Company commander bug/exploit
 

Much to my annoyance, my buddy has been recently found a bug/exploit in the buy phase of the game. He purchases a company, removes all the platoons, leaving the company commander, then continues to repeat the process until the maximum amount has been met(I think it's around 5). After all of this, he proceeds to purchase the rest of his infantry in platoons along with the rest of his force. The result is almost limitless rallying capability for every squad, as each one can be rallied by by a nearby company commander and lieutenant(imagine 2 infantry companies split between 5 company commanders!) Until recently I have resisted using the exploit, as it just seems cheap & unhistorical, but the results have been so overwhelming that I'm going to have to use it to compete.

I'm just curious to know if anyone has run into this exploit and/or knows a way to limit it via options or something.

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

I've never had anybody do that in a PBEM.

The easiest way to fix it is to just make it illegal in the purchase.

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

We'll put this on the list to investigate

Don

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

I never had that happen before as AFIK, after 100+ pbem games.

What i would do first of all is cease playing that guy,instead of going down the same road and doing the same dirty trick to other honest potential opponents.

Screen saves of rosters before first turn or last turn would catch it,

Too bad vermin like that are exploiting the game:mad:

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

It is really quite simple - if a PBEM opponent insists on using such gamesmanship, once you have asked him not to do so again then do not play that person. Same as if you agreed an arty points limit and he keeps breaking that.

If it is some sort of ladder - then he should be reported to the organisers for bad sportsmanship too. Such vermin are mere oxygen thieves.

As to could it be fixed in code - probably.

Andy

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

As others have said why play him if asked him to stop doing so & he persists. Lots of work as he has to cross attach the platoons & rebuild the formations & I have never come across it.
Though I do use something similar mainly for campaigns but on occasion for 1 off battles.
If artillery for the side I am playing does not have a Company level force or the company leader is a FOO I will buy a company & delete all its units. I then assign all Artillery & AAA to this guy, my arty park commander if you like.
Simply done because assigning to other frontline formations means large distances between commander & arty park

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

Sorry for double post could be a problem if put in code as often end up deleting one platoon in one formation to make units fit battle points available.
Example delete one tank platoon to free up points for extra infantry otherwise you have to do a lot of fudging working out points & buy this Company last so comes minus the extra platoon of tanks. Or sell it off cause you realise forgot to buy SAMs ATGM or some such rather than restarting whole buy process.
Think most people do this delete 1 or 2 platoons at end to buy bits n bobs if dont fit or suddenly realise forgot to buy something.

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

The trick to fixing this will be to to find a way to expose the exploiters without causing grief to legitimate uses like you documented.

I suspect this is not a "new" cheat. Normally when people find things like this they don't brag about it so this could have been quietly used for years as there is no really way to spot except that the other guy seems to always have his troops rallied. The end game screen is currently no help as all it shows is "rifle section" and that could be commanded by a Sgt or major.

It's definitely on the to-do list

Don

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

I don't see how this is much different than a player purchasing 120 snipers for their infantry company.

The problem is with the purchaser, not the game.


Cross

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

Yeah, but the thing is that it's my buddy who I often play in casual hotseat games on a laptop (Laptops saved the hotseat format!) He is stubborn and cheap about things like this; that's why I posted to see if there was a way to disable it from the start (outside of a gentleman's agreement.)

It's really annoying though and I hope you guys never come across it. Here is an example of how good this exploit works:

I pound 2 Thai rifle squads dug in on a hilltop fortification ring with the heaviest Japanese off-map artillery for 30+ turns, Z fire them with 5 rifle squads for numerous turns when I was in range, roll a type 97 1 2 hexes away and empty out 3 shots plus machine gun fire and the next turn he miraculously rallys his squad, moves it out into the open, takes 2 shots from the 97, 2 shots from a covering and previously hidden rifle squad, is still able to rally, assaults & destroys the 97. Imagine how frustrating this type of thing is when playing out for an entire match?

