WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

Do you guys use any house rules in your human vs human winspmbt games ?

Also, how large games you play regarding the point cost. (18 000pts is largest game i have played this far if i remember right.)

Rules i have been using have been:

-Ban all cluster and bomblet ammunition (too powerful)
-Ban rocket launcher artillery (too powerful)
-Limit size 0 units (too annoying, if there are too much)
-Limit infanfry to something like, 4-5 companies. (No need to limit in desert maps)
-Limit artillery (like 5-10% of total pts.)
-Get some pts limit that you _have to_ put on tanks / MBT's. (something like 30% of total pts or something. The game is named winspMBT after all.)
-If you have gunships / air strikes, you have to tell beforehand that you have them, not what you have or how many. (Frustrating to buy sam's when opponent does not have any targets for them.)

-You can only capture victory hexes with units that have guns and if infantry unit have lost over 50% of their men, you cannot capture hexes with it. Also, you cannot capture hexes with size 0 units.

How you put your victory hexes ?
in the middle of the map ?
what formation etc ?

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

I think there are no rules prefix. It arrives an agreement with the opponents.
Rules that I use frequently:
-Limit size 0 units (too annoying, if there are too much)
-Limit artillery (like 5-10% of total pts.)
Less common:
-Ban all cluster and bomblet ammunition (too powerful)
-Ban rocket launcher artillery (too powerful)
Never:
-Limit infanfry to something like, 4-5 companies. (No need to limit in desert maps)
-Get some pts limit that you _have to_ put on tanks / MBT's. (something like 30% of total pts or something. The game is named winspMBT after all.)
-If you have gunships / air strikes, you have to tell beforehand that you have them, not what you have or how many. (Frustrating to buy sam's when opponent does not have any targets for them.)
-You can only capture victory hexes with units that have guns and if infantry unit have lost over 50% of their men, you cannot capture hexes with it. Also, you cannot capture hexes with size 0 units.

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

What's the point of warning your opponent you have air strikes? The whole idea is to limit what your opponent can buy and force him to spend money on SAM, money that he doesn't spend on tanks etc...

Anyway, yes, rules are mostly set between players.

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

In this respect:
-If you have gunships / air strikes, you have to tell beforehand that you have them, not what you have or how many. (Frustrating to buy sam's when opponent does not have any targets for them.)

Generally agree on the points of air.
Although it is more interesting to play with random air points. only know one person who likes to play well :)

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

It's kind of a gentlemen rule, that air sorties thing.

Gives you a good edge even before the game have started if u spend ur points on ground units other than air strikes and opponents is spending 5% of pts in sam's etc that do not have targets.

Gives more challenge if tables are "more even".

You use reloadable bomblets / clusters ?

(At least the reloadable ones are extra nasty.)

But, if both have the same options, tables are even, but still they are quite powerfull.

I have found it more fun to play without them, for that exact reason.

How about the hexes, how u set em up ?

(Yes, ofcourse both players have to agree for house rules.)

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

On air
Air set to XXX you buy AAA just like you would for doing a campaign or the formation would have, some times it has no targets sometimes its overwhelmed sometimes its about right.
Might agree something diffrent for a change if had lots of attack helo games for instance
Also no objection to taking on airbourne force though this must be stated before hand in which case I tend to buy normal AAA I would plus a few area sams that I normaly hardly bother with.
All his force including arty must be airborne except perhaps a couple of batteries of offboard arty & possibly a small scout or special forces element on the ground.
Do allow option of HQ starting setup adjacent to friendly map edge so he does not get shot down.

On "Gives more challenge if tables are "more even".
No gives one side more of a challenge one less of one better player should try to take the more difficult side.

On Cluster/ Rocket munitions
Yes use them & would not say more fun to play without but certainly much easier as do not need to use any tactics against it. In fact dont really need any tactics at all for late era MBTs vs arty so very simple. Need to go back to a WW2 or 1950 -60s game for your tanks to be worried about arty.
Just buy it sensibly can decide offmap only if dont like idea of reloads or restrict on map to say 3 or 6 units or more complex realistic things if prefer.
In fact can be a very intresting little sub game what do I use CM arty for the most counter battery fire vs his CMs taking out ATGMs & AAA only if I achieve these do I go for the tricky thing of hitting vehicles on the move
Banning cluster munitions gives tanks a hard time because AAA & ATGMs are not dealt with effectively so all you have done is changed the nature of the game.

