel armor. (Had to give him something to overwrite it, so he has a crown and robes).
-Bugfix: MC version of the mod now works
-Rebalance/Bugfix: Priest and Master of the Black Rose are no longer quite so old when summoned.
-New Descriptions: Black Acolyte, Black Priest, Priest Smith.

To Do list:
-Get balance feedback
-Write a new description for the Master Smith (he probably needs it)
-Finish Inner Circle pretender sprite. (i have a rough version, needs substantial work)
-+3 pretenders

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

Making a host of flying units is problematic, as there is no reason for the player to keep them with the machine.

Dunno if it's possible, but if you could duplicate the flying carpets effect somehow it would be perfect for the flying machine. Something like the underwater commanders that can bring troops under seas, but with flying instead.

Can you make commander summons with preset items? In that case you could make a cursed copy of the flying carpet and call it something appripriate, then make the machine equip it by default.

An alternative to steam engine would be a spring driven mechanism that is painstakingly wound up after each flight, there is flying toys that work this way. Also thematically in line for example with clockwork horrors which are already in the game.

Alternately, make it a remote attack spell. Where the flying machine is a "single use" contraption that only takes part in one battle (disappears after battle like gladiators), but brings along a small unit of elite troops led by a engineer (a special commander with A1 perhaps?). I kinda like the idea of Ulm having a remote attack spell in the construction school.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

Ulm Black Rose is being added to the Mod Compatibility project. This required a little tinkering with the MC .dm file (which is now v0.281b). Nothing else has notably changed, but anyone interested in the MC project version will want to redownload to get the new .dm file.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

I am awesome, and forgot to include sprites the last time I uploaded. Also forgot to specify pretenders for the MC version. Fixed.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

Squirrelloids 'MC version' is not actually MC Compatible. Sombre is working on a real MC version of it here. It should be up sooner than later.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

In my defense, svarogia wasn't part of the MC project when i submitted my version for approval =P

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

Some random impression:

A full scale build can work, although Ulm still can benefit much from Nature.
Ulm is guaranteed Death Access at Construction 6. Also, this death access has a forge bonus of 35, gets occasional Nature picks and autocasts Gaias Bless (resistance to all elements) in battle. The spell you are looking for is icon of the forge. Since they can forge Fire Skulls very cheaply, they get you into Fire.
Ulm gets 2 special summonable commanders that cast relief or mass luck respecitivly. These are incredibly powerfull together with an army.
Ulm can summon Black Guard equivalents for 1 Earth Gem each. To do so is quite economical in terms of Mage time. Any Priest Smith, or Black Smith with Earth Boots can do so.

Enchantment gets Ulmish Black Rose Priest, that autocast fury. Unfortunatly, it means that your mages may also run up to the enemy, so it is a bit of a niche use.
There is also the radiant standart, a tough fighter auto casting Solar Brilliance. Those 2 should perhaps not be used with a large army, but rather be seen as an IED device.
Enchantment also has the possibility to recruit Slayers. Slayers are Black Guard but have Flambeus instead of Black halbers, and have Morale 30.
To cast this spell, a Priest Smith or a Black priest with an F random is needed.
The last of Ulms special troop summons is perhaps the most powerfull, but costs S gems which Ulm will likely use for other things.

I can only recommend trying Black Rose Ulms special pretender, as long as you dont take him imprisoned, you will soon have more spies than you can use, as well as a cadre of assassins. Those assasins are sacred, autobless themselfs and carry one handed hero blades, making them quite good for assasinating giant nations, or everyone on a horse.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

Hi, i found a bug with Barthulf hero, i am also using cmb 1.92 Look at his equipment, he uses all his weapons, 6 atacks.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...0&d=1318280194

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

That has to be a CBM/WH issue, because its using the existing Ulm heroes.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

Seriously? Two Morning Stars? This is your idea of balance?

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

Its the bug with CBM again which doubles weapons. redownload CBM. an older version gave double weapons.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

thx, fixed.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

If you're trying to use another CBM version, please don't use the version that bundles CBM 1.84 with MA Ulm. I might recommend the MC version (which is linked from teh dom3mods thread). I will get around to updating this threads dls at some point... promise.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.28b
 

Version 0.30b released

-Tweaked PD to make it a little weaker.
-Stopped CBM 1.9x MA Ulm encumbrance change from being grandfathered in.
-I think I fixed the duplicate weapons on the heroes bug.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Hoi Squirrel,

some further feedback:
-The various Black Lords can make capable antithugs with minimal equipment, although kitted harbingers are a bit too much, which imho is fine, being quite able to punk a Bane with Fire Brand/Awe shield yes, punking a 60ish gem harbinger thats fully kitted no. Use Iron Angels or special troops for the big guys.
-Unmakers are very powerfull if combined with an Icon of the Forge, Etheral and elemental immunity is nothing to sneeze at. However, 15ish unmakers with one Super smith cost 30 Earth and 45 Astral, so they better pack some punch. One can counter unmakers with Skellispam (they rack up fatigue quite quickly), some elemental resistance ignoring evocation and stellar cascades, one can also avoid them.
-Forging of unmaking is perhaps too strong for alteration 6, even though it needs alteration 6 and construction 6 and a summon in practice. I have won several battles against Pythium with grossly one sided results (the kind you would expect from SP) due to it, although it may be wad that the Super Smith did more damage/prevented more damage in these battles than a SC would have done.
Without armour, pretty much anything in Ulms arsenal will one shot human enemies.