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

120 snipers are easy to detect..yes ? At games end you can review what your opponent had and when you find 120 snipers you can then decide if your opponent is worth engaging in any future games with.

How do you easily detect dozens of Captains and Majors running around commanding rifle sections when they are mixed in with normal companies?

Don

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

That wasn't really the point I was trying to make; but at the end of the battle when you look at the map and enemy units, I would think an unusual number of '0' units would stand out.

My point was more that opponents who want to cheat, be gamey, or exploit the game will always find a way. I'd rather play a decent opponent without game security, than a cheat on a 'secure' game.

Cross

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

True the number of '0' units would stand out on the review screen at the end but still not in the same obvious way bumping into multiple snipers at every engagement during the battle would.

My point is you would have to suspect something was wrong that would not be as obvious during the game and someone sneaking in a few extra major's would fly under most players radars.

I'm not sure where the "security" aspect was introduced into the discussion before this. The problem has NOTHING to do with PBEM security and any solution we might decide on, which could be as simple as changing the '0' units colour in the review screen to make them more obvious to reducing the rank of any company sized unit that is reduced to the command squad or any number of other ways this could be made either more obvious or impossible, would NOT involve PBEM security in any way.

Don

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

I see your point in lot harder to detect than hordes of size zero units but if it flew under your radar why would you bother checking I dont unless I feel something strange is going on.
Heres another from a few years back thought his mid to long range fire is unnerving esp opfire. A rookie probably wouldnt have picked it up but I thought whats going on & eventualy thought to check prefereces. He had set the game up with training off & his side boosted to 100, okay he gets less units but I lost quite a few before figured out why I was a sitting duck.
That said I would much rather implementing what you suggest than removing the flexibility we currently have sometimes its nice to build say infantry heavy teams by swaping one platoon for a tank one esp in campaigns for ease of deployment. Its easy enough to keep the Command Ratio for the entire purchase correct to within a couple of units.
In this case the first time its come up in how many years its simple Shorebreak realised something was up doesnt really need to know what all he has to do is decide to play a silly game vs his friend or do what everybody else does & stop playing him.
Fix this & he will probably just look for other exploits do you really want to check every game to see what hes tried now.

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

Don,

I wasn't talking about PBEM security.

A paraphrase of that sentence could be:

My point was more that opponents who want to cheat, be gamey, or exploit the game will always find a way. I'd rather play a decent opponent without exploitation countermeasures, than a cheat on a game with exploitation countermeasures.

Sorry for the confusion.
Cross

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

I think the real reason of the this thread,is to stop exploiting the game.

It causes others to do the same,then you got a bunch of numbnuts doing the same thing,Thus ruining it for everyone.

Mulptile CO's would be very hard to detect.

The cat's out of the bag now.

I hope this issue will be fixed next patch,until then i will suspend playing pbem, unless a tournament or 3rd party set-up.

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

To be more specific,

I applaude anyone who uses legit tactics on winning, in fact i learn something from it.

But cheats and exploits just undermine the spirit of the game:(

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

The easiest option would be to diable the option to "sell" platoons on the purchase screen, unless you sell their company HQ first. However, this would also reduce flexibility for various legitimate purchasing techniques which involve buying a company, selling one of the platoons and then buying another one as replacement (eg. substituting one of the platoons on a mech infantry company with tanks).

Another option would be to not make any changes to the purchasing rules, but instead make players pay extra for their company commanders. Currently, the company commanders cost the same as any other similar unit in their formation. How about making them cost say +25 points extra for their abilities?

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

I don't like that idea at all, especially the fixed price putting cheap units commanders in disadvantage.

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

neither do i, they would cost 2 or 3 times what a regular squad costs, and they won't really make a difference unless they have good rally.

Re: Company commander bug/exploit
 

Why should we all suffer for the a few jackass's who want to undermine the game.
Better way is to expose these,pansies, who suck so much at the game,:mad: they have to resort to cheating