Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

If you have a priest praying, they are considered one rank higher if they do so in a province with a temple (so an H2 praying w/temple is identical to an H3 praying w/o). Also, it takes 50 priest turns to call a god back from the dead (so 1 turn of 50 H1 priests or 5 turns of 10 H2 priests, for example). But does a priest get the temple bonus to their holy-level when calling their god back?

In other words, if I have 5 H1 priests in a province with a temple taking the "Call God" action, will it take 5 turns or 10 turns to complete?

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Pretty sure it will take 8 turns with 5 h1 priests. I don't think there is a modifier for having a temple. The call god action requires 40 holy levels, not 50.

Temples are only important for recruiting sacred units and calculating Dominion spread (as well as modifying preaching in a friendly province).

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Thanks for the response. That said, according to the Lies My Rulebook Told Me thread:
Regardless of whether a temple boosts Call God or not, the target number of priest-turns is 50.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

50 it is. Sorry. It would help if I had the correct faq saved to favourites.

I can say that none of the data regarding temples I have read mentions anything about boosting the call god action.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

I have not done a definitive test, but i've never been wrong in the number of priest turns required for a call god - in particular, my god has never come back early because there were bonus priest levels contributed that i hadn't accounted for. So temples don't seem to have an effect.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

I ran a test and with 10 holy levels worth of priests calling god from a province with a temple it took 5 turns for the pretender to return, matching the comments above.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Thanks for definitive proof on the matter, Valerius.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Sure, no problem. Btw, I didn't know about temples boosting preaching ability. I guess I should have known about that but I've never been overly concerned with learning all the ins and outs of the game. :p Have to make a note of that for next time I play Pan with cheap temples and cheap H2s.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

The temple boost to prayer is especially important if you are playing with a low Dom and either have very favorable scales or are being threatened by harmful enemy dominion. Your temples will only generate candles based on your dom but priests generate candles from praying based solely on their ranks in holy. This means that an H2 priest praying with a temple generates candles at the same efficacy as a dom-9 temple... which is much more effective than your dom-4 or dom-5 temples are doing.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Only in a friendly province?
So if I conquer a province with unfriendly dominion, stick up a temple next turn and start preaching, do I not get some kind of bonus for the preaching?

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

I (think I) got it up till there, then I lose you :( Why is the priest as effective as a dom-9 temple?

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

The boost applies in friendly, hostile and neutral dominion. While I don't have the manual in front of me at the moment, the odds of a priest successfully raising dominion are (Holy Level) * 30 - (5 * enemy dominion)... though I could be misremembering the 5 and it's actually a 10. Assuming I remember correctly, that means an H1 priest praying in neutral or friendly dominion has a 30% chance of raising the dominion in that province by 1. If that province had a temple then the priest would be considered an H2 giving them a 60% chance of success. Therefore, an H2 with a temple praying in -4 dominion (that is, the province has 4 black candles) has a 3*30% - 4*5% = 70% chance of raising the dominion in that province by 1 (which means reducing the enemy dominion in that province down to 3). Priests with the inquisition ability get to double their holy level when attempting to pray away hostile dominion (so Marignon's High Inquisitor counts as a whopping H6 when reducing enemy dom).

Also, a priest can only raise the dominion up to their 2x(holy level), meaning that H1 can't raise the dom above 2, unless there's a temple, in which case they can raise it up to 4.


To clarify, when I say a dom-9 temple, I mean a temple operating when your nation's dominion is 9 (so when you created your pretender and set your scales, you set your dom score to be 9 in this example).

Your odds of a temple generating a candle are 10*dom. If you have a dom of 1 then each temple has a 10% chance of generating a candle each turn, while a dom of 10 has a 100% chance of generating a candle each turn.

An H2 priest with a temple has a 90% chance of raising the dominion in that province making their dom-generation just as effective as a dom-9 temple (which also has a 90% chance of generating a candle).

Of course, a priest can only generate candles in the province they are praying in, whereas the candles from temples, prophets and pretenders can (and often do) "flow" into adjacent provinces.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

page 92 of the manual covers the basics of preaching, temple checks and dominions spread if you want to look into it further. There are some inaccuracies in the book regarding the 'flow' of dominion from one province to another, but it spells out the effects of holy levels and preaching, as well as the influence of temples.

Some of the guides and testing results for blood sacrifice may also be useful reading if you want to learn more about dominion spread.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

1. OK, so the poster was wrong when he said priests only boost in friendly, good.

2.
>>Also, a priest can only raise the dominion up to their 2x(holy level), meaning that H1 can't raise the dom above 2, unless there's a temple, in which case they can raise it up to 4.

Up to 3, surely? The temple +1 comes after the 2x(holy level), not before?

