CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Besides the many ideas I have for using the scenario commands (which I may start posting after release when we have an official forum someplace)
Here are some ideas I had just from looking at the game setup menu. Some theme games people might want to play.

Here is the class (nations) options so far in the game..

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandalf/CoE3/gc.JPG

and here are the AI levels. Jester is the default and considered to be human level (no bonuses, no minuses)

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandal.../AI_levels.JPG

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

The Baron class is probably the easiest for new people to grasp. Its rather like Ulm or MA Man in Dom3. Knights, spearmen, swordsmen, pikes, archers, crossbowmen, catapult. So how about starting off with a game of all Barons playing in the Agriculture age?

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandalf/CoE3/g0.JPG

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

For an interesting solo game using the skills of Kristoffer for providing a feel for ancient nations, lets try the Barbarian Hordes against the Roman Empire? The Senator nation as an AI on its most difficult setting while human players are all allied against it. Or, some of the Barbarian nations could be set to AI. One human barbarian nation allied with 6 AI barbarian nations. The AI does play well enough to make that fun also.

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandalf/CoE3/g1.JPG

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Both the Troll King and the Bakemono make extensive use of goblins as spearmen, archers, shamans, etc. I think that a mighty Troll King with many lesser level Bakemono nations swearing allegiance would make a very interesting game. The Troll King can be set at Baron (slightly boosted) and the Bakemono all set at just human level. If switches such as ClusterStart and CommonCause are turned on then it would be even more interesting. The Common Cause makes it harder to knock out enemy nations one at a time. And the Cluster Start would cause the game to place allies near each other. So all of the Troll/Bakemono would be at one end of the map, with you at the other.

I thought that the human playing the Baron nation of knights, pikes, longbows, crossbows, and catapults would be thematic but of curse any nation would work. Dwarf Queen against Troll King is fun also.

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandalf/CoE3/g2.JPG

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

How about two humans playing each other? Each can have 3 AI allies.

Druids and Witches together? Both summon creatures. Druid is more foresty and witches more swampy but both create very interesting armies.

Warlocks and Enchanters on the other team? Warlocks create elementals. Enchanters are mostly a large variety of golems.

I dont think I would Cluster Start this game. The 4 nations on each team overlap resource needs too much. Better to scatter out so that everyone can start off by claiming the resources near them to get a firm start.

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandalf/CoE3/g3.JPG

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Or two humans getting the squeeze? On one side is the alliance made up of Necromancer, Demonologist, and Witch. On the other side of the humans is High Priestess, Priest King, and High Cultist. Humans can play anything or let the random choose for them. Im thinking that Baron and Burgmeister make a great alliance. Or two Burgmeister nations. Or Troll King with Dwarf Queen make great allies.

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandalf/CoE3/g4.JPG

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Do you begin to see some of the game variants this game supports already? And more to come!

Feel free to ask if you want more info on why I feel some nation combos work better as allies than other combos. Or any particulars of one of the nations.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

There are some very good ideas here, thanks for the exemples Gandalf.

I'm curious about what ressources are needed by the Warlock exactly ?

Also, what armies starting with no caster get to have one later (or some other form of upgraded commander that is not a direct upgrade of your starting commander like the lich or vampire) ?

I already know that the Troll king can get his Mom, but it's linked to a random event chain, so you probably cannot get her every game I suppose ?

Also, does some non mage commanders get ritual like abilities too ?
Those rituals are some of the part that I like the most from what I see of the game and I wonder if I will find the warrior-types as fun to play as the mage.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

A) the Warlock uses gems which he can find in iron mines, silver mines, gold mines, and even coal mines. A varied number but basically its like a coal mine gives 1 gold, 1 iron, and 1 gem of random type. Different types of gems are needed for different rituals and different elementals. A Gold mine tends to grant more in all 3 things. Nations who cannot use gems will not find them in mines.

B) I think all armies get casters. Some at start and some showing up later. At least some mage mercs can be hired. At that point the "knowledge" of the resources springs up so if its gems, all mines suddenly show gem content and start providing them. If its herbs then all units in the armies (not just that mage) will suddenly start claiming the forests they walk thru and build up a treasury of that.

C) Actually the Troll King always gets Mum at some point fairly early in the game. But he only gets one. However he can hire Goblin shamans, and the more power goblin witchdoctors, who can do a small bit of what Mum does. And he gets access to Troll shamans and Troll witchdoctors. The Troll Witchdoctors can do pretty much all of what Mum does. Including the very important turning of forests into Troll Forests.

D) there is equipment in the game. Swords, amulets, lamps, bottles, rings. They can reproduce spell effects and even summons during combat. Such as, giving your Baron a lamp will allow him to call forth a large Air Elemental during the first round of combat.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

The gem income from mines is not that straightforward. Coal mines provide 1-2 gems. I don't think I've ever seen a coal mine provide 3. Iron mines, silver mines and gold streams all provide 1-4 gems, with 1 and 2 gems being most common, 3 being rare and 4 being very rare. There are some special sites that also provide gems, but just two so far that I remember.

As far as non-mage rituals, the Pirest King's Tribal King commanders can slave hunt. The Burgmeister can turn farms into Hoburg villages (goes from 1 gold to 3 gold and 1 weed) and baron and high lord can raise levies.

Everything else ritual wise is by mages or other special commanders, but mercenary mages are available for hire for everyone. Many classes have class specific special mages in addition to the standard list.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

I like the sound of that one... good idea. I really want to play a large co-op game against the AI. Problem is that when the game is released is when I'll be most busy :(

By the way Gandalf, when you say a class is set at "human level" I've inferred that this means AI set to Jester?