While Mist Warriors, Army of Gold, Mass Protection and Army of Lead can to an extant counter the spell, everyone who does not have this is quite strongly messed up.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

15s for 5 troops is quite a lot. You expect high performance from that kind of investment. And there's still plenty of options in the spell arsenal that splat them, even with elemental immunity.

Think of them like super mechanical men. They come one level earlier (but as you pointed out, construction 6 is basically required to summon them) and cost twice as much in raw gem cost, and its S instead of E so its more like 4x as much. Oh yeah, and they have fatigue as a disadvantage relative to mechanical men.

I don't think anyone thinks mechanical men are overpowering... i certainly hope no one does.

Might I suggest that anyone who's still using regular troops by the time Ulm gets to Alt 6 Const 6 is *doing it wrong* and deserves to get steamrolled?

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Let me preface all this with the admission that I am a noob, especially once the game shifts more to a gem economy and less from a gold economy. Part of the point of the game Mightypeon is playing is to test Squirrelloid's Ulm mod. As such in the following paragraphs it is important to attempt to distinguish between me playing poorly and Black Rose Ulm being too strong or weak.


I'm the Pythium player who was doing it wrong and being steamrolled. I found BR Ulm to be an implacable opponent who beat me in every major engagement. This is at least partly due to Mightypeon being a clever player who rarely engaged my main forces without softening them up first with anti-communion earthquakes, assassination attempts or other shenanigans. However, another part to it was my inability to find a way to blunt the main BR Ulm advance.

The standard BR Ulm grunt has a base MR of 14 and an armor value that starts at 17. There are spells (global legions of steel, various anti-magic effects, etc.) and higher caliber recruitables (blacksteel infantry vs. baseline) who move those numbers up from there. Furthermore, with the right summoned commanders on the field, all of Ulm's army was enjoying +50% elemental resistance and the reinvigorating effect of the Relief spell. When facing an army of MR 19+, Prot 20+, 50% resistances, reinvigorating, better-stats-than-average troops, I found it really hard to find a good counter. Evocation spam? No. Fatigue? Not really. Stalling spells? Astral save-or-die spells? MR and Moral all too high for those kinds of things. Then you add in BR Ulm's various mage artillery platforms (spamming iron darts/blizzard, magma spells of various sizes, bladewinds, etc.) and you have a force which I, at least, couldn't find a way to meaningfully forestall. While I would almost certainly have lost our engagements after a bloody and protracted battle, having all of my armor preemptively ruined turned the battle from "slugfest" to "slaughter".

Before the war, Ulm and I were about equal in terms of research, gem income, gold income and so on. The war was mine to win, or lose, from the very beginning. My primary tactics were to have a wall of principes acting as a barrier between Ulm's army and my communion. Said communion would lay down some battlefield altering spells and then commence evocation spamming of one variety or another. While the particulars of each battle were unique, the main difference for Pythium was in mage scripting, not in force composition. The war raged on long enough for me to try lightning, cold and astral spams alone and in groups against the forces of Ulm, with and without spam critters (phantasms, false horrors, elementals), with and without battlefield enchantments (quagmire, wind guide, mist, storm, etc.), and never did it really help. I tried massed assassinations, seeking arrows and mind hunts, all to very limited success.

I summoned and equipped a bunch of harbringers and they proved very effective at raiding around Ulm's armies but never effective at facing the army itself. Eventually Ulm was able to cheaply field a number of counters (mainly anti-magic being black lords with lycanthrope amulets) forcing me to further constrain my harbringer forces. Between Ulm's cheaply summoned, magically armed troops and their evocation spam, mistform and body ethereal proved ineffective as buffs for troops or commanders. I didn't really see any good mass-summonable troops that could have faced up to Ulm, though that is almost certainly because of my lack of skill rather than a lack of options.

I would really appreciate some feedback here on where I went about this the wrong way, as well as whether BR Ulm is such that is is imbalanced, at least when facing a nation like MA Pythium. Aside from being helpful to me as a player, it would be revealing for this game to show whether and to what extant Squirrelloid's Ulm mod needs to be tweaked.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

I this war, I also a significant number of spies operating in Pythium which were busily reducing income in a decentralized manner.

