RE Swedish OOB
 

http://articles.janes.com/articles/J...er-Sweden.html

Made me laugh that a machine designed for killing people can now be operated not only with a green option to help mitigate environmental degradation whilst waging war but also with the long term health risks of its occupants looked after. So much for Gen. Grant's statement that war is all hell.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...ect/pbv501.jpg

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

And the funny thing is that the were originally designed to operate in a Nuclear battlefield...

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

It is Sweden, the most politically correct and overprotective state in the world. The Socialist Utopia was never realised in the communists states, but Sweden is getting there.


Edited to add; I do NOT hate Swedes, I have many Swedish friends from Viking Re-enacting. Nor is this post supposed to demean Sweden or Swedes in any way, but it is a bit funny.

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

They seem common sense modifications. They get rid of the Sagger launcher, useless by now for all practical purposes, and get rid of some crap. No point in breathing asbestos if there is some replacement around.

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

Yeah, the launcher was the first thing we got rid in our BMPs as well, but we've added a .50cal AA machinegun on the vehicle.

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

I never thought I'd see the words 'comfortable' and 'BMP' in the same sentence.

And it was WT Sherman that said 'war is hell.' :)

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

Yep, just looked it up on wiki quote. Looks like I goofed on that one :o

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

Hey.. it happens!

In 2006, my squad worked an ECP in Baghdad with a battalion of the Georgian Army. They had found an ex-Saddam's army BMP-1, drug it into an overwatch position, cranked the turret around to face the ECP entrance, and left it. The thing was full of pigeons, and the inside walls were scribbled over with soldier graffiti, such as '1-7 Cav was here,' 'F*** 1-7 Cav,' '3-16 FA dominates,' '3-16 FA sucks a**,' ad nauseum. I remember how cramped the inside was; as bad as our Bradleys were, I'd hate to ride into a fight in a BMP.

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

Pansarbandvagn 501 (BMP-1) was bought to give infantry brigades some armoured protection and was a replacement to the Bandvagn 206/Tgb type trucks previously used.

They were intended to be used in the Arctic Brigades but then someone noticed the narrow tracks of the BMP-1 did not work very well in deep snow - so the Pansarbandvagn 401 (MTLB) was sent north and the Pbv 501 was supposed to be used in the southern part of the country, where snow depths are usually not that great. Amazing how this could not have been known, given that the Finns had much experience with BMPs and the fact that Soviet Mot Rifle Division (type) North used MTLB and not BMP.

Field trials were held and the fleet of Pbv 501 were upgraded, but only a handful were ever used by actual units, because those brigades that were meant to be turned into mech were disbanded.
Most Pbv 501 went straight into storage, spent a couple of years there and were then scraped, or sold off. A few can be found in AFV museums.

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

Are they ALL off the TO&E then ???

If they are all gone approx what year did that happen ?

Don

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

The Pbv 501? Yes, and it can be argued they were never really on it. More of a 'what-if thing' really - however at the time OOB066 was constructed it seemed like the Pbv 501, though a stop gap meassure, would have been around for some time to come.


End date 12/107 or 12/108 I guess. The last ones were sold off to the Czech Republic in 2008.

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

Don,

re: possible changes to OOB066 it might be wise to include an end date for unit 055 Pbv-401 too - the "Swedish MTLB", this track actually saw some service but has now been retired. The last ones were sold to Finland in 2011.

Also these variants of the CV90 system present in the OOB have not progressed beyond prototype stage, and probably will not ever be included in the actual organisation:

unit 049 SSG Amos DF
unit 202 Strf9040/56
unit 433 SSG 120 AMOS
unit 434 SSG 120 STRIX

Strf 9040/56 was a CV90 also equipped with the Rbs56 ATGM system.
The SSG/AMOS/Grkbv 90120 was an sp-mortar system, but project has been terminated. A self propelled battalion level artillery system is still lacking.

However, STRIX is a mortar fired anti-tank munition, that has been used since the mid 90s by the "ordinary" 120mm mortar system. It was present in earlier versions of OOB066.


