Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

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This thread is meant to be a running commentary on scenario/campaign design. It is not intended to be the syllabus of such, rather the running list of interesting points as viewed by a Beginner at Scenario/Campaign design who has experience playing with the WinSPXXX engine as a player.

Any feedback is highly welcome!

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

Lesson 1) Map Editing

Arguably, the most important part of building a scenario or campaign. The lesson here is this...

Once the map is built and you buy units to place on the map...

ANY change later in the map causes ALL unit placements to be removed!

You can not build a map, buy units, place units... decide that some tree, or hill needs to be removed. You can not even later decide that you want Map Text Notes without every unit placement being invalidated. ANY edit to the map invalidates unit placement!

The lesson here is this, build the map, buy a single squad of infantry, move them around the map checking LOS for those wonderful Anti-Tank traps and FO spotting, etc. Take notes about which trees, hills, etc need to be removed/increased. Decide on which, if any, text notes you want to place on the map ahead of time!

Build the map. Test it with A0 or 1 squad of infantry for LOS. Add the text notes you want. Only then can you proceed!

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

2) Once you buy the initial units for the scenario it becomes at best tedious that you do not alter the number of formations after the fact.

After initial testing you might decide that this side or that side is too powerful. Deleting any formation out of Player 1 (Human) will cause a strange shift in placement on the map and even observed changes in the number of "A0 command units" in Player 2. Multiple exits and re-boots of WinSPXXX might clear this oddity except for this strange fact...

The OpFire/AI artillery (AI artillery assumed but not yet proven) routines will direct fire at the unit with the lowest ID. This is assumed to be the A0 unit (and B0, C0, C1, etc). However, having deleted Player 1 Formations after initial testing all indexes shift up and perhaps beyond their initial pointers. Such that you could have in the index A0, D(stuff), B(stuff), ZY(other things that were deleted earlier but are now here)

NOTE: Clever designers could probably exploit this... make a force, delete some stuff... add some more back and the unit Index would be high enough to force the AI to fire at it rather than anything else preferentially.

END NOTE: Unless you wish to intentionally exploit the OpFire and AI Artillery routines... do not delete formations at all. Change them all into 1 pt formations and set them on the map edge.

Other amusing side effects are the "units with no location" aka Aux units as passengers pushed out to the last known "Fixed" location on the map or just left out in the water.

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

3) Passengers on a Transport are not hidden from the AI fire routine!

A0 can be on transport CZ99. If it can be fired at by an AI unit preferentially it will. This is not apparent normally but becomes so if all possible targets are visible to the AI with roughly similar targeting chances.

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

4) AI artillery routine fires at first valid target. Then it adjusts!

While it is uncertain what the initial valid target happens to be this much is certain... given above preferential treatment to anything the AI sees as the "A0" target. While designing set pre-fire targets... set those targets at least N-1 turns!

The AI will fire upon the A0 if it doesn't have anything to target, B0, C0, D0, etc are also acceptable. It will do this even in the face of 50 other units that it can see and ignoring FOs which have better artillery abilities.

If you drop pre-fire artillery around the map the AI will adjust it as possible. Preferentially, toward the A0 unit but then toward anything close enough.

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

5) It is hideously important that any decision to change a unit type adheres to unit class! Changing a infantry scout units weapons will not change its basic scout desire to only fire at range 1!

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

6) Initial facing is vastly important! The AI will NOT ever alter a units facing! EVER! Until it has detected an attack! Such that a rifle unit 11 hexes away FACING a sniper directly (as in very directly) has a good chance of detecting the sniper if it has a facing just 2 or 3 hexes away from direct of the sniper it probably will not detect.

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

7) If you want your Air Strikes to hit anything be careful! We have SEAD, COIN, and normal airstrikes already which indicates preferential treatment to targets found.

Not so obvious is the attraction towards newly (destroyed/created) crews which will draw most of the airstrikes.

Equally, not obvious is this... DO NOT EVER USE Ammo units for your artillery, mortars, SAMs for AI purposes. Airstrikes zone in on them preferentially as well as new units of crews which have a formation ID of the probably same Formation ID.

Dispersal of the airstrikes is likely ineffective with recommended 5 or 6 range as suggested.

Given previous comments vis a vis clear LOS Forward Observers... doesn't seem anything will change this at all. Best results are to arrange Airstrikes 1 turn at a time without any above clutter obfuscating things (no other possible targets within 500m/10 hexes)

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

8) We could for a moment talk about the randomness in the results of the AI. It will only actually take a moment.

It is not random at all and it isn't an AI. Top down target selection with Artillery, Airstrikes or Guns preferentially isn't random.

OOB designers: Please note Place Scout and Size 1 Scouts at TOP not bottom of formations! Size 1 Jeep at B1 is better than any scout jeep at Z1 which is where you all like to place them!

They will preferentially draw fire from artillery, opfire, and airstrikes. Even better if they are Crewed

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

9) OOB designers note...

Using a Mech Infantry Formation that has...
B0) Inf
B1) Transport
C0) Inf
C1) Transport
(ETC ETC ETC) is not cool!