A fairly important part in all this was my cunning trick with secretly allying with Mictlan(who you were conquering), while preparing a gigantic trap at mictlans Capital. Given that I moved on Mictlan after you asked me to do, while actually being in collusion with them, I managed to inflict a very severe first strike with that Earth Quake attack. If Mictlan wouldnt have been sleeping, it would have wiped out most of your standing army in the inital turns of war.
This did allow me to seize the initiave, and rapidly conquer former Mictlan (with some help from Mictlan itself, although I could argue that they were more of a hindrance, As Napoleon said, fighting a coalition is often easier than being in one). You had to recruit new troops and rush those to the front, which preempted any coordinated action against my Spy Corp. In the opening moves, I seized a significant advantadge in money income which became greater as overtaxing and induce unrest succesfully destroyed Pythiums economic basis.
The whole build up to the war as quite important as I could, and did, plan my force composition about 3 to 5 turns in advance, I later discovered that getting armies in place while being raided by harbingers is quite difficult. Ulm can only recruit its troops in its own castles (as you need high scales and your own dominion for castles to be productive), and they are still Map move one for the most part, although I was makig large use of knights and Sappers for strategic mobility.
I was quite amazed at how shockingly effective Ulms troops are when fighting Pythium too. In the early turns of the war, I had Pythiums mainly mage less army, with still 300ish Principes, encircled in Mictlan. Since Sallying forth happens last, I was moving my surrounding armies into Mictlan in order to prevent Pythium from getting away.
To my suprise (my goal was to stop them from moving), my 80ish black plates with I think 12 Mages totally and utterly murdered the principes suffering only very slight casulties, and, despite having no gems left, inflicted severe casulties on Mictlans sallying army too.
In this battle, I was using the MR and the Armour buff, further increasign S with strength of giants and otherwise relyign on destruction and Iron Blizzard. I had nearly no casulties from Principes, and these not exactly bad troops more or less melted upon impact.
Basically, if you use destruction in tandem with Flail troops that have strength of giants on them, everything with destroyed armour instantly dies upon getting in combat.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Again, some, if not much, of your success is because of your forethought, diplomacy and cunning. That is undeniable and laudable; cheers to a superior opponent and his well earned victory! But the reason this conversation is relevant to this thread is whether or not the rest of your success was because Black Rose Ulm is, or is not, too strong. During our conflict I was utterly unable to find anything to face you with in the field. Sure I was able to make life a bit more difficult for you logistically, and I like to think the mind hunts and scores of seeking arrows hurt at least a little, but the fact remains that I was never able to muster an army which could ever do meaningful damage to your troops in the field when they were adequately supported by your battlefield-boosting commanders. Regardless of scripting, regardless of placement... defeat.

Yes, superior Ulmish troops with adequate magic support will make an almost unlimited number of principes vanish into a fine red mist. That isn't a point under contention, nor even the larger point of this discussion. What could I have done to actually have faced off against your forces? If the answer to that is "not much" or "not much without first researching [high level stuff here]" then we should take this as a sign that Black Rose Ulm is imbalanced. If the answer is instead "oh, just spam [reasonable research goal here]", "fight around my main army with [reasonably cost-equivalent army and/or summons] until my economy collapses", or something similar then we can see that my defeat is due to my own shortcomings and not because of anything wrong with Squirrelloid's mod.

So, again, what could I have done to actually blunted your invasion? Where our roles reversed, what would you, MightyPeon, have done as Pythium facing the steel avalanche of Black Rose Ulm?

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

I think it is also possible to defend Communions (at least the communicants) against Earth Quakes with a crystal matrix and a high id master casting a fist turn mistform.
During the confrontation over Mictlan, I would have placed a signficant force in a reserve in a place where they could not be simply sieged.
You would have actually hurt me severly without the thunder bow bug issue, your assasins "actually" killed the relief guy, and that would have made f.e. stellar cascades quite usefull. It would have also screwed up my own advances rather severly by killing commanders that were leading troops.
The fact that my "cunning and unexpected" plan worked (earthquake suprise attack) while your equally "cunning and unexpected" plan (assassins with Thunder Bows, I did not expect that at all) did not for absolutly no fault of your own was huge.
Without thunderbows, your assasins were very managable with bodyguards. If they had the thunderbows, I propably would have needed to patrol while moving, which would have given you time to reorganise, research and root out my own spies.

It was in the beginning an open matchup, until you were hit by the bug (which invalidated at least 30 A gems, quite significant by turn 30ish), subsequently lost battles because my commanders didnt get killed (somethign you propably and with good reason planned to have happening), this meant that the outcome was much close to my initial plan than to yours, and, as Clausewitz states, friction increases the faster the more you already have of it.
If you had a communion with some protection for earthquakes, my own 30ish E gems burned on the suicde attack would have been largely wasted, and the early monomentum could have been in your favor.
I didnt have to reconsider my own plans until Harbingers.
As a note, I was attacking with Alt 6, Evo 6, Enchantment 3, Conjuration 3, Construction 6, Thau 2, and had been in a number of early wars. Given that Pythium does have better research, Having Conjuration 6 for Harbingers (they are 6 right?), Construction 4 for gear and Evo/Alt whatever 6 for battle magic should have not been impossible. I think you made a "mistake" in sending too many mages after Mictlan, it was overkill against them, but also put a lot of your assets in on place where I could very efficently attack them and also reduced your research.


Hindsight is of course 20/20...

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

The following things stand out to me:
(1) You were even in research with Ulm. As pythium. You should have been *leaps and bounds* ahead of him in research. You should have been matching his Alt6/Const6 with Alt 9, artifacts, and high conjuration or evocation. Pythium has no excuse for being only tied with Ulm in research.

(2) Fatigue spam definitely works. Specifically the 'no MR' kind. Thunderstrike is pretty good (<100 SR is not enough). But Solar Cascades is the real star here, and *every single pythium mage worth a damn* can cast it without communioning.

(3) Losing your armor? Marble Warriors/Army of Gold/Army of Lead is the best response. And you should have the research advantage to pull this off. If you're still relying on regular troops by the time Ulm has multiple 6 level research, you absolutely need at least one of these spells in every fight. Being able to drop AoG/L round 1 can also pre-empt earthquake to a large degree.

(4) Fog Warriors. Every fight.

(5) Mist of Deception could also be a pretty disruptive spell.

(6) Summons to use:
-Manifest Vitriol (can you tell I love alteration yet?)
-undead like Wights can work (admittedly not so much for pythium). Anything less than 100CR is going to fatigue out, and wights are pretty solid infantry otherwise.
-Mechanical Men or Living Statues make for a resilient frontline that isn't especially vulnerable to armor destruction.
-Thugs with good defense, good magic armor, and AoE weapons.

