ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Walter's Wobblies has ended so it's time to dust ourselves off and start a new game.


General Game Information

Name of the Game - ShatnerMA (Llamaserver Link)
Type - llamaserver PBEM (Play By EMail)
Players - 5 to 9
Open To - Newbies and Intermediates
Nations - Picked on First Come First Served basis
Victory - Hold 5 capitals for 3 turns, or by vote
Invasion Thread (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...?showtopic=606)
Shrapnel Thread (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47940)

Mods
CBM Complete 1.92

Schedule - 36 hours forever.

Map - Blackwald_For_ShatnerMAv3

Age - Middle
Independent Strength - 5
Research - default
Magic Sites - default
Money - default
Resources - default
Supplies - Default
Random Events - Default (which is Common)
Re-naming - On
Score Graphs - On
Hall Of Fame - 15

Non-Agression Pacts and Deals are binding.

1) Shatner: Atlantis
2) babebibobu: T'ien Ch'i
3) Diceman: R'lyeh
4) Cowbird: Ermor
5) green cat: Marignon
6) thistlechaser: Agartha
7) Winner: Shinuyama
8) Nimeria: Jotunheim
9) triqui: Ashdod

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Recruiting)
 

There is still room for 3 more players and sign-ups from the other forum have tapered off, so I'm opening it up here. If you do decide to join this game, it might be wise to set up an account over on the Invasion boards (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php) as well so everyone can engage in PMs and keep up with the forum banter.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Recruiting, Room for 3 More)
 

Could I get in as Agartha?

Posted on the other forum as well

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Recruiting, Room for 3 More)
 

I sign as Ashdod :)

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Recruiting, Room for 3 More)
 

Alright, that's enough players. I'll update the main post and start putting map suggestions forward in a bit.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Full)
 

We have 9 players total: 7 land and 2 water. With a desired 12 to 15 provinces per player that gives us the following requirements for our map:

84 to 105 land and 24 to 30 water

Feel free to promote any maps that fall more-or-less within that range.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Full)
 

Click the map name to see an image.

Bering looks like it might fit (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39550), though I'm not sure if it has ports to allow the land nations to go from land mass to land mass.

Galadia is really nice but a bit larger than desired (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43594)

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Full)
 

Ooh, and Pangaea looks like it'd be spot on (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=32248).

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Full)
 

I am strongly leaning towards the map Winner pointed out to me, Blackwald, because it has 144 provinces - 105 land, 32 in the big ocean, and 7 in various lakes (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...?showtopic=325). That is exactly the right number of land provinces and that ocean is just the right size for two water nations. The lakes can be anyone's game since CBM 1.92 makes getting land nations underwater a lot easier.

This beat out Pangaea because the terrain is more varied and has better choke points. So, is everyone okay with this map? Do you have any other maps in mind?

Now, I've never hosted a game before and I'm unsure of what, if anything I need to do to ensure the capitals are placed more-or-less fairly. We want the land nations pretty evenly separated and we don't want either of the water nations to start in a lake. How do I do that, exactly?

Any tips from those in the know?

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Full)
 

I m ok with the map, but havent hosted either and have no clue about the process, so I can't help.

I know there are some things you can force about capitals, like having a minimum number of provincaround (it's not fun when you get a capitol in a corner with only two adjacent provinces, specially with high resources nations :(

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Full)
 

The game is created (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=ShatnerMA)! We are using a slightly tweaked version of the Blackwald map (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?c9qnz3d6494z55s) to ensure fair capital placement; a big thanks to Cowbird for writing the script to do that.

So go submit your pretenders and we'll get this game started!

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Awaiting Pretenders)
 

Attention Everyone: over on the Invasion forum some folks found an issue or two with the map so I have gone in and changed the map slightly. The game has been updated to use Blackwald_For_ShatnerMAv2. If you have already downloaded the map, you will need to download this one and use it instead. I have updated the first post to reflect this, but you can also download the map here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?sgdpa139e3nu3mx).

Beyond that, get those pretenders in (just four more) and we'll get this game going!