In every case... if the formation is an Infantry unit and B0 is an Infantry unit B1 should be an infantry unit as well! B1 should never be the AFV/APC! Those units have bad Infantry command skills and set a situation where a APC with Armored command has CO over an infantry unit!

Infantry
Infantry
Infantry
APC
APC
APC

The above is the format since more or less few of you thought about the formations vis a vis unit losses in a Campaign.

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

10) Waypoints? What waypoints?

Seriously, do not bother! Armored cars, Scouts, some helos don't even pay attention (this is the part we know). If it isn't on map on turn 0 they might still not pay attention. If Pyro is not your drinking buddy to repeat endlessly what he learned almost certain fail.

Seriously, and on this one since... it involves code and is an ancient change. Giving us 125 possible useless changes as opposed to 10 isn't actually useful! What would be nice is some system where I click'they'go! Something lacking in my desire to get Scout Helos to actually advance... to you know... Scout.

Comments about Scout class behavior etc etc etc... invalid.

If I click it should go. The end!

Also doing @#$% math to move reinforcement Turn NOT ZERO waypoints around... also #@$%in useless!

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

Scouts, Armored Cars, and other "scout class" units are known to ignore waypoints the first turn of a scenario and bee-line toward the nearest non controlled VP hex.
Starting turn two they will (generally) follow any waypoints set for them IF they haven't spotted anything turn one.

........which is why "beginners" shouldn't write how to ( or not how to ) use features in the game until they are experienced.

Yes, waypoints are a quirky black art that can be frustrating to use but they have been mastered. Yes, a simple system would be desirable but there are always 50 code issues MORE IMPORTANT to do every time we build a patch but there's a reason the game throws waypoints out the window when something more "interesting" occurs on map and if it didn't people would complain about that too.



Don

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

This is something that is being checked but there are over 16,000 formations in the game and there is no way to find them without checking each one manually as there are simply too many different ways for a platoon .....( the problem exists mainly in platoons )....... can be "wrong" to automate the process to zero in on the ones that are borked so it has to be done one by one by hand.

The US OOB has a number of them, some nations have very few like this. Given the number of formations to check this may take a couple of patches to find them all but we are endeavoring to ensure the most commonly used OOB's have been checked for this next patch


Don

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

On one hand it is a way for other "beginners" to become aware of some of the pitfalls they'll have to negotiate when they venture into scenario design.
On the other it does bring a smile to my face as I recall running face-first into many of those same pitfalls.

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

Don... this isn't a howto... It is kind of a running guide of the issues confronting a beginner. Things that I wish I knew before I started.

I mean seriously in some post on these boards Suhiir mentions figuring out how to set waypoints for a unit arriving as a reinforcement after Turn 1 but after that the thread goes kind of silent.

And apologies... I know the waypoint code must be horrific not the least of which problem would indicate that it leads the XYzero unit to be in front... but being a newb at this all I want is a unit/formation to move where I want it went I want it and to stop when bad things start happening and resume when bad things have died or they have. It is literally the number one issue facing me while designing a scenario.

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

Since we're dealing with your typical brain-dead AI here (and this is NOT a slur of WinSPMBTs AI code, just a "fact" about ANY games AI) it seldom does what you want as it can only do what it's programmed to do.

In the case of move ==> Fight ==> resume movement it will do that ... sorta.

A formation set with 10 turns worth of waypoints (30) for movement but on turn 6 (after using 18 of the 30) it gets attacked. It takes 3 turns for it to eliminate the threat, 3 turns the AI continues to check off waypoints ... so when it resumes movement on turn 10 rather then heading to waypoint 19 it attempts to go to waypoint 28, the 1st of the 3 waypoints it is programmed to follow on turn 10.

That help?

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

Waypoints were never intended to be more than a way to point formations in a general direction until contact with the enemy and are the perfect example of battle plans that work fine until first contact with the enemy and that is as far as anyone should expect them to work. Anything more than that and you are left wondering why your Fiat 500 won't do what a Ferrari does on pavment and HMMWV off road..because it was never intended to do that.

In the above example the "AI" will attempt to catch up to the point it's "commander" expected it to be on turn 10 the quickest way it can do that. DO NOT blame it for taking shortcuts becasue it's "following orders" and those orders are "on turn ten be HERE"

Bottom line is if you push the envelope don't complain when it doesn't work but DO experiment with it becasue you might find you can push it to do something you CAN use and that's why we increased the number of waypoints it will accept. It works great as a random patrol route for example or moving through terrain where contact is not expected to get into the enemy rear areas but DO NOTexpect it to execute your battle plan to turn 65. NOT going to happen and it was NEVER intended to do that




Don

Re: Adventures in Campaign Building by a Beginner
 

I find waypoints useful.

It is possible to make AI formations move where I want them to, broadly speaking. AI formation left without waypoints will in many cases take some other route.



And before it comes up; it is possible to make parts of the AI force conduct movements, spoling attacks etc while other elements defend - and it is possible doing so without changing their movement ability, i.e. making them imobile.