(7) Other spells of note:
-Acid spells are relatively accessible to Pythium, and ignores all elemental resistances, and damages armor!
-Your armor getting destroyed? Return the favor! Destruction isn't full battlefield, but its still brutal.
-Magma Eruption is only half fire. The other half doesn't care about elemental resistances.
-Ice Strike is *not* cold damage, and with high W level (you are communioning right?) it has a decent AoE.

(8) Communions!
-Use master matrices to start your master(s) communioned. They can spend their first turn casting a defensive spell, which will apply to all the communion slaves that cast before it gets to him. This can help with earthquake survival. (If you drop Twist Fate on all your mages turn 1 via communion, that earthquake isn't going to do much).
-Use communions to boost variable AoE spells into uber territory.
-Even spamming something simple like Enslave Mind or Soul Slay will overcome Ulmish MR, however slowly.

(9) Don't limit yourself to fighting during the battle phase
-Combats in the magic phase can prompt gem use, exhausting key mage's supplies before the main engagement
-Flames from the Sky / Fires from Afar / Seeking Arrow / Murdering Winter can potentially take out key leaders or wreck army formations. Fires from Afar is a 25+ damage ap fire attack that will hit without the benefit of those pesky OBSes - if it hits a mage the mage is toast, and even Ulm's troops are going to risk death from a hit.

(10) Ranged weapons
-Xbows, commanders with bows or xbows, or otherwise apply range pain. The non-tower shield infantry are vulnerable to missile fire.
-Fire Arrows

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

I don't think this is really realistic. Never mind the "only kill one dude each time" aspect, which kinda matters when their dudes kill dozens of yours at a time with Iron Darts/Blizzard ; but the baseline ulmish dude has MR12 (meaning you're already going to fail 1 times out of 2), and in any big battle it's a given that Ulm will use their battlefield-wide MR boost on top of that. It's not even that hard to research. That's 18 baseline, 19 in dominion. Yeah, you go ahead and Enslave Mind, dude, I'm sure those 3% chance to turn a single guy are going to turn the battle right around.
MR resist spells are just wasted on Rose Ulm, period. Spamming and hoping it sticks works statistically on lone SCs, but it's preposterous to suggest them as a workable solution on armies of 100+ guys at once.

That would be one point where I reckon the mod is a bit OP, TBH. Either give them high nat MR, or give them easy ways to boost normal MR, but compounding the two just shuts down like 80% of offensive sorcery magic.

Also, I find that whole "well, if they're at research level 6 you should have more than that/fight them with tons of high level summons" bit of yours just silly.
Either their level 6 spells are balanced with other level 6 spells, or they're unbalanced. Either their level 3 spells are in line with other level 3 spells, or they're unbalanced. You don't get to make a pair of level 3 spells as good and easier to cast as a level 8 one with the rationale that "no but it's OK because really we'll get it at the same time guys !".

Ulm doesn't have such a particularly horrible research rate either, I don't even know why you seem to be operating on this assumption :
* it's filthy stinking rich from O3/P3 which the latest CBM made even more lucrative than ever. You're probably going to throw G3 in there as well, because why not. Its troops are relatively cheap, superbly cost-efficient and you won't have all that many of them anyway, certainly you don't need many to expand. So Ulm should have little trouble matching Man for architecture - it's trivially easy to have 3 castles either up or in construction by the end of year 1. Most other nations are happy when they get 2, and many also need to have temples in theirs while yours can wait.
* it has a forge bonus to make lightless lanterns by the cartload, and construction is one of their priorities anyhow
* it doesn't need mage slots for expansion and
* it doesn't even need to divert that many mages from research for early or even midgame wars: One mage to drop the MR boost, one to drop the armour boost, maybe one back home to summon steel standards, you're good to go. Can the opposition hope to match or circumvent your force multiplication with just two mages of their own in the field ? At these rex levels ? Not bloody likely.

Hell, in the Heroes of Slight & Tragic game you're in the upper middle of the pack research-wise, gaining faster than the other slowpokes, and you've been stuck with only 2 forts for most of the game ! (not to mention busy conquering one and a half of your neighbours)

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

(err, MR 14 baseline, not 12, meaning you fail 2/3rds of the time. My mistake.)

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Seriously?

Alt6+Const6 = 2080 RPs
Alt9+nothing else = 4600
Alt9+Const8 = 7420

The system is designed so that it is always much easier to bring several schools up to a medium level than it is to bring any one to 8/9. So Pythium maybe ought to have more research than Ulm, but 3 1/2 times the research? (and that is without the "high conjuration or evocation" part)

I love Solar Cascades spam (especially in a reverse communion). But it is 25AP stun, so maybe 15 fatigue each time you hit a typical Ulmish infantry (without factoring in the Relief that Ulm had in every big battle). It is going to take 8-10 hits, at least, to fatigue out each infantry. The problem with Cascades vs Ulm BR is that "*every single pythium mage worth a damn*" will be torn to shreds by the 2nd or 3rd round of combat.

Research advantage - maybe. Earth mages? From where?

Absolutely. Maybe not enough to face down Iron Blizzard spam (someone would have to test that), but is sure as heck the first thing I'd go for as Pythium.

Very much worth trying.

Vitriol is hard to get a mass of anyway - and only 1/4 of Pythium's cap-only mages can cast it. Maybe worth a try, but not something you could rely on by turn 30.