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Awaiting Pretenders)
 

I got an error message when I tried to get your link :/

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Awaiting Pretenders)
 

Ok, the link in the first post works for me. Sending pretender :)

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Awaiting Pretenders)
 

Because of this, I had to un-start the game. Sorry for the inconvenience but we'll get things rolling once more as soon as possible. Once the game restarts, you will have to create and send in a new turn 1 file.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Awaiting Pretenders)
 

So, remember when I said there'd be smooth sailing from here? That was a lie. During the map fixes I changed some of the sea provinces to deep sea, just to add a little variety. For some reason aquatic creatures can't enter these new deep sea provinces. Amphibious: sure. Aquatic: no. I have no idea why this is but at the moment I don't care. I have changed the map once again to contain only sea provinces, you can download the new map here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?z0jvb1nqm3n9hsn). I have also updated the first post to reflect yet another change to the map download link.

As a result I have been forced to un-start the game, again. However, since everyone's pretenders are in, I am also restarting the game. I'm really sorry for the screw-ups and repeated map downloading this game has necessitated. Maybe, just maybe, things will progress normally from here.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Hummm.
We got a stale turn, due to llamaserver troubles. Are we going to rollback? Or we keep playing from this on?

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Hummm.
We got a stale turn, due to llamaserver troubles. Are we going to rollback? Or we keep playing from this on?

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Sorry about that. Hopefully it should be good from now on.

From past experience I suggest you keep on going without rolling back, unless anyone was severely screwed. Consider it a random event. Rollbacks seem to cause a bizarre amount of confusion.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Sorry about that. Hopefully it should be good from now on.

From past experience I suggest you keep on going without rolling back, unless anyone was severely screwed. Consider it a random event. Rollbacks seem to cause a bizarre amount of confusion.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

If need be we'll roll back but I'd like to find out how many people stalled last turn. If it's most than we'll roll back.

So post here or pm me if you stalled for turn 7.


Wait, scratch that. I'm going to do a rollback. I just read over on the invasion board and the problem really was wide spread.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Turn rolled back. Please read the following warning text from the Llamaserver to make sure we don't have any snags progressing from here. One thing to note is IF YOU WERE ABLE TO SUBMIT YOUR TURN 7 THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO SUBMIT IT AGAIN, EVEN THOUGH THE GAME'S PAGE SAYS "Waiting for 2h file". THIS IS NOT THE CASE, THE GAME HAS YOUR 2H FILE. Please read below for more details.

A further reason is a difficulty with game file confusion. Imagine turn 10 has just come out, and someone starts to play the turn. Then the game is rolled back to turn 9, and processed again to make a new turn 10. Unless players delete the 2h file they produced from the original turn 10, Dominions will not know to ignore it and may get seriously confused. This can cause a lot of madness, e.g. soldiers becoming commanders and gaining magic paths, and so on. So if you do do a rollback, make sure to remind players to delete their 2h files.

Having said that, there are situations where rollbacks are called for, which is why I've included the option here.

Read this next bit carefully. I seem to be having difficulties explaining it coherently:

Note that once the game is rolled back, it will appear that the game is waiting for 2h files from all players. However, the 2h files from last time the turn was played will in fact be there, and will be used if the game hosts without them being overwritten. This can be useful; often, a game is rehosted in order for only one or two players to retake their turns, while everyone else is expected to make no changes. The game admin can therefore wait till just those players have submitted, and then force hosting. None of the other players will stale (assuming they actually submitted a 2h file last time the turn was played).

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Therefore, if you did get to play your original turn 7 (like I did), let me know. You don't have to resubmit your turn 7 if you don't want to. Once everyone else has submitted I'll force the game to host. Thanks.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

I submitted turn 7 and got the "this turn is not valid, we are in turn 8" msj.

I guess this mean I don't need to resend, so I wont. If it's needed, I can resend it, just ask me :)

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

There is only one player remaining who has neither submitted their turn nor confirmed that they don't need to. I'll host the turn after they respond.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

uops. It didn't work for me.
I got stalled :/

Well, that's life. Let's keep the thing moving on.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Atlantis extends an offer of trade to all land nations. We atlantians reside beneath the ocean and have little interest in going up on land, except to claim those provinces adjacent to our capital. As such, the trade, war and treaties between the dry nations is something we have paid little attention to. We realize, however, that the great wealth of the seas and the great bounty of the land need not be kept separate.