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

I think that a game like that would be fantastic in an IRC channel or using player-mics like a VoIP conference call. These games play at a fast pace and the chatter would be as much fun as the game. Not as hectic as a real-time shooter. Slow enough for all the commenting you want to make but fast enough to not have any boring waits.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Just an observation, the dwarf queen has the largest sprite. :)

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Depends on what you mean by largest :)
On that screen it looks like she and the Troll King about about the same height but She has more girth

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Is there going to be an option for SP (or maybe even MP) where you can adjust the resources for a human player like you can for the AI? It would make it a lot easier to test out different strategies.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

There is in the scenario commands. Im hoping someone might make a tutorial map with added starting resources.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

These are some cool ideas.

I'd like to ask about AI. I noticed that most AARs here tend to use the Knight level (level 4). As far as I understood, the Jester level (level 2) is the non-cheat level. How competent is the AI at the Jester level? Is it too easy so that you have to use the 4th level?

The reason I ask is I like playing SP and I absolutely hate cheating AI (on the other hand I don't reload saved games either). I'd like to be on equal footing with the AI. Do you think we'd be able to have challenging games at the Jester level?

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

It depends on what you mean by cheating.
The AI does get a percentage boost to its resources. However it does not seem to know the whole map or have any non-player information.

As for the Knight thing, the people doing the AARs have been playing this game continually for months. Our challenge level that we have to work hard to beat has gone up two small steps. And even then, I only play with an equally high AI partner.

The later levels of AI make huge jumps in its bonuses. I think it will be a LONG time before I consider playing at those levels.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Yeah, I do consider resource advantage cheating. But at least you're not playing at the most difficult level which a lot of people can do for most games. I guess I'll just have to play and see.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Play against Emperor AI in CoE3? Bwaaaaahahahahaaaaa! Good luck with that for anyone who tries without having several allied players. Even at Knight level some of the AIs tend to amass enough troops to steamroll you. Take the Senator. Class bonus is 50% gold and 50% trade bonus, then tack on the AI bonus of 50% and you'll be drowning in legionnaires in no time. The Emperor AI has a 500% gold and resource bonus, so...

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Thanks for all the information Gandalf and Edi, your work is appreciated, and I can't wait to try the game. ^_^

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Yeah thats why the only variant I posted using emperor was "everyone attack the Emperor". :)
and even then I would think it would take great players and lots of coordination

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Tourist Game
Or maybe another tutorial to try when you first get the game. If you want to just WATCH a nation play then you can do this..

Make sure that the settings include Cluster Start and Common Cause

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandal...t_settings.JPG

And then setup a "team" of you as human player, and the AI you want to watch (or another human player I guess with a server game).

http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Egandal...rticipants.JPG

Start the game, and simply march your commanders to their deaths against the nearest independents. With Common Cause turned on it means that no one loses if a team member is still active. So you can continue to just hit END (or y ) to keep the turns happening, and watch your teammate play out the game. It makes for an even FASTER game. You cant watch battles but you can view units. I can definitely see where that might be fun to do for a few times when you first get the game.

I chose Druid because it doesnt bring anything to the game. The capital is just a hut, and it gets one village. So the High Priestess didnt gain anything by my starting near her and leaving. I named my druid null so each time I hit y I got "null's turn" as my prompt :)

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

I just played a couple of games against one Emperor Senator, and I was allied with 6 Jester level (no pluses) AIs. It went much better than I thought it would.

I was surprised. Then I realized that the 500% bonus for Emperor and the 100% bonus for Senator doesnt do much until they get some resources. In the beginning of the game he was about equal to to us.

The AIs did pretty good. I took an Enchanter. That way I could walk thru my partners areas, create necrotods everywhere they fought, and occassinally steal one of their mines to turn into a golem.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

What's the society settings for?

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

From what I understand, it sets the map global style : in the empire society for exemple, you should get many towns and cities, and have fewer mystical creature roaming the land and more humans.

In the society of the fallen empire, battlefields should be more numerous, as well as undeads or other dark creatures released/created during the fall of the empire, and the Empire capital can be found occupied by powerful undeads or other creepy creatures (in a AAR, the capital was occupied by creatures from the void)

In the agriculture society, you're supposed to get many famrs and small village, but few forts or cities.

And so on ...

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

From a powergamer viewpoint some ages are more desirable if playing certain classes.

For example the early age that has fewer farms and towns is great for the druid when facing the baron, as the druid lives primarily off fungus from forests which will be abundant while the baron relies on money which will be harder to come by. Switch to a developed era when there are plenty of towns and less forests, then the baron has a relative advantage.

At least CoE2 was like this.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Still holds true here. The agricultural period is fairly neutral for all classes, though it may give a bit of a comparative advantage to the sacrifice classes (Demonologist, High Priestess, Priest King, Bakemono and High Cultist).

All the others give definite advantages to certain classes.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Isn't it possible to compensate this a bit by giving classes with a clear disadvantage a compensation?
Something like more units or money at the start?

I guess competitive games might be restricted to certain ages otherwise, or certain classes are not played or not allowed to play.

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

The map scenario commands allow giving certain nations boosts at the start.
So players will be able to do that if they wish for any imbalance they feel exists. Just to temp-fix it

Re: CoE3 game variation ideas
 

Random luck is more of an equalizer than any design decision when one considers how things are now.

The warlock began as one of the weakest classes. His starting army was increased and his starting gem income was increased. Turned out that this made him too strong, so the gem income went back to the original level and the troops stayed.

But none of the tweaking really helps if you start off in a place like this:

http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/publi...impossible.jpg

That's from version 2.82, so some of the graphics are still old. The troll king can only move to take the port and then he must attack the wyrm in order to go anywhere. And the wyrm will eat him for breakfast 8 out of 10 times or so.

The different eras do not make enough of a difference balance wise that any starting armies would need to be modified. Ma,king scenarios, that's a different thing.