Mech Men / Statues - earth again. Not Pythium's strong point.


Destruction (and Magma) = that earth mage problem again. And here you hit on a huge advantage for BR Ulm. Even if you try to match the battlefield-wide Destruction w/ the regular version, you will need a bunch of casters who will all have to be positioned way forward, making them vulnerable to all kinds of bad things. The full-field Destruction from a single mage positioned safely in the way-back is simply a ridiculous advantage.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

I've always sort of assumed Arrow Fend would work against Iron Darts, because it works against Blade Wind. Never had the opportunity to try it though.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Enslave mind has the useful aspect of then making Ulm kill their own unit, or it getting to do damage to them.

And if you hand out some penetration gear, your success rate will go up noticeably. Also, communion masters will have enhanced penetration. Its not an ideal counter, but when their army is only 80 strong even slipping 10 enslave minds through over the course of a battle is a substantial hit. Would not be the first thing i tried.

Because all the other magic i suggested that didn't involve MR is useless, clearly.

Their spells are balanced *for Ulm* at level 6. Ulm is going to have Drain scales. (If nothing else, their capital is going to be at Dr3 no matter what they do, because they have a capital site which increases Drain). Their best research mage provides *5RP* per turn, and their 5RP option outside the capital isn't even sacred. Pythium can *double* that before considering scales, and *all* its mages are sacred.

And then you have to consider that, outside the capital, to get a iron blizzard caster they have to hire a 3RP Black Priest instead of a Smith.

There's no reason Pythium can't run as scales either. If you aren't running scales as Pythium, you should be getting other benefits to compensate - benefits you chose over having those scales.

....And pythium can make lanterns and owl quills. I might note that MA Ulm has no native F income, and rarely gets better than F1 to enable site searching.

No one does?

Fog Warriors would go a long way.

Heck, a pile of crossbows would go a long way.

Yeah, I don't understand that at all. Its inconceivable to me that I'm not trailing in research. I think the explanation is more in what everyone else is not doing, and less in what I'm doing. I've even had to commit substantial mage forces to combat. So something is weird in that game, and it has nothing to do with Ulm having a stellar research rate. (Seriously, i'm not even to Const 6 yet!)

Anyway, I would reasonably expect Pythium to have double Ulm's RP at *every stage of the game* given both positions are about equal otherwise.

The only reason i'm not a flattened pancake is because my aggressors found themselves attacked from other sides. I haven't been conquering anyone - i've been defending myself from aggression. Gained a whole 2 provinces relative to what i had initially. And 3 of my provinces have basically zero population thanks to Sylvania (including their capital and another province that had >10k people before).
---

Anyway, Ulm's infantry are supposed to be able to be made ridiculously strong. *That's its endgame*. There are *piles* of answers to infantry.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Yes, it works.

Also, tower shields work ok. (Thugs or even mages with magic tower shields or other high parry shields in the face of armor destruction would work)

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

This war was in the early thirties, and my research was highly unulmish for the following reasons:
-I had conquered Acro, large parts of my Domain did not have Drain Scales, and I let my experienced mages research there. I think my research at that time was on quite in the middle of the pack.
-I took the special pretender awake, he had like 8 or 9 research points from turn 1, in turn 30ish, these add up to around 300 RP points, or level 3.5 in one school.
-Pythium used very large communions to attack Mictlan, talking about 50ish commanders (split over 2-3 armies). I was using geography to ammas my mages only when I needed them.
-I found early Air and had a fair amount of air research boosters.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

I did specify sorcery magic, which is the main strength of quite a few nations. If you nix that, you basically screw those nations over by forcing them to play with stuff they're not good at using research that's probably not in their best interest to go for, all other things being equal. IOW you're forcing them to play specifically to counter you instead of what's in their own interest. That's bad balance.

That's exactly my point.
If you give Ulm level 6 spells that are equivalent in relative power with spells others get at 9 magic (which is over *3* times as many RPs), on the (IMO flawed) assumption that both will get there at the same time, you've basically removed Ulm's research disadvantage, or Pythium's research edge, from the game.

Or to put it another way, you've made Ulm as powerful at one rex level 6 and 2 rex 3s as other nations are at *multiple* level 7+, which nullifies part of the point of being able to race up the research tree in the first place.
Since Ulm not only has that, but also superior troops that'll dominate the early and midgame battlefield, and probably the late game one as well because even typical "screw your army" moves like a Master Enslave with all pen boosters and a communion from hell isn't likely to make such a big dent in a late game Ulmish blob...yeah

I mean, there's already quite the hubhub about vanilla Ulm being top tier or borderline OP in the latest CBMs. And your nation makes CBM vanilla Ulm look like non CBM EA Agartha.

As for other nations' mages being sacred, that only really matters in the very long run. In the shorter run it means having to plop down a 400g temple everywhere (how many turns of slashed mage upkeep does that cover, paid upfront too ?). Since Ulm's big spells come in the short run... yeah.

So ? To be able to rain as much death as long as a Blizzard spammer can, Pythium has to recruit communicants which have no RP *at all*.

What benefits ? Sacreds ? That's a laugh, considering the kind of tools BR Ulm has to deal with those.

Not as many of them per gem. As for the income, natively Pythium won't have much F either, and Owl Quills come with a severe opportunity cost on A gems.