We would happily trade gems or gold for the crafting of a few minor items that lie outside our magical purview. Please PM us if you are interested in discussing the details.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

I have temporarily turned off Quickhost because I've received a request that someone needs to make some revisions to their turn but won't be able to for a few more hours. Since only 1 nation remains to turn in their turn, the turn might automatically host before that happens so I have agreed to turn it off for the time.

Once this is over I'll turn quickhost back on.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Fine for me.
Just to mention, I'm organizing a Manga Con this weekend. I *guess* I'll have no problem to do the turns late in the night, but it might be helpful if the quickhost is set to 48 hours, so I'll have less chances to miss a turn for a couple hours.
If not possible, there's no problem. As I said, I think I can steal an extra hour of sleep here and there and do the turn :)

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Quickhost has since been re-enabled.

As far as adding a delay to the hosting, just PM me when you are entering the "I might not make it in 36 hour turn-window" time of your weekend and I'll extend it to 48.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Just a heads up to everyone that once turn 17 goes out I am delaying hosting until Monday to accommodate two players being unable to reliably play over the weekend. Unless I hear for the need for further changes, everything will return to the normal schedule after Monday.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

I agree and I'm quite looking forward to the next couple of turns. As Atlantis, I've pretty much had my head stuck under water the entire game and have been only distantly aware of non-aquatic nations (or, in other words, the MAJORITY OF THE GAME). Since we all have a weekend break from the excitement, would people be interested in posting some updates, insights or short AARs? I understand the game is underway and you don't want to give too much away but say what you feel like you can; MP games are made all the more enjoyable by sharing the spectacle of it with others.


...News From Atlantis...
MA Atlantis is a nation with ****ty amphibious troops, decent aquatic troops/summons and awesome but seriously expensive recruit-anywhere commanders. It's like playing Pangaea but wetter and without the stealth or freespawn.

Since Atlantis is a nation of quantity over quality, we went with an awake SC pretender with horrible magical ability so we could afford halfway decent scales (the cold-3 was just for points; heat and cold don't affect income under the water). Using our rugged aquatic-only troops and our SC, our plan was to claim as much underwater real estate as fast as atlantianly possible. We then wanted to plop down a few forts in a picket formation between us and our underwater neighbor, R'lyeh and see where things went from there.

Our research has been furious and expensive (none of our mages are sacred so the upkeep is painful) but if investing in mages over troops was a bad idea, we won't have to live with the mistake for much longer. We promptly entered into a turf war with R'lyeh (I'm sure you're all shocked) which has since escalated into a death match. Both sides have some really large and/or powerful armies but there haven't been any truly major clashes just yet. It's just been a bunch of maneuvering, counter-maneuvering and territory grabs on both sides. Still, the next 2 to 3 turns are likely to have some major, major battles which are likely to determine who gets to claim ownership of the ocean. Sadly our god got caught out in the open (by a rather ill-thought out move on our part) and paralyzed long enough to be mobbed to death. We mourn the loss of Primordius but our Coral Queens will call him back into being soon enough. Just because you got killed is no reason to stop fighting!

R'lyeh has much better troops, pound-for-pound, than what we atlantians can field. They're either cheaper (lobo guard), tougher (crab hybrids) or more tactically flexible (illithids and freaky void-spawn critters) than what we've got. Also, they can field an entire functional army of troops costing only 1 resource apiece, allowing them to churn out armies almost instantaneously (provided they have the money). However, their stuff is expensive and/or requires special leadership, which helps level the playing field. We're hoping that our quantity and superior income will allow us to attrition R'lyeh into submission. We'll see.

Speaking of income, from the charts you may have noticed ours having some crazy spikes and drops in it. Twice now we have felt the need to muster a WHOLE lot of cash really quickly and so have resorted to short bursts of massive, empire-wide over-taxation. That ultimately hurts our net income (you get more money overall from not over-taxing like that) but we're hoping that the large chunks of cash upfront will pay off in the long run with our survival. Whether this proves to be a bold and brilliant play or just the over-reactions of a noob has yet to be seen.