On V hexes
Normally set up manually placing on suitable things like bridges crossroads hilltops not the middle of a field. Normally in groups of 3-5 up to 7 placed so reasonably balanced for both sides if meeting.
With roads tend to stick adjacent to rather than on so can use that road without giving away change of control &/or set most flags to control of players at start

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

V hexes on bridges, isn't this quite a problematic when you destroy the bridge with artillery ?

I think most of atgm units are vulnerable to field gun fire, they have 4 pen and often only MBT's have top armor over 4.

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

Bridges are usually hot-spots in any full-scale war, so it can be good to have v-hexes in bridges, and the hexes around them, if someone blows the bridge, both sides lose it and the v-hex in there,(sure it can be held before, and then would be stuck) but most points you get are from killing anyway...

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

1)Bridges are choke points and should be given consideration when placing VH's.

2)Depending on the range of atgm's they dont have to move much and they are 0 size,better they find a good FoV and stay put and wait for hapless armour to come in range,then the fun starts:)

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

As said tend to place v hexes by roads not on them that includes bridges but you want to try taking bridges down with arty makes me happy. Whats your success rate I am all for it once in a while you may get lucky but normally using heavy stuff that hurts on hexes where my units arent so Im happy.

Not going to get into CM arty debate been done to death try doing searches you will see I am all for it. Talking about using CM vs foot ATGM not vehicle eliminate fast. Thats the difference with a modern battle things die much quicker & can move much faster as a whole its not a safe place to be. Once I am ready to launch an attack I want to kill & move on as fast as possible decisive strike not a firefight. Keep the initiative & you have won 95% of the time but ATGMs can act as spoilers & slow things down so crucial to take out fast.
Only if your tanks are heavily outclassed is CM handy vs other tanks otherwise strip the tanks support away with it & they are dead. A few mortar rounds to suppress the tank a bit is all you need on the arty front vs them.
That said the worry of having CM around means sometimes you dont use stuff as effectively as could without it as wont risk groups so the threat of CM makes killing them easier.

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

The people I play with, house rules go in one ear and out the other, so the way I see it "all's fair in love and war". But then again, there are cheaters, so "all's not fair in love and war." On the the other hand Steel Panthers isn't war, or is it? You really have to love the game to make house rules work the way they were meant to. Congrats go out to gamers who play with house rules. Personally, I Don't like'em, unless I make'em. Really hard to enforce them.

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

Here's my list of preferences for SPWW2.

I usually don't use them all, but its a guide for things to discuss before a battle, and of course everything is is negotiable.


Mechanics
1. WinSPWW2 - CD version 4.5
2. Slot XXX
3. Points: 2000 (core force points if Campaign)
4. Turns: 20 (Short battles help preserve core forces in a campaign)
5. Turn rate: At least 7 to 10 turns per week (I am located in the XXX time zone)

Setting
6. Nations: German vs. British (I will play as...)
7. Campaign from: June 1944, to July 1944 (Normandy)
8. Battles: 6 (No obligation to play every battle, only to finish each battle that’s started)
9. Meeting engagement
10. Map: custom map XXX, size: 140x120
11. Visibility: 15-30 (No dust trails)
12. V-hexes customized to more realistic terrain/building objectives (subject to approval)
13. No V-hexes in map centre (10 hex wide ‘no mans land’)
14. Place 10 V-hexes on each side of map on realistic objectives, in 3 to 5 clumps a side
15. V-hex values all set to 100 points each.

Scoring
16. Use the Blitz scoring system
17. Report the results of each battle to The Blitz Ladder (but not the final campaign result)

Reasonably Realistic Battalions
(limits on zero sized units)
18. No more than 1 sniper per Infantry Company
19. No more than 1 MMG or HMG platoon per Infantry Company (unless co. came with more)
20. No more than 2 Anti-Tank guns per Company
21. No more than 2 Infantry Anti-Tank teams per Company (unless co. came with more)
22. No more than 2 Explosives (Booby Traps, Fougasses, Demolition Charges) per Engineer pl.