Fog Warriors is a level *7* spell. That's 1760 research points (need Thaum 1 too) if they beeline for it. BR Ulm can have its two go-to spells in 400. You said you expected Pythium to have double the research rate ? They'd still only be halfway to FW, with almost nothing to show for it on the field. Yay Phantasmal Army ! Aren't Ghost Wolves just da bomb ?

And what about nations that aren't Pythium ? Or are you balancing against an optimal play by one of the best vanilla nations ? What should, say, Ermor do ? Forego raising skellies entirely and hope to have FW up before your dedicated undead killers (or just the flails) show up ?

Besides, Fog Warriors on its own wouldn't save Pythium. Its legionnaires still won't break 25 armour any time soon with their shortswords while steadily getting mulched themselves. Thunderspam would, but then a) that's even moar research and b) that's a lot more mages out in the field than 2, which slows down research, which hurts them a lot long term.

As for mass crossbows, Ulm has tower shields, indy crossbows are not all that common in the MA, hard to mass unless you plop down castles specifically for them (and don't have sloth), and mapmove 1. Ulm for its part only has to bring a hundred or so Lion Tribe shortbows on "fire archers" to blow them away.

Sacred nations do.

I didn't say they had a stellar one. But it's not as *OMG horrible*, which you seem to be assuming.

5 RP per castle is about as good as most other nations have it without magic scales, except for those nations that have superb mages to compensate for the fact that their troops are utter crap (Bandar, Shinu anyone ?) and thus need the research edge to even be able to compete because large numbers of their mages will be busy shoring up armies at any given time. You have 5 RP with 120 cool free design points to show for it. And if any of your neighbours is running Magic, it's yowza time for you because you can let his dom into your lands anyway. Don't need temples in your forts, remember ?

As for "they must be doing something wrong", Myconos has been turtling the whole game, is a pretty OK research nation running Magic 1 scales, has never been in a war and still doesn't have twice as much research as you do. With 4 castles to your 2. Red Woods doesn't either with *6*.
Admittedly I've been forcing a handful of their mages to patrol, and killed about 20 of them too. Still, that should tell you something.

I must have said this far too many times already, but you're seriously underestimating Ulm's research, or overestimating that of other nations. Or maybe you're just too used to playing with folks who'll take Magic 3 all day, everyday, I dunno. But then it'd be poor design to balance against that.

How do you figure ? You've got twice as much land as any other nation besides me, and I've taken over all of Sylvania's lands plus some of RW's on a transitory basis. Doesn't really matter how many that is above what you had when Sylvania tried to be clever - it's still a large advantage.

As for "I only live because somebody attacked my aggressors", that's what typically happens isn't it ? Not that you weren't holding your own against both Sylvania and Malaz at the same time. You probably would have been proper screwed with the fairies joining the fray, I'll give you that. But handily winning a 2-on-1 is already pretty remarkable in and of itself, no ?

I agree. The problem is that right now it's not its endgame in your nation. It's its early game. It's its rush game, fer pete's sake !

There is not a single MA nation out there that can handle hordes of 25 prot regulars without some *serious* research and mage-time investment. Of those, you've made sure to eliminate quite a few with the super MR, the relief (admittedly the Steel Standards come a little bit later, which gives things like skellyspam a very brief window of opportunity, if a huge cost in mage-turns) and spies that come with barely an opportunity cost.

To be able to match your troops pound for pound, others will need summons, which cost gems and mage turns that will always be in much tighter supply than gold, *and* some good battlefield support to boot.

As for the late game, your armies will still rock everyone's favourite summons' faces with weapons of sharpness, battlefield luck, battlefield relief, battlefield berserk, battlefield elemental resists, battlefield enemy-only destruction (only the last one costing gems on a per battle basis, natch, so no hope for your enemies of leveraging your extreme reliance on a single gem type by forcing you to spend lots of them in skirmishes)... *while also having a massive advantage when it comes to SCs* because you can gear yours like it ain't no thang and the Iron Angel is basically designed to make SCs' lives miserable if the recruitable cavalry thugs weren't quite enough for your tastes.

Yeah, I don't see no balance problem there ! :p

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Well the Hall of fame does tell you something about the strength of Iron Darts spam and thus Ulmish mages in general. Of course some is because you killed a lot of undead but it is still impressive. And with Iron Blizzard it'll get even better.

http://i.imgur.com/GfUv4.gif

And I have to agree with above posters that Black Rose Ulm like CBM 1.92 MA Ulm is OP and should be toned down in some areas.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Actually, that's mostly Banish spam. Which my mages cast preferentially to Iron Darts (I don't have Iron Blizzard yet).

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

What exactly do you think it go-to spells are that they can have them in 400RP?

Full army Legions of Steel is a mild improvement over regular legions of steel. And unlike CBM Ulm, BR Ulm has to actually research it and spend gems on it. (Usually 2e per cast, in fact, until they can get conjuration 3). I refuse to believe that paying gems for legion of steel on the full army and at a higher research level is broken.

So, that's 200 of those 400 RPs... Iron Darts for the other 200? Which is ok, i suppose. Its no Iron Blizzard. Its sort of like hiring 10 crossbows.

Neither of those are spells that people were complaining about (except now you), and I really don't think either of them are broken.

Pythium's tower shields basically negate iron darts. So now we just have to deal with cutting through heavy armor on 800 RP. Even lightning bolts (100RP!) will handle that, but we could also forge Spirit Helms and Bows of Lightning, use Thunderstrike (360RP) even with communions (40RP), and so on.

