Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

Hi all,

Apologies if the post is not in the right place on the forum but I don't know where to write.

Is there a project team on a game dedicated to the 1914-1918 period?

Winspww2 and Winspmbt are fabulous.
When it is of Winspww1?

Regards

Yves

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

Pretty much nobody is actually interested in WW1, really.

You can simulate WW1 easily:
1) Try Poland V Poland in 1930 (for the large 13 man squads in POL) - or hack your own ersatz WW1 units and formations for an OOB.
Set the map to about 40-60 hexes wide (so not too much walking), and probably rather tall.

2) Select map #240 (WW1 Western front) in the set-up, or make your own custom map with deep trenches in both halves, based off a quick spin of the map generator using #240, #241 might do for Caporetto(sp?) if Italy vs Austria (use Germany for Austria, Or some other nation - Hungary may do).
2.1) Set turns to maximum (70 or whatever)

3) Choose a force manually for both sides consisting of nothing but grunts and MMGs, and off-map arty etc.

4) Off you go. See if you actually enjoy the experience...

and
5) for a realistic simulation of WW1 battles, you should really buy and set up manually for both sides but have player=COMPUTER for both. Let the game go, and watch the mayhem with your favourite beverage to hand. WW1 battles had no real command and control - so this is the closest you'll get to ""winding up a clockwork mouse" for each side and letting it go.

6) If feeling really dedicated - then hack an OOB, replacing the formations the AI tends to use with your new WW1 equivalents. e/g the tank coy with a rifle coy of your WW1 type, inf-AT with something else, etc. There are biplanes available as SHPs in some OOBS, flak would be less common etc. FT17 icons are there too.

But basically - other than the dedicated masochist, the "market" for WW1 is not there. Point (5) is really the killer as well, since even 1930 level command and control is way above 1914-18 (radios in all command units, no programmed fire and so on).

Cheers
Andy

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

Thank you Andy for your very clear explanation.
I understand better why this period was not taken into account by your team.
Regards
Yves

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

To me it sounds interesting. Perhaps it could be achieved also by a Mod

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

There was a group attempting to put one together for awhile 5 or so years back but it faded away. It's one thing to think a full game mod like this would be "interesting", it's quite another to assemble one and maintain it which is why winSPWW2 and WinSPBMT (and Andy and I) are rather unique.

Don

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

The group that faded away - that Don was probably referring to - was found here:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SPWW1mod/

So if you do build your own mod, they have some OOBs and icons etc that you can download here:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SPWW1mod/files/

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sAA8T4Z...Icons/Mk1M.bmp

I believe there was another group that attempted a WWI mod, but I don't think they got as far as the guys linked above.



Cross

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

Richard Hopkins, who oversaw that team, is still on this forum. I was in contact with him a few months back, but he was in the process of moving to another country.

I recently read an article by Dave Grossman on Rommel's light infantry and infiltration tactics against the Italians in WW1 - http://www.killology.com/maneuver_warfare.pdf. Apparently it wasn't all slogging it out in the trenches.

If any of you are in the military or law enforcement, I HIGHLY recommend LTC Grossman's works.

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

Actually think a WW1 version would be more interesting than ppl seem to think. It wasn't all the nice neat lines walking up to machine guns. In a lot of ways the war most fought in WW2 wasn't all that different, especially in the East. Tanks get most of the attention, but there were a lot of infantry actions in WW2 that wouldn't have been much different from WW1 toward the end - I don't think.

Probably the biggest difference was the LMG weighing in at 20 something pounds vs the WW1 HMG at 80 something.

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

I'd also be very interested in winspww1. Please keep us informed if you have any news. Thanks!

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

If there is any news I will be very surprised. AFAIK this project has been dead and buried for half a decade

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

I just posted a 1930 USA vs GER assault in Ardennes scenario. Just to see if this gives a taste of the action.
Could use a lot of work, but it was something I quickly made a few years ago. Look for it in the scenarios forum.

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

Unfortunately, Mnr Goodbrand is quite right. I was one of those working on the SPWW1 project. there are orbats and .shps for the DOS version and I can send them to you. We were OTBRL and the project petered out.

BTW I first conceived of doing WW1 because I wanted to do the campaigns in Africa, the Middle East and Asia. I really hadn't the slightest interest in doing trench warfare in Europe. (Artillery fire for three days, send infantry walking toward the enemy machine guns. Rinse and repeat.)

troopie

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

Thanks for the link! Also if you get a chance Rommel's (self-promoting) account of his exploits during WWI, Infantry Attacks (Infanterie Greift an) is well worth reading. Cheers.

Re: Project Winspww1 1914-1918 ?
 

If you want to know the problems of command and control, read some of the British Army histories of WWI. I just finished the first volume of the 1918 operations in France and Belgium which covers the first six days of the great March German offensive in the Somme region. Yes, the British Army was not trained for open warfare, was holding an extend front with inadequate forces and had little hope of meaningful reinforcement from England to the extent of not even being sent men to make of for the normal "wastage" on the front.

Several days into the offensive, code named Michael by the Germans and started on morning of March 21, 1918, C2 started going downhill in the British Fifth Army sector and was headed the same way in the Third Army sector. Morning mist at and fog really helped to conceal the German attack for the first several days which contributed to the lack of information available to command authority.

Units from battalion to divisions were forced to "retire", or attempt to, in daylight instead of at night which is more desirable in defensive operations. When the British established themselves in their new positions (to the best of their ability anyway) at the end of the days fighting, the Germans, who generally followed up the British retreat closely, knew where their enemies were going to be in the morning so they could plan their attacks accordingly.

Ironically, what slowed the German offensive was their own destruction of the area they gave up when the German Army retreated to the Hindenburg Line in 1917. Moving the reinforcement through the area, which need to be close behind the front lines so as to keep the momentum of the offensive going, was tough enough but bringing up the artillery and supplies soon became very difficult. Stories of German units stopping for the day to take advantage of British stores (that hadn't been destroyed )because they hadn't eaten for 48 hours were common. The Germans, by the fifth or sixth day of the offensive, were attacking with no artillery support simply because no guns had been able to advance quickly enough to provide the necessary support. It was here that German command and control started to break down also.

The second volume of the 1918 operations will cover the conclusion of the Michael offensive and begin the account of the Lys offensive in April of 1918.

It is fascinating reading, if tedious at times, of a period of military history that most today don't care much about. However, the "Great War" weighted deeply on the psyche of England, France and the US in the 20's and 30's and it behooves us, or me anyway, to learn more about it.

As for wargames, I have played or am playing several John Tiller games of WWI. The October Ypres battles were particularly bloody and moving the British and French units around in the restricted area east of Ypres is, well, a challenge. Are these games as interesting as games based in WWII? No, not necessarily. I'm playing them to try to get an idea of what the WWI situations were like.

Don Bennett
Evanston, WY