So... what's up with all you land lubbers? The charts indicate that a lot of people are fighting. How's that working out for ya?

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Ashdod and Ermor are at war too. When the first scount went out, I found Ermor very soon.
I looked at the map, and I see no easy border between us. We are too close, and there is no clear chokepoint that can work as a defensive border. We are, thus, doomed to battle each other. As I saw Ermor has an awake god, I thought the faster the war starts, the better for me, as probably time runs in Ermor's favor.
I choosed to assault then. However, with the Rollback I stalled one turn, which ruined my attack, and after some chit-chat about possible diplomatic solutions, we finally didn't find one. There has been no big battles. Ermor has a big, concentrated, 160+ units with mage support army, while I have several different armies with a couple troops. We have been dancing around, and so far, I 've lost more troops (when his big army connect, it kills my small armies), but I've won more provinces.

My build is pretty standard for giant nations: Very big Earth and Nature bless, for high armor, reinvigoration and regeneration. Ermor has a high Astral, low earth bless.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Hey everyone. We're approaching the end of year two so I'm wondering if you guys would like the hosting interval extended. Personally I'm fine with it as is and have really been enjoying the rapid turn around but I want to be democratic about this.

So, if you do want the hosting interval extended, either post a response in this thread or PM me. If you are fine with the status quo, you can remain silent on the subject.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

The following is a message intended for all nations of the world, as sent at the behest of the Coral Council, the Kings of the Kings of the Deep, the leaders of Atlantis:

With the last gasp of the Illithid military, we, Atlantis, have earned our title as the Kings of the Deep. Having forged an empire through might, magic and cunning we feel we are now worthy of addressing the world at large, to make our intentions known to all the land dwellers.

First know that once it was clear that R'lyeh had no hope of victory, we offered the mind flayers terms of surrender. Despite the ancient feud between our races, the Kings of Atlantis would not slaughter an entire people without first extending the webbed hand of mercy. R'lyeh was a fearsome opponent who fought well but their legacy shall endure because of their wisdom, not their ferocity: in the end they chose to preserve their people over their pride. Though the warriors of R'lyeh are no more, the civilians, the old, the infirm and the repentant have been made vassals of Atlantis and now under our rule and our protection. All hail to a worthy opponent, glorious in defeat as in victory.

Having established that we are an honorable people, we wish to inform the world that we make no claim to any of the land, save those provinces adjacent to our capital. Our scouts inform us that there is bloodshed enough on the surface; we have no wish to contribute to it further. If you find our military having hauled itself up out of the water, it is only to move into the watery province on the other side; your province will be left unguarded for your immediate reclamation.

Having established that we are a peaceful people, know that we will claim every ocean province in this world; it is ours by right and by intent. We have domestic matters to attend to for the moment but in time each province will be scouted and then seized. Where these provinces are owned by the nations of the land, we will attempt to negotiate the bloodless surrender of the province through trade of gold, gems or forged items. If no reasonable deal can be made then we will seize the province by force of arms, faith and sorcery. Our patience is deep but our wrath is as fathomless as the water we rule. Those who make us their friends will find us generous. Those who make us their enemies will find us terrible.

Know that we have no stake nor interest in your dry and dusty disputes with one another. This means we can be impartial and fair in our dealings with others. There is much that our nation has to offer yet there is much it lacks so we invite all, without prejudice, to come and trade with us.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

When I send my turn I get the following message:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

llamaturns3@gmail.com
(ultimately generated from turns@llamaserver.net)
SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<llamaturns3@gmail.com>:
host gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [74.125.65.27]:
552-5.2.2 The email account that you tried to reach is over quota. Please direct
552-5.2.2 the recipient to
552 5.2.2 http://mail.google.com/support/bin/a...py?answer=6558 h46si6451568yhk.148


I think we need to put a delay on the turn until llamaserver is ok again. I'll stall otherwise.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

I have been getting the same issue. However, despite getting the same "could not be delivered" message, my turns have all made it to Llamaserver successfully. I've even had a turn host in a different MP game and I can attest that my turn was received and handled successfully.

That said, I checked the ShatnerMA Llamaserver page and your turn, triqui, hadn't been received. I went in and delayed the hosting by 24 hours (it was gonna host in 20 minutes; good thing I got up early this morning).