Artillery
23. Max. 10% artillery (not including AAA, ATk guns, aircraft or direct-fire light mortars)
24. Onboard arty only (unless otherwise agree)
25. No assigning artillery until your first move turn
26. Fast Artillery: OFF
27. No re-supply of rockets, by ammo dumps/trucks/canisters

Other Preferences
28. All realism preferences ON (settings at 100%)
29. Aircraft Availability: Random
30. Gliders or Paratroops must be deployed in the first half of the battle
31. Gliders or Paratroops enter the map from one of the three friendly directions
32. No spotter planes or helicopters
33. No excessive use of Z-fire (area fire). Each unit can only use non-LOS z-fire once per turn
34. No capture of V hexes on last turn (as last move replay unavailable in PBEM campaign)
35. No purchase of allies equipment without agreement
36. Captured equipment: You may purchase an enemy vehicle or crewed gun that surrendered, was abandoned or immobilized, and ended a previous battle undestroyed and overrun (in PBEM campaigns).

---

If you really have opponents that are ignoring rules, I recommend joining one of the wargaming clubs and playing members. The clubs arbitrate rules, and I've rarely had a problem in a club environment.

The two clubs I know of that have WinSP ladders are:

The Blitz

http://www.theblitz.org/message_boar...lay.php?fid=14

World at War

http://worldatwar.eu/index.php?&lang...location=intro



Cross

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

I personally prefer more general rules. One might think of points in general. For example:
1) Map (size, terrain, visibility ...)
2) Point of purchase units
3) Restriction of units (size zero, air points, armor .....)
4) Location of VPs

Interestingly suggesting Cross, but it seems very detailed. I think the less rules the imagination flies. I also think that in war there are no rules.:re: :fire:
If players want to recreate a special field for battle if it can create more detailed rules.
Greetings

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

CrosS:

Interesting, that you want to limit off map artillery, for me i prefer on map artillery to be more effective.

But this might be different in world at war 2 vs winspmbt ?

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

My 'preferences' are just that, preferences not rules. It's just a list of things that I may want to think about and discuss with an opponent prior to a battle. It's a reference tool.

And I disagree ;) war does have rules of engagement.

I play battles with almost no rules, and some with detailed agreements.
If I was to play against you, we may agree to have no rules.:D

Cross


Lankinen,

It's not that I'm trying to limit off-map artillery, but rather I like that on-map artillery is vulnerable to armoured breakthroughs.

It forces players to protect their front line, or more importantly their rear, to keep their arty units safe. You have think a little more strategically.
If you succeed in getting to your opponents rear area it could be a hollow victory if there's nothing there, but on-map arty provides a prize for successsful breakthroughs.

Cross

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

I go with Cross's preferences pretty much myself,
But now days keeping Arty within 5% and tanks and armour no more than 25% for a single battle.

When playing a campaign,
I am starting with keeping starting pt.s very low "preferably" only a coy of infrantry for each side,, a sniper a a scout and one mmg additonal,regardless of pt.s allowed,and no tanks allowed for the starting core,but can be added later,say a section for 2 coy of infrantry and a platoon for a Bn of infrantry.

All dedicated arty is to be bought from auxillery and always kept within the 5% range,excluding support arty which comes with infrantry,and no other auxillery units ever bought,except trucks.

This keeps the buying of new units from support pts available when the going gets too tough for the core.
Then the campaign should be set at hard or better the hardest levels to reflect the limited ablities to repair or heal units,from one battle to the next.

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

I was talking about real war.:o

Re: WinSPMBT "house rules"
 

I generally like to ban cluster munitions. Having been on the receiving end of them to the point where I was basically defeated only by massive CM being dropped everywhere I tried it out on an opponent only to kill the fun for him as it killed the fun for me. So it quickly became banned in my book. Though sometimes allowing it from air units is Ok'd...