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Yes, Ulm has tower shields. But its troops that actually do damage don't. The stuff people seem to be going to - Guardians, Black Plate Flails - these don't have shields at all. A fire arrows rush would also be pretty devastating against them.

----------
I might point out that Ulm's antimagic equivalent, in addition to costing an earth gem, also requires an E3H1 mage to cast. It may deserve to move up to Enchantment 4 to be at the same tier as regular antimagic.

----------
Advantages of CBM Ulm right now:
-2 base encumbrance
-Army-wide Legion of Steel with no research and no gem cost
-Forge of Ulm

----------
Regarding Heroes specifically:
Its turn 33. I just got my first level 6 research accomplished. Besides that I have level 3 in two paths, and some scattered lower research. That's ~1800RP.

I've had Conj 9 / Construction 8 before turn 33 in a different game. Which is like 7k RPs.

-----------
Anyway, the next version of Ulm BR is going to nerf its PD some, probably quite a bit. It will probably also remove at least one of vanilla Ulm's spells from them entirely (Iron Angels have to go, they're thematically awful).

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

It's not a mild improvement, it's a *tremendous* improvement, and it's tremendouser the larger a force you can bring to one battle (like, say, the rush for someone's cap in the first 20 turns). Being able to make an entire army very much like unkillable, with only one mage, this early in the game ? That's messed up.
It would be a great spell for many nations. For Ulm, who has superduper armour to begin with ? It's just obscene.

I was actually thinking of the MR one. Lots of good early spells that you'd want to use against manageable numbers of very high prot dudes are MR resist (Enslave Mind, Paralyze, Mind Burn, False Fetters, Sleep Cloud, Dessication & Sailor's Death...), and BR Ulm already has excellent MR so compounding their existing advantages into the "lulz go home" range would be my first choice.
Iron Darts is neat and all, but you need a critical mass of Iron Priests to really exploit it, and if you're hiring priests and sending them on the field they're not Smiths researching and getting randoms. Also, friendly fire - silly to have unkillable dudes and kill them your own darn self :)

Remove it entirely. I'm serious.
I don't know what (besides theme, I guess) justifies BR Ulm getting its own copy of that spell. It already has high MR, so unlike vanilla Ulm doesn't need it to shore up a weakness. If it wants antimagic, it can get diversity like every other kid in the class. Plenty of nations out there would beg for some easy to cast proprietary spell to boost their own advantages, but they don't get 'em do they ? Niefel doesn't have a cold Mass Regen, Tien Chi doesn't have a path 2 flaming arrows, Lanka doesn't have a holy antimagic.

The same goes for battlefield-wide Destruction or improved Legions of Steel. There are already spells out there, and you can already cast them. Why should BR Ulm get easier, better, exponentially more cost-effective variants ? What justifies it ?

Aaaand here's what I'm talking about. You're using one mage/turn going along with the main army. You're expecting others to use dozens to retort. You think that's just dandy. WHY ?!
Granted, some sacred nations are also able to force this kind of early lopsided investments, but then *they* can't play killer scales at the same time !

Yes, but if you're expecting crossbows you're evidently going to bring a couple dozen shields and protect the whole army with them because there's no "fire at the dangerous ones dammit" order. "Anyone who can't script around archers sucks. Seriously." -- Squirreloid, 12/15/2011 :D

Fire Arrows ? It's 8AP damage. With 25 armour that's still only 8 vs. 13. Might work over a looong time I guess.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

As for the other proprietary spells:

- Battlefield relief is fine as is. It shores up a weakness, costs a lot, can only be in one place at once, comes at the same rex as the spell it autocasts. Seems ok to me.

- the battlefield wide elemental resist is OK, that's something forced no-diversity Ulm can certainly do with in the long run, but it should be rex level 9 just like Gaia's Blessing. 6 is just insulting, even more so that it's in Construction and comes in the guise of a really powerful mage with a high forge bonus to boot.

- auto solar brilliance is probably OK as is.

- auto luck must go. There's a reason the Sword of Aurgelmer is an artifact - turn 0 will of the fates is that good. Luck is non-thematic for Ulm anyway, they stand against superstitions like these. Then again, it doesn't seem to be working ATM, so that's moot :) (or is the Relic of Steel supposed to be doing something else ? I'm not seeing any effect). You already have access to Will of the Fates normally using matrices on S Smiths or Icons of the Forge anyway.

- auto growing fury is also immensely powerful with the kind of troops Ulm can use it on. It's like getting army of leaded Maenads, but much earlier and also better because you're getting even higher protection out of it and your "Maenads" can actually kill stuff but good. It also doesn't make much thematic sense, if Ulm is supposed to be the logic and reason no-nonsense empire, to rely on frothing madmen. Make it cast fanaticism instead if you really feel like BR Ulm needs to also be preternaturally good vs. morale effects for some reason, and lower it a bit in both research and gemcost. 4 and 10 maybe ?

- the Cursed Icon is really powerful. But then again it does cost a mint and come in late...but then again it's sickeningly powerful and that's without even gearing him. Compare him to an Ember Lord who's much harder to cast, costs one and a half times as much, and doesn't come inbuilt with nearly as much of the good stuff. Or to Cyclops/Asynja, both of whom cost about the same and have almost none of the good stuff. Granted, they will eventually disease themselves and eventually will get some of the bad afflictions from that disease (most of the afflictions won't actually hinder them one bit), but still. To top it all they're in Construction instead of at or near the end of a completely different path, like all the other SC chassises, further cementing BR Ulm as the "I only need to research 2 paths to win" nation.

