A couple of questions from an old noob
 

Alright, so for the third year in a row, I'm trying to learn how to play this game. I've only just signed up for my second mp game, so I've mainly been playing single player. I have a couple of questions, although most of them are not very specific I'm afraid. Hopefully, someone will be able/willing to help out anyway. :)

1) One of the reasons I'm having a hard time learning Dom3 (I think) is the sheer amount of options. While there are usually at least a couple of spells and items that I want, and try to aim to get, most of it is usually too specific to be of any immediate use to me (while some spells/items seem almost useless). With spells, I can at least look through the lists of the different schools, and use those to plan ahead, but with items, I can only see the ones that my guys can currently craft, and with a nation like T'ien Ch'i, I almost have to check each one of my mages, because their picks are so diverse.

This wouldn't be such a bad thing, if only I knew (and could remember) what all the items do. Usually, I'm looking for some specific effect (like invigoration, for instance), and end up having to look through all the stuff each one of my mages can craft, only to finally realise that no one can craft such an item. I know I can just read through all the descriptions in manual, but really, that's 24 pages (it doesn't sound so bad, but this is each time I want an item, plus some of the items have been changed in the CBM mods). Is there some easier way, or am I just stuck doing this, until I can remember all of it by heart?

2) As a small follow up (and what brought on this thread), is there an item that grants invigoration? I'm trying to experiment a bit with some thug builds, and reinvigoration seems kind of important. Also, I'd love add some etherealness, and was considering Robe of Shadows, but that would mean almost no protection. Can anyone suggest an alternative? If anyone has any suggestions for good go-to equipment for thugs, I'd love to hear them.

3) I've never actually been in a proper end game, because I was killed of in turn 40-something, in the only mp game I've been in, and I usually get bored before the end game, when I play sp. As a result, I don't really know what I should be aiming for, and I generally don't have a long-term strategy beyond getting access to rings of sorcery/wizardry, and some nice battle spells. I've seen plenty of posts mentioning how important it is to plan for the mid- and end-game, but I'm not sure how. What is it I should be trying to do? Getting SC's in the end-game? Thugs in the mid-game? I just have no idea, and I'm afraid it will show in my next mp game. Maybe I should try reading some AAR's, instead of all the guides I've been reading, but good Dom3 AAR's are sursprisingly difficult to find (I don't doubt that there's a bunch on these forums, but they must be buried somewhere in the mp subforum).

Thanks guys. I hope someone can help.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

It might help for you to make a list that you can refer to of items that give you the effects you want. So say you want items that grant reinvigoration. You have boots of the messenger (nature 1), amulets of resilience (nature 2), girdles of might (earth 1), and rainbow armor (air 1&nature 1, also gives magic resistance). Hopefully you will eventually learn the items on the list, or if not you'll at least have that handy reference to refer to. There's also forging references that have been made, but given that they don't tell you what the item does they may not be too helpful to you.

Reinvigoration is definitely very important for any thug that has encumbrance. As for ethereal, ethereal robes are usually best reserved for earth mages who can cast invulnerability or the like. Then they can have protection AND ethereality. Aside from robes there's just wraith crowns and artifacts to grant ethereality, and wraith crowns aren't generally good SC gear due to creating masses of skeletons that can cause lone SCs to rout. Another option instead is just to bring a low level astral mage along to cast body ethereal on your thug. Generically good SC gear would be along the lines of - an AoE weapon, shield of gleaming gold or vine shield, amulet of antimagic, luck pendant. Helms, armor and boots tend to be less generically appliable, and most times helms aren't necessary. The most generic boot slot item is probably boots of the messenger for the reinvigoration, followed by winged boots.

The last bit would require a bit more in depth of an answer than I really want to get into right now, and depends a lot on your nation. But in general you do want to have thugs in the midgame and SCs in the end game, but if that's all you have that won't be enough.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

I learned by posting lots of scouts in MP games and watching what others do. So set up a big scout network and learn from your allies and enemies.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

Etherealness on thugs/sc's isn't worth the usage of one slot. usually when you get it there are easy counters for it.

Leave eth on the troops that already have it. But don't use items for it. (iirc they are overpriced anyway).