The older Leopard tanks:

unit 355 Strv 121
unit 357 Strv 121

Sweden leased/bought 160 or so older, used Leopard tanks meant to be used in the three Mech Brigades (while the more modern Strv 122 was used in the two Armoured Brigades). The brigades were disbanded around 2000 and since 2002 the Strv 121 were placed in storage. Rumour (as of Jan 2012) has it that the remaining Strv 121 tanks are to be sold/scrapped but 40 or so will be rebuilt to engineer tanks/bridgelayers).

Possible new stuff, emphasis on possible:

Pansarterrängbil 360
http://www.fmv.se/Global/Bilder/Proj...oto_Patria.bmp
Built by Patria, Finland. This is the vehicle chosen to replace the dead SEP project. First deliver planned for 2012. First company outfitted with this APC to be ready 2013. The first Bn to be ready by 2014. But, we'll belive it when we see it.

Bandvagn NY/BvS 10 MkIIB
http://www.fmv.se/Global/Bilder/Nyhe...vNy_vatten.jpg

A new all terrain vehicle protected against shrapnel and small arms fire is to be introduced and delivered in the fall of 2012. They are to be ready for foreign deployment by 2013. Good luck with that.

Helicopter 16
http://www.fmv.se/Global/Bilder/Proj...16/hkp16_1.jpg

During the summer of 2010 the Swedish government decided to buy a brand new helicopter system to deal with the pressing need for medical-, troop- and materiel transport in Afghanistan.
The choice fell upon the American UH-60M Black Hawk. The 15 helicopters were delievered to Sweden in November 2011 and handed over to the army in January 2012.

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

....on the list..........

BUT..........


For next time this should have been posted as it's own thread in the OOB subforum so that when we need to find it again....... we can find it.

FYI the forum "search" is a joke. After three tries using quotes from the copy I had made to my list I finally gave up and tried Google and it came up right away. That's why this whole thread has been moved and renamed


RE I cannot find an earlier OOB with STRIX used in a regular infantry mortar but I do not have copies of all the older OOB's...... are you saying these have been available for use in the 120mm Grk m/41D since the mid 1990's ??


Don

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

Unit 67......... ???

Re: Ironically hilarious <snip> BMP-1--RE Swedish OOB
 

Don and wulfir,
In answer to the same question concerning the Finnish Army use of STRIX my ref. information pointed to 1994 usage and or availability for Sweden. I would refer you to dmnt's thread Finnish OOB 5.5, Page #3, Post #22. The video is worth a look as well.

Regards,
Pat

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

Yep, indeed. It will probably be designated Ptgb 360 in Swedish service - an abbrevation for "armoured terrain car" - but the vehicle initially thought to enter service was the SEP, but that didn't happen. Seems likely the Patria AMW/Ptgb369 veichle will really be fielded, but who knows - most of the anticipated AFV projects that were entered into OOB066 seemed like done deals, until they were suddenly scrapped.

English summary of the SEP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitte...nhetsPlattform

Re: Ironically hilarious environmentally friendly, comfortable and safe BMP-1
 

STIRX is also known as 12 cm pansarsprängvinggranat 94. It is fired by the 12cm Grk m/41D mortar system. Some online sources claims it has been used since 1994. For OOB purposes maybe 1/95 or 1/96 would be suitable. I was called up in 1996 and they were in use then.

IIRC, in previous versions, and I think this was before the windows version of the game, OOB066 had an extra set of 120mm mortars with the STRIX. It was more expensive than the regular set, had reduced HE rounds and a few AP rounds. In game terms it worked similar to weapon systems with cluster munitions, on a bit smaller scale. Acceptable IMHO, although the STRIX would not be very effective against soft tagets.

Re: Ironically hilarious <snip> BMP-1--RE Swedish OOB
 

Pat......assume I am buried in work and providing clear and concise information is the way to get info into the game as opposed to referencing to links because , quite simply, I DO NOT have the luxury of "too much" time and if I have to wade through two paragraphs of verbiage to get to the point right now I just skip it and move to something that allows me to get another issue off the list. To date I have marked nearly 1600 items "done" and there is still a considerable amount left undone.

