Need help finding the enemy.
 

After all this time playing both games I'm still having serious difficulties in playing "meeting engagements" and "attacks". My main problem is finding where the enemy units before I have my units under fire. Even If I move my units one hex at a time, I always receive enemy fire and some casualties before I can find the damn enemy. Any tip to improve my enemy detection?
Thanks.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

1. Scouting, have scout units move in BEFORE your main force does, move 1 or 2 hexes at a time, scan the area a bit, if a scout unit comes under fire, retreat and make a note somewhere that your units can be under fire in the general area where the scout unit was.

2. Air Observers, pretty useful for finding tanks and fortifications, may find some infantry, but don't rely on it unless you're on a "tank heavy" battle.

3.Reserve, don't commit all your forces at once, if a unit comes under fire, let them take it and move another one to neutralize the opponent.

4.Cautious movement, move into trees, rocky areas, have some units on elevations to spot eventual enemy movements and OP firers, rushing is the way to get caught unprepared

A strategy of mine in meeting engagements is to have my troops advance a bit then position themselves to protect an area and wait for the enemy to come, like if it was a delay mission, beat them back as they try to advance then counter-attack once their attack breaks but before they reorganize.

Im pretty sure other people have a lot more to add. :)

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

For WW2 meetings I like to use as scouts: motorcyclists, cavalry scouts and bicyclists. That can get to good observation points much faster then foot scouts.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

For long range observation, I prefer to use foot scouts but initially mount them on light vehicles to a dismount site out of los from suspected enemy positions. The turn *after* dismount, I move them one hex into position, disable their weapons and let them sit for the duration unless the enemy comes too close. The effective distance for these long range observers depends quite a bit on their experience, pretty pointless to try with green scouts.

Some locations can be tricky to get to without exposing your movement. If you have sufficient artillery, you can drop a smoke screen early somewhere between suspected enemy route of advance and the approach route to your intended observation point(s).

Once my long distance observers are in place, I sometimes send a couple light tanks, scout vehicles, or motorcycle scouts towards suspected enemy locations to draw fire. It is tough to both spot the enemy and survive to retreat even with cover and smoke available. Recon by fire works well with this approach.

When scouting, turning off auto rally can help recover scouts that draw too much fire. If they get suppressed enough, don't try to rally them, just let them retreat automatically toward their rally point.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

The best way to spot the enemy,is to see them before they see you.
Placeing your scouts way forward and keeping them stealthy while you place your forces is key.
Advance infrantry "dismounted" the turn before you think you should because any later is usally a turn too late,whoops:)
Keep your tanks in a overwatch situation as covering support for the infantry until the enemy intent is clear.

Try to get some mmg's and a sniper out range of most small arms,but in good LOS to react when you get fire.
If an infranry squad gets fire,try to fire with a another unit to decrease the enemy hit chance.

Another way to spot the other guy first if you have airpoints,is turn off all bombs cannons rockets ect. except maybe MG's and do a flyover diagonaly,but not so close to give them accurate AA fire,to see whats coming,then use the heavy ordanance and arty later.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

And how you use "stealthy" tactics with scouts? Are the same tactics useable by scout tanks?

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

The infantry, especially with small number of personnel is much harder to spot then any vehicle.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

This has been covered with in depth answers loads of times before try puttind scouting or something similar in search

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

Hello. This is a thread a few months ago.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47496

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

So the idea is, and please correct me If I'm wrong. Advance the scouts one/two hex, then sit there for the rest of the turn, repeat the next turn. Is that right?
Cause If this is the idea, that will cost tons of turns limiting the time available for the rest of the advance, right?

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

Move them fast (even by a jeep) to the are where you suspect enemy activity. There you start to move cautious, especially when you move to the end line of the forest.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

If you want to spot the enemy before they spot you, ideally you want your unit/units to be:

*In good cover (rough, building, trees etc.)
*Stationary
*Unsupressed
*Experienced (higher experience units spot better)
*A size zero unit (scouts, sniper, FOO, etc.)
*A good field of view
*The right distance from overwatch area (depends on type of units you expect to spot and visibility)
*In a location that the enemy is not going to stumble on
*Weapons set to range 1


The more of the above you can achieve - and the enemy fails to achieve - the more likely you will spot them without being spotted yourself.

Move size zero, unsuppressed, experienced units into cover where they can overwatch likely avenues of approach. If you can get there before the enemy, then sit still and watch and wait.
If you can't get there before them, move in cover to just behind the overwatch location, and move slowly (only one hex) into the spot you plan to use.

Don't setup right next to a road you want to watch, or their scout car may well spot you on the way past. Setup a little 'off the beaten track', further away if the vis is good or you only want to spot vehicles, closer of the vis is poor or you want to spot infantry.

During your turn, make sure you have your 'scout' look around by right clicking the around the overwatch area, as this will cause a 'check' and previously unspotted units may show up.


Cross

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

Thanks for all that help!! And using armored scouts is the same? I'm talking about vehicles like the SDKF 222 ot the M8 Greyhound.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

They are useful for getting to the observation point fast, but once the enemy comes he will probably spot you and you would have to back off.
Experiment and you'll see what's worth to do.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

I always tought that those vehciles were intended to discover the enemy. Once found they should be able to mantain contact in order to control enemy movements. But can this be done in SPWW2?