The Something awful board has some AAR's but these can be hard to find, and the SA forum tends to go black for non paying visitors.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

What are your 2 slots best reserved for?

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

I'm big fan of the Rainbow armor.

Good stuff...

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

Miscellaneous slots?
I almost always use a Pendant of Luck in one.
The other varies with expected opposition. Often Rings of resistance. Or Ring of Regeneration. Or Amulet of Anti Magic or, or, or .......
I'd really like a helmet of Luck, to free up one misc slot. Lucky coin could be used, but then I almost always use the Vine Shield there.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

Well... it depends. (I know, sucky answer). But it depends on the enemy. Usually I go for resistances. (Rainbow armor is also nice, but the paths + gems can be hard to get at times). I also happen to like the rime hauberk. 200 cold res and an aura just to mess with non cold immune units a bit.

Otherwise, a shroud of the battle saint is nice if you have a good bless.

But the eth cloack has one big downside, it removes the already existing armor of the unit.

Look at this: http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Gearing_Thugs_and_SC%27s for more info.

Regarding misc slots:
+mr is always good. (Stops a lot more mind hunts). And luck also works, but you also want more resistances etc. So, once again, it depends. Vs the AI, I would not know, +mr isn't needed much then anymore.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

Thanks for the tips, guys. I especially like the idea of starting my own items reference document, which will hopefully help me memorize some of this stuff.

Does nobody have any suggestions for overall strategies? It doesn't have to be too specific, I'd just like an example or two, to get an idea. Otherwise, maybe someone who knows of a good AAR or two, could link it here? I've tried the SA forums, but I don't have archive access, unfortunately, so that's no good. I did find one very good and detailed AAR here, but I'd like more, if anyone knows of any.

Thanks again, guys.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

This was written for a beginning player trying to get a handle on the game.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39360

I wouldn't advise you to take this into a multiplayer game, but it will get you thinking.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

Here is a broad strategy that perhaps you can specify to a given game:

Spread scouts over the whole world. When you see a war going on, and especially when you see sieges, move scouts into the contested areas so you can watch the battles. In this way, learn what units, items, and spells everybody is using, and what territories they have. If one of your enemies has been at peace with everybody for so long that you don't know what resources they have or, much more importantly, what skills they have, then attack them until you've found out.

Now that you know what armies there are in the world, decide which ones pose danger to you. Try to identify one that you think you can't beat. Then, look through the spells and items and try to find a combination of them that will let you beat that army after all.* If you can't find one, try to figure out how you can develop your nation so as to gain one. Then, execute your plan, see how well it works, and learn.

Somewhere in here, you can start thinking about not just the armies you see, but the armies that are hidden from you (but whose existence you suspect). And you can make guesses as to what armies a given nation+player will field in the future. Then you can come up with plans to counter these hypothetical armies just as if you'd seen them.

This is my style. It's not the best way to win any given game but it's a reliable way to increase your understanding and skill. If you want to know what the end game will look like and how you must prepare for it, you can't get that from this kind of advice. But maybe it's better to work it out for yourself; the only price is that you'll lose some games along the way. But you'll probably do that anyway. In a free-for-all game that isn't usually played 1v1, almost everybody will lose.


*To my mind, figuring out how to use your current nation to beat one enemy force controlled by one player is much easier than answering the much greater question of what general strategy is good for "the end game" against any nation controlled by any player.

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

Thanks Banadine, that's good advice. Although the scout thing does seem to be hinging on getting a scout province or two (or building less mages). I'll definitely keep it in mind, though.

@SsSam: Thanks for the guide. To be honest, I think I read it about a year ago, when I was trying out Pythium, but I very much appreciate the way it goes into specifics in the later stages of the game. Most guides I've read are much more vague (although that's not necessarily a bad thing, obviously).

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

You can usually get a source for more scouts by building a new fortress, too... of course that's costly in itself. But information is very important!

Re: A couple of questions from an old noob
 

Yeah, I know, but I'd like that fort to churn out mages. :D

I guess not all nations have equal access to non-capital mages, though, in which case a scout fort would be a good idea. Also, I suppose most early forts will probably have at least a few turns to build scouts, before the temple and lab comes online.