As an aside, why did you feel the need to give all these guys Blood Vengeance/Fear/Awe anyway ? Autocasting the best spells in the game without having to bother with that diversity malarkey wasn't enough, they also had to be able to be awesome high end thugs for good measure :) ?

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

The luck guy is definitly working for me, my guys turn a bit green and get luck in the attribute list.
I would be a bit in favor of replacing the really strong buffs by a bit more minor buffs that still could make sense. This would also encourage to thugs these commanders out, as their main use would no longer be the onbattlespell.
Rush of Strength comes to mind for example, as would Fanatism.
So, as a sweeping solution: Reduce costs for both of the Knights, make the cheaper one autocast rush of Strength, and the more expensive/higher research one autocast relief. Other options could be quickness (which would further encourage using them as thugs, as you would have to place them fairly frontally).

I actually dont neccessarily think that Gaias Blessing as on battlespell is overpowered in itself, it would propably be good for dominions if more nations had access to it. Especially the "Might" nations. Rose Ulm to an extent reduce the Dominions Paradigm that "Magic always wins" to "Magic usually wins", which is not neccesarily bad in my opinion.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Might be a bug specific to the Heroes of Slight & Tragic mod then (the compilation mod used in the game discussed earlier ITT)

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

[quote=Squirrelloid;794117]Okay, that's definitely not true. Legions of Steel is an incredibly powerful spell already for heavily armored troops...except it's next to impossible to use. The casting AI just refuses to cast it on armored troops, instead casting it on armorless mages who don't even benefit, archers, etc. The only way I've gotten it to work is 1) putting the casting mages right in the middle of the troops they're supposed to buff, and 2) not having any other mages/archers within range. This hugely limits your army deployment and leaves your mages vulnerable to random arrows, spells, etc.

A battlefield wide version is ridiculously better, though not as ridiculously better as the current CBM version.

That said, I like the theme of Ulm having an unstoppable wave of steel. I think a more thematic nerf might be to really cut back on Ulm's battlefield magic. Ulm is supposed to ban magic outside the forge and religion right? So make it that Master Smiths can't cast in battle, using a second shape that has no magic. That way, Ulmish troops are ridiculous, but have to depend on their forged relics, cap only priest smiths, and the weak black priests for battlefield magic.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Now, having participated in the creation of an "Awesome Ulm" mod over at something awfull (it turned out even stronger than Black Rose in my opinion, it was about equal to very powerfull nations such as Sauro, Lanka or LA Mari), what I would propose for Ulms mages is decent spell casting capacities but fairly high encumberance and fairly low precision. This way they can buff whihc imho is in line with MA Ulms fluff. I was also liking map move 2 on the non black steel troops, and Ulm troops actually having good weapons (Broadswords not Hammers etc.).

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

I think we should be clear. Ulm has one schtick. That schtick is massed heavily armored units with light mage support.

There are counters to that schtick.

Most other nations have multiple schticks.

As such, Ulm's schtick has to be really good. Its the only thing it really has to rely on.

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mm2 on their infantry is right out. Its not thematic. If anything, it would be the black plate which would get it (because its effectively a magic material), and that destroys any sense of internal balance.

Broad Swords would require new sprites =P.

(More relevantly, broad swords don't strike me as a fitting companion to a *tower shield*. Of course, I don't particularly like hammers with tower shields either.)

Now, if you mean on the cavalry, well, that's not totally out of the question...
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I might tweak research levels of some spells, but I am not removing any of their new spells or changing the one battle spells. Considering the *stronger* version of Ulm BR that also inherited the encumbrance change for regular Ulm got completely thrashed by LA TC in the only game I've watched its performance from beginning to end, I find Kobal's claims of gross imbalance highly unlikely.

Especially since BR Ulm's steamrolling of Pythium seems to have had a lot to do with timing, diplomacy, and catching your enemy with his pants down. That it was a steamrolling seems perfectly reasonable in that context.

And that's the steamrolling of one nation. IIRC the game is ongoing and Ulm was forced to conceed Pythium's capital to Ermor, at least for a short while. That doesn't sound like Ulm BR totally overpowering everyone.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

Actually, Ulm in this game is pretty much dying now, since we are down to three main players and the remaining 2 big ones just decided to team up against Ulm. Which will give Shinuyama the game unless they go for a split victory, which Shinuyama has no reason of considering. Shinuyama is currently far ahead of Caelum in terms of SC numbers etc., Shinuyama has Air/W access and thus no problem at all in dealing with Thunder Strike/Falling frost Spam, and while Caelum got some D going, Shinu is not known for a lack of wither bones access either.

In the end, it was my own mistake in not pressing a very early war with Shinu (was hard because Acro backstabbed me though), it also reinforces that one should not delay dealing with lategame threats. Rose Ulm still needs a Rainbow/Somebody with serious paths to compete in the lategame, it has no natural paths for any gem generating globals, and at least Earth Deep Blood Well is something they desperatly need.

Re: Ulm: Order of the Black Rose v0.301b
 

You are awfully quick to declare defeat, considering that the war just started and no real battles have been fought yet. Let's see what happens when a Shin army meets up against an Ulm army full of all the BR special goodies.

As far as this thread goes, the point should be to try to separate issues related to the strength of the mod nation from those arising purely from the diplomatic situation.