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

Little scout cars are nippy, but do the same job as a jeep, except that a jeep can be disabled by stray MG rounds or mortar bombs. ie go to some vantage point fast, and look for advancing vehicles (e.g. in a meeting engagement). Then get out of Dodge fast once the inevitable return fire comes down on them.

An armoured scout car can have a backup role as infantry support, hosing down enemy grunts with its MGs in support of yours. Provided the AT threat is removed/non-existent. A jeep with MG has to keep outside of LMG and MMG range to do the same task (and since range is longer, it is less accurate).

Little scout cars and armoured cars are best at spotting moving enemy vehicles. They are not that good at spotting infantry, or stationary AFV waiting in ambush - unless they pop off a shot at the scout car of course!. Therefore - they are best to use to your flanks to make sure that he is not outflanking you. They can cover a large area relatively quickly. So good for large maps perhaps.

The best light scout vehicles are really those with carrying capacity. Then they are fast little APCs which carry scout teams to a ridge line or whatever. They dismount these out of LOS, then the scout team crawls to the tree line, or up on the ridge line and observes. Once the enemy gets too close for comfort, retire to the ride (which has been "hiding with pride" in the meanwhile) and skedaddle. Do not expose the ride to take pot-shots - it will draw enemy indirect fire which will annoy the dismounts, and give an enemy human a clue that scouts are likely in the location.

Scout APC with a team mounted that do not move too fast (1-2 hexes or so) can spot enemy infantry outside of 50m sometimes, especially if skilled. I commonly use Bren gun carriers with scouts ahead of my main advance to spot AI infantry plonked out in the open, then hose those with the Bren. They do tend to find the enemy ATG though, but the AI often puts infantry out in plain fields with no AT assets close by. (A human player would have at least a pair of 37mm popguns inside an infantry company position to deal with any tinfoil armour).

If you are say Soviet, or just nasty use sacrificial support "penal battalion" type troops to draw enemy MG and rifle fire.
- use cheap motorcycles charging ahead of your advance
- Use cavalry. They draw enemy bullets - about the only use for them I can see! :)
- Forget about scouts, put some cheap militia a few hexes in advance of your real troops, then some scouts 150-200m behind (to observe what happens to the militia and maybe spot the firers) , then the infantry behind the scouts. Advance the militia at full speed towards the enemy. Advance the scouts and real grunts at no more than 2 hexes a turn or so once you suspect you are under observation.

If the penal battalion retreat and cannot be rallied after the enemy shoot them up, well who cares? - send another squad in. They draw the fire or trip the minefields. Simply note the area the fires came from, and plot arty. Some may rally well in the rear - motorcycles or cavalry can be brought to the front more quickly.

NB - sacrificial troops not recommended against human players, who may hold fire and/or just mortar them. Also gives a human opponent a clue that you may have some decent infantry following up and trying to be sneaky-beaky - so he will plot a belt of fires behind the convicts to catch the good ones if he has any sense..

Cheers
Andy

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

Discused previosly scout vehicles need to take up positions in cover n stay stationary with range turned down so dont fire. You get a feel for them if still in cover probably safe till about 20 hexes but you had best have an exit plan.
And yes but only in correct terrain & its not easy & often dont maintain contact move out of los to take up expected next positions while someone stays behind to monitor its a team thing

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

Maintaining contact does not mean sitting up on a ridge line and being a target. Moving enemy vehicles are easy to spot. So hide behind the ridge line, and only pop up to spot, then pop back under cover. Once the enemy are getting too close for comfort - use the speed to retire to a new observation position by going through terrain that is out of LOS.

Small fast vehicles like those are good for covering a large area of ground to ensure that the enemy is not coming your way. ie providing flank security for your forces on large maps in meeting engagements (or any type of battle which allows you to have unsecured flanks). They spot his moving vehicles - that is their main task.

But head-butting into enemy defensive positions is not their job - they will get burned. Scout cars that find an enemy defended area (by being shot at usually!) will immediately pull back and then the dismounted recce gets used. Or they wait for the arty they called in to sterilise the area, and then try advancing again of course. Or they may displace some ways and try along another side road and see if that one is held etc. But always, once any sign of enemy is revealed then they stop and observe or hide with pride. It's for other troops to take on defenders.

Recce cars are really more of a brigade or higher level operational level asset, to find out generally where the enemy is over a brigade or division frontage and especially to watch over your own flanks. SP's tactical level games have already located the enemy's general location (hint - he is on the other side of the map :)).

So a few may be useful if you plan to leave gaps in your advance that an enemy may manoeuvre round to hit you in your side or rear. Let them observe those open flanks for you, and call up your reserve if he tries it. So likely a niche item, useful on very large maps, and against a human opponent (though the AI sometimes will do an outflanking too).

Andy

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

Really estensive explanations!! Now is time to try them in real combat. Thanks for all the help.

Re: Need help finding the enemy.
 

Mobhack or Andy is our Master Guru in Steel Panthers lessons. VIVA Mobhack!!!