So.... in ONE LINE what is the status of STRIX in Finnish Army use ?

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Don,
On STRIX top attack mortar round...
Sweden; Yes in 1994 for standard 120mm tube mortar and when AMOS comes on line.

FINLAND; Tested for AMOS on XA-200 platform ~2000. Can't give a 100% yes-So NO. Currently using MEHRE and have MAT-120 (2005 bought.) CARGO rounds supposedly in storage so therefore available. MAT-120 would be AMOS supported, however unknown at this time what non-HE round they will use for their AMOS systems once fielded. Of note PATRIA site reports AMOS on track for Finland as submitted in PP.

Switzerland; Does not look like deal went through though still checking.

Following two for further info on rounds above and follow up to VIKING. From 2004...
http://defense-update.com/features/d...-munitions.htm

Current VIKING ref confirms contract...
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1029.html
AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE ARE THE CONTRACT DATES AS GIVEN, STILL FEEL GOOD ABOUT FIELDING DATE FOR SWEDEN. ALSO GIVES THE UK CONTRACT DATES AS WELL (NOT IN THE GAME AS MKII.) NOV. 2008 SHOULD BE GOOD FIELDING DATE FOR UK.

Regards,
Pat

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Swedish SP Artillery:

Unit 414 Bkv 151 change end date to 12/103.
Unit 459 Bkv 151 Battery change end date to 12/103.

Maybe there is reason to change the name to Bkan 1 or Bkan 1A/C?
Bkv 151 or Akv 151 is, as far as I know the name of the prototype. The Swedish army used the name Bandkanon meaning "Tracked Gun", Bkan for short. There were two versions; Bkan 1A and the later upgrade known as Bkan 1C. The changes between these two versions are probably irrlevent for the game.

The system was phased out in 2003.


Trivia:

The Bkan was supposedly designed to be used for firing tactical nukes - but this claim is now disputed. It was initially used in two arty bn of 12 guns each, later changed (late 80s) to three arty bn's of 8 guns each.

This weapon system was a higher level asset and each gun was acompanied by an ammo carrier based on a dumper truck with good cross country capability. This was needed because the Bkan had a rather high rate of fire - it could fire 14 rounds in 45 seconds. It did not use the same type of 155mm artillery ammo as the other (towed) 155mm systems.

The guns would often operate independently, each with its own ammo carrier trailing, the idea being this would make them less vulnerable.

The were all deployed in the north of Sweden, never in the south.

Swedish tank brigades had towed artillery throughout the cold war.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Unit 417 MLRS Mine Sec...

...umm, this unit should probably be deleted. There was interest in purchasing the MLRS or a similar type weapon in the late 90s, but with the demise of the so called 'invasion defence' this never happened.

AFAIK Sweden has never had the capability to deploy mines by artillery or air.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

you mean perhaps unit 473 ???

"Unit 417" has been blank forever.

Don

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Yes, my mistake. :doh:
Unit 473 it is.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

This seems the best place to ask the following of our friends in Northern Europe while I work on some other issues in the MBT world for my last inputs for the next patch.
1. I see the STRV 122b is not in the game, and I need to verify the following...
A. I believe added armor was applied around the sides as well as the deck/floor for added RPG/IED protection. I'm thinking Oct. 2001 was when it entered service. However dates for it seem to vary from 2001-2005. Can you verify the side armor info and dates it entered service.

2. STRV 122 EVO. I know tests began in the Summer of 2010. But then the tests/news dropped significantly. Then last fall several websites/refs started reporting on it again. So...
A. Did SWEDEN buy the EVO add on armor, and
B. Is JAN. 2013 a good start date?

Thank You!

Regards,
Pat
"Working for a better equipped world all around the globe!"