I have already posted in the Llamserver Problems thread so I don't guess there's much else for us to do but wait. Triqui, try and submit your turn every so often today to see if it'll go through. I've successfully submitted probably 6 MP turns since this email issue started so hopefully the double error you are experiencing is just a short-lived glitch.

Let me know if anything else crops up.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

I got the same msg in 3 different games. However, only in this one I stalled.

I think I'll go AI. Ermor was already winning, but with this, I'm completelly K.O. 2 stall turns is too much against a worthy foe.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Just so everyone knows, I'm going to temporarily extend the hosting interval from 24 hours to 72 hours starting tomorrow (Tuesday, November 22) and ending Sunday. This is to accommodate the Thanksgiving holiday season which can wreck a great deal of havoc on PBEM games.

If everyone is able to keep pace with our usual 24-hour schedule, so much the better, but I want to be sure everyone has adequate time to play their turns regardless. As always, PM me if you need any special admin-intervention.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

So, green cat (the player of Marignon) has had 5 stalls so far. These haven't all been consecutive but 5 stalls out of 30 turns is pretty high. Also, I have repeatedly tried to contact them through PMs, admin messages via llamaserver as well as posting here in the thread. I have tried to contact them to find out if they need the hosting interval extended, need short term delays or need a sub (temporarily or permanently). I have received no response from this player and, according to message tracker, my PM hasn't even been viewed.

I say all of that to give context for this question: should I go in and set Marignon as an AI/find a permanent sub for green cat? The current stalling trend doesn't (to me at least) seem acceptable but would be fine if it wasn't going to continue. However, I have received no communication from the player indicating it's going to change, despite my continued efforts to make that communication happen.

Thoughts?

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

I've sent the following PM to Diceman (R'lyeh) and Triqui (Ashdod) to see if they want to take over Marignon.

That said, if any of you know someone who wants to sub for Marignon, have them respond as well. I will give preferential treatment to previous players if they respond but otherwise it's whoever wants to fill in first.

I have also postponed hosting for another 24 hours because it looks like green cat is gonna stall again and I'd rather find a sub before letting another turn slip by.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

So, a new year... looking over it I can tell I no longer have the time needed to maintain my current glut of Dom3 games. Both work and home concerns are making it increasingly hard for me to keep pace with these games, resulting in delays, poor plays or (in a few rare cases) stalls. So, I'm going to try and find subs for me in almost all of my current games (I'm only staying in two that are either very close to a conclusion or are very low maintenance). I will continue my role as admin and will respond promptly to PM and forum posts, but I would like to promote someone still playing the game to co-admin, to ensure the smooth running of the game. Please PM me if you are interested.

Sorry for the withdraw but I don't have the time to spare and my half-assing several games won't do anyone any good.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

I have delayed the game another 48 hours. I'm hoping to find a sub for Atlantis, which takes time, and then the sub will need to get up to speed on their new empire, which takes more time. I have extended an invitation to all of the game's eliminated players but if any of y'all know someone who would be interested, feel free to invite them on my behalf.

If after 48 hours I have heard nothing from anyone then I'm thinking of letting the nation go AI. To quote Cowbird in a PM he sent me "with Sea of Ice in effect it might be interesting if you went AI. Just one tiny global holding back an ocean of bull**** while the remaining land nations duke it out could be entertaining". He makes a good point; a whole lot of money, gems and angry, angry frog people live under that ice; leave them be and you can continue your grand wars on land. Dispel the global and you'll suddenly have two more capitals you can claim but you'll have unleashed a whole lot of crazy onto the world. Whether having the Atlantis and R'lyeh capitals locked under the ice warrants lowering the number of capitals to win from 5 to 4 is something I'll leave the rest of you to decide... should a sub for Atlantis not be found.

Re: ShatnerMA Noob to Intermediate (Running)
 

Squirrelloid has been the first volunteer who was able and willing to take over what is a complex, late-game position. Many thanks for the timely subbing. I hope all of you have a good time and a good game.

Also, I'm still admin so PM me or post in the thread if you need anything. And if anyone wants to volunteer to be co-admin, please PM me.