3.
>>Of course, a priest can only generate candles in the province they are praying in, whereas the candles from temples, prophets and pretenders can (and often do) "flow" into adjacent provinces.

Yes, I understand your clarification. I was thinking of the dom-9 flowing.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

No, the +1 bonus is to the priest's effective holy level while praying and since the maximum dom a priest's prayer can raise a province to is 2x(holy level), the +1 is multiplied by the 2x as well. In other words, for the purposes of determining prayer success, an H1 priest with a temple is treated identically to an H2 priest without a temple.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

I think the "friendly" distinction really meant "owned".
That is, a stealth preacher in enemy territory does not have his H level boosted by enemy temples.

At least I don't think so. I haven't tested that.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Ummm, pp.94--95 seems to me quite clear on this? Level 2 guy == 2 x 2 + 1 for temple == 5, not 6. So your level #1 guy should be 1 x 2 + 1 == 3?

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

LOL, no, didn't expect his temples to support our faith!

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

I never claimed that you could not preach in enemy provinces.

I said that preaching in a friendly province with a temple had a greater effect. Am I wrong?

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Its not clear to me if preaching on top of a sieged fort with a temple in it lets you benefit from the temple or not.

You cannot blood sacrifice from it (tested).

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

The confusion was whether by "friendly" you meant "owned by you" or "has your dominion in it."
Temples in provinces owned by you clearly help your preachers regardless of whether the dominion is yours or not. Temples in provinces not owned by you do not, necessarily.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Thank you for above, I agree about "friendly" distinction.

So could someone please clarify above?

• I say a H 1 + temple == maximum dominion #3 (or H 2 + temple == 5, as per manual example)
• @shatner claims H 1 + temple == max dominion #4 (or H 2 + temple == 6? which is not as per manual?)

(We both agree H 2 no temple == max #4)

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

I was wrong about the prayer bonus from the temple and JonBrave/the manual were right. It is (2xholy leve) + 1 with a temple. I recently confirmed this in an MP game I'm playing.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

I have a question about dominion flow. I know that when a temple in province X generates a candle it checks if the candle "settles" in province X (with a 10 candle dominion having a 0% chance of another candle settling there). If it doesn't settle then the candle randomly flows to an adjacent province and the process repeats itself. But is there a limit to the number of provinces a candle will try to settle in before it gives up?

Say you have a circular empire that covers 100 provinces. Say that each province you control already has 10 candles of friendly dominion but all the provinces bordering your empire have 0 candles. Now, say the only temple in your entire empire, tucked away in the very center-most province, generates a candle. In theory that candle will have to do a lot of random bouncing to reach any province with a dominion of less than 10. My question is, are we guaranteed that the candle will continue to bounce around until it reaches a viable destination or will it stop after so many attempts?

I ask because I'm wondering if the temples in the center of a large empire can still push that nation's dominion beyond their borders. I won an MP game recently where I had a large number of temples (something like 30 of them, with an effective dominion strength of 14) but it didn't feel like my dominion was pushing outward as much as I would have expected (even when I was hemmed in by enemy dominion, the odds of me lowering that dominion were, according to the formula in the manual, pretty darn good). If candles "die" after trying 5 provinces (for example) than that explains my experience. If not, I'm not really sure what was going on.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

A very brief answer:
I believe I asked or read this a while back. Although I cannot yet quote, I'm sure one answer was that it *does* make a difference to dominion spread that the temples nearest the Front help more.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

OK, the definitive is http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...pic=233&st=105.

One bit is:
"If an unsuccessful check is made, the 'wandering' candle is extinguished. (this is the complete opposite of what the manual claims)
"

That at least answers when spread *stops*. But I guess that is not the same as the nub of your question, which I think is "does it make any difference how far from the Front a spreadable candle is generated". Or does that thread address that?

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Based on the post you linked to, the answer to my question is yes. It sounds like a candle will wander through any number of provinces with friendly dominion until it finds a home or until it hits a province of enemy dominion. Once it hits the enemy dominion, the enemy dominion is reduced or not based on a check. Regardless of the result of that check, the candle is finished.

Thanks for digging that up JonBrave.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Note that the quote only applies to failed checks in a province containing enemy dominion.

If that is true, then it shouldn't matter how far from the front your temple is in your ideal situation. In a practical situation, proximity helps because it's more likely that the 'wandering' candle will reach the front you're concerned about and not the ally on your other border or just boost dominion internally.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

Agreed. There seems to be no evidence that a generated candle would ever terminate within your own "full" domain, so the centre of a ball ought be as good as anywhere.

Re: Does Temple Boost Holy for Call God?
 

P.S.
Does anyone know whether Dom 3 candle spread algorithm has been subjected to Halting Problem test? ;) Maybe it will never emerge from the ball...