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

For #1:

Seems to be after 2002. Hope this helps.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...p/t-64891.html

Some more info:

http://www.w54.biz/archive/index.php/t-357.html

Can't find anything regarding Sweden purchasing EVO though.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Thanks but, I have that info already as well. Unfortunately that's why I'm stuck on something I'd hoped would be pretty straight forward. Not wasting time on this as I have solid info on the other issues I'm trying to address. The normal guys here have local access where I don't. You'll find the equipment world the "world wide web" isn't always so world wide after all.
1. Again the 11 STRV-122b are converted STRV-122 tanks with heavier belly armor and supposedly side armor protection against RPGs. The STRV-122b was designed for ops in Afghanistan in a joint venture with Germany and later the Dutch which applied this to the LEOs they deployed there as well. I just need a good service entry date here.

2. EVO is an add on modular protection kit. Game wise as in real life think (Or see.) German LEO 2A7+ or Turkish LEO-2T. I just need to know [b]for sure[b] if Sweden bought it. Looks like they did but "looks like they did/or they have it" has bitten us in the past around here. Below shows a STRV-122 and CV-9020 with EVO installed during trails last year.
http://www.doppeladler.com/forum/vie...t=2371&p=24311
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/35969/
Not the ref I was seeking but the first does show the STRV-122b with what appears to be the EVO package.
Have to get ready for work!!!!

Regards,
Pat

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Looked at the clock wrong so I have a few minutes before getting ready.
1. That should read in the previous post as CV-9040 vice 9020.
2. I believe with the next ref I was seeking posted below and the German site (Ref. 1 OF LAST POST.) the Swedes did buy the EVO package in a photo comparison of the two and others. So that puts EVO back to at least to 2007/2008.
3. From what I can find the STRV-122b is still a separate issue from some refs as the STRV-122b EVO being an "all-in-one" item. From what I can tell the EVO package is a separate and later addition. I might have to PM a couple of folks from this thread later after the main items I noted are addressed first on the list.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...d_0706121.html

Regards,
Pat

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Sorry I couldn't find any more. Even the manufacturer website is no help.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnUMTI07_cY

7:50

Sweden is still considering installing AMAP as of 2011.

http://www.tanknutdave.com/component/content/article/63

In a recent study program (late 2010) of the tank for the Swedish Defence Material Administration (FMV) in Sweden, IBD Deisenroth Engineering succeeded in the development of a further improved protection dedicated to the tank. The concept is thereby designed to protect against the actual and future threats in theatre, especially in asymmetric and urban warfare. Despite the improved overall protection level of the MBT122 Evolution, the weight increase of about 350 kg is only minimal such maintaining the high mobility of the tank. IBD Deisenroth Engineering announced on 30.05.2012 that the MBT122 protection studies are still ongoing.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

I can't imagine EVO being anything other than an upgrade of the existing tank. I doubt they're going to buy an entire fleet of new model Leopard 2A6/7 equivalents just for an armor package. But yes, you always have to make sure.

Sorry if this is annoying but I found something that might be useful.

http://forum.soldf.com/topic/11317-leopard-3/page-2

Swedish military forum. No mention of the Strv 122B before 2004.

Google translate:

STRV 122B used by GU Bat P4 2004-2005
It was not so popular due to the turret bustle, but clearly the car I'd like to sit in if you drive on a mine.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

I to had gone on a couple of Swedish military forums and with what I have already. I'm confident of the following..
1. I will ADD/SWEDEN/STRV-122B/JAN 2003//It will have better IED protection however Don makes those calculations. Most importantly side armor add on protection as well. I've seen enough from different sites now that the Swedes and Spanish have the best protected tanks in their class of LEO's they operate. This might cause a second look for both against the benchmark German LEO's of the same "origin" type, i.e. the STRV-122/B models are spall lined throughout the whole tank and top turret is more armored then any other LEO with maybe the exception of the LEO 2A7+. The ref below is representative of many and is an excellent source and also covers this para completely.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

2. As I've said earlier EVO is an add on armor type using nano protection processes,you'll see this on LEO 2A7+, ARJUN II,
T-90AM/MS and ARMATA among others. This allows for better protection then most ERA systems, is much lighter and has little affect on size. Anyway Swedes apparently later this year for EVO. For tanks see pages 14-17. Ref covers the whole Swedish Military.
http://ointres.se/2012-02-21_Lindstrom_IAV%202012.pdf

I intend to go off line to finish the tank issues :pc: before the end of this weekend to post it. So for Don...Update as follows...
A. USA/AH-64E PKG/DONE.
B. USA/MIA2 SEP V2/DONE.
C. TANZANIA/TYPE 59G/DONE.
D. SWEDEN/STRV-122B/80%/EVO PKG TRACKING FOR NEXT YEAR.
E. INDONESIA/LEO 2A6 (GERMAN)/65% REFS IN PLACE/HAD TO PICK REPRESENTIVE LEO, BASED ON PRICE PAID AND UNITS ORDERED (NOW UP TO 105.) WILL RECOMMEND GERMAN UNIT 033. LOOKED AT 034 AND 035 TO NEW, ADVANCED AND COSTLY BASED ON SERVICE DATES. TOTALING RULED OUT IN SERVICE TYPES IN ADVNCE.
F. IRAN/ZOLFAGER/35%/HAVE UPDATES ON ALL TYPES/WILL RECOMMEND DELETE OF ZOLFAGER 2/ADD ZOLFAGER 3 WITH NEW FCS COULD BE TI/GSR 40(?) WITH ASSOCIATED ADJUSTMENTS.
G. SOUTH AFRICA/OFILANT/15%/LOOKING AT MAIN GUN TYPE ISSUES/DELETION OF 1 0R 2 UNITS AS THEY WERE NOT PUT INTO SERVICE.

Wasn't shouting above, was in caps and just wanted to finish. Btwn life and work, I'll be done here and other places until I post this.
Everyone a good night, who am I kidding, have a good morning!?!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Some notes on the Swedish OOB:
- Units 306, 307, 308, 309 (SAAB A 21) have Fire control 15... that seems excessive for a WWII-era aircraft with no special equipment.
- Units 313, 314, 315, 316 (A 32 Lansen) should have at least some EW capability. They had an RWR built in and often carried chaff pods.
- Units 317, 318, 319, 320 (J 35 Draken) on the other hand should have EW 0, they had no RWR or jammers. They should probably be Uncommon or Rare in the ground attack role.
- Units 321, 322 (Sk 60B) should not be Uncommon, in fact they were the most likely to be used for CAS.
- Unit 323 (AJ 37 Viggen with rockets) should not be Rare.
- Unit 325 (AJ 37 Viggen with bombs) should have the same fire control value as the other Viggen variants. It should not be Rare, there were huge stockpiles of these bombs. Also, the AJ 37 could carry up to 16 120 kg bombs, not just 4.
- There was a fun variant of Unit 303 (SAAB B 18) called T 18. It had two 20 mm guns and a 57 mm Bofors autocannon with 40 rounds, 100 rpm. Intended for use against landing craft and small ships, perfect for a "Defend the beach" scenario. Available from 1/47 to 12/57.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

on the list.........

HOWEVER

The "rarity" factors although used to indicate generally if a unit should be used more or less or at all by the game also are used to direct the AI to pick a wider selection of units .

When the AI buys a unit it starts looking for one at the END of the list and works back to the start of the list and sometimes we make high numbered units rare just so the AI doesn't buy only the first thing it finds.

So I will take the info about rarity under advisement but that is all. Rarity ONLY affects how the AI picks an OOB's units as an OPPONENT and getting that adjusted isn't an end user issue.

Don

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

Thanks Don, I did not realize how the rarity was used.

Re: RE Swedish OOB
 

As well, you wrote


At the time I didn't look at the OOB.....I just did, the radio code is 92 for both ----------2 = common NOT "rare" . Rare would be 91

AS WELL........Unit 325 is a LEVEL BOMBER and level bombers DO NOT use FC

Don