HappyKatanakka - MA Game COMPLETE
 

http://www.llamaserver.net/pretAdmin...HappyKatanakka

First: Katanakka is a Ninja holiday celebrated on the same day as Thanksgiving so "that [ninja] still get the day off".

Moving on... Legowarrior and I have been working on a new mod nation, MA Jomon, for some time now. With the release of version 1.2, we feel like the mod nation is mature enough to undergo real MP testing to see just how balanced and fun it is (both to play as, as well as against). This nation is intended for use with the latest version of the conceptual balance mod so this game will feature two mods: CBM 1.92 and MA Jomon.

This will be an intermediate-level game and it has room for 6 to 8 players; decent players as well as newbie players with a couple of MP games under their belt and a good grasp of Dominions 3 are welcome to join. The only reserved spots are for Legowarrior and myself, and nations will be claimed on a first-come, first-serve basis. This game will be set in the Middle Era and whatever map we choose (dependent on number of players, player preferences and number of water nations) will need to have a least a modest number of water provinces. Ideally I'd like to see at least one water nation played since MA Jomon, like LA Jomon, has a moderate underwater presence despite being predominately a land nation.

Victory will come from holding that majority of world's capital provinces for three consecutive turns (so 4 capitals with 6 or 7 players, 5 capitals with 8 players) OR until the a victor is decided by vote. Diplomacy is not binding, nor does it need to be public, but trades must be adhered to. Roleplaying and in-game banter is encouraged but not required. The game will start be hosted on llamaserver with an initial 36 hour hosting interval, which will be extended as the game goes on and turns become longer and more involved.

I would like to reiterate that this game is about two things: fun and testing MA Jomon. I strongly encourage you to check out the development threads here and here, as well as the mostly-accurate strategy guides here and here. If you end up playing in this game you'll have to download the MA Jomon v1.2 mod; before the game gets too far along, I'd recommend you play a short SP game as MA Jomon just so you have an idea of what to expect. As the game progresses, if you have any feedback relating to the mod, please, please, please post it in one of the development threads. Of course, feedback is welcome even if you're just checking out the mod for the heck of it and aren't participating in this game.


A little bit about MA Jomon, taken from the development thread:

Rationale
The goal of this mod is to create a nation similar to LA Jomon, with its unique summons and units, but in the Middle Era. However, achieving this goal requires more than just taking Late Era Jomon and putting it in the Middle Era; this nation should be distinct from all other nations, with it's own strengths, weaknesses, and character. To help accomplish this we are drawing inspiration from not only Late Era Jomon, but from Heian Period of Japan.


Introduction
During the time of the Oni, many humans fled the mountains and surrounding areas and traveled to the coast seeking protection. The Ryujin came upon these humans and offered them succor in exchange for treasure and allegiance. Although wary of exchanging one master for another, the Joman saw no other choice and agreed. With the fall of the Oni, a new empire was formed around the worship of the Dragon King and the lesser kami of the land. A strict hierarchy was formed with the Emperor on top and the peasant classes at the bottom. The Ryujin played the human clans against each other, trying to gain prestige and fortune at the expanse of other Ryujin. With the coming of the New God, the Ryujin have ceased their petty squabbling and united with the Jomonese to conquer new territory and find new riches for themselves.

Race: Humans and Ryu Court
Military: Light Infantry, Medium Infantry, Samurai Archers and Cavalry, Ninjas Assassins,
Magic: Average Earth, Nature, Water and Air, weak Fire and Astral, unique elemental priest magic
Priests: Weak


Player Roster
Shatner: MA Jomon
Legowarrior: Shinuyama
Rejakor: Ulm
RabbitCook: Oceania
Nimiria: Jotuheim
Gurthang: Marignon
Holey Dooley: Man

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

I claim the Shinuyama! I will rule the world with evil and demons!

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Good choice, sir. May the best Japanese-inspired, katana-and-kami nation win.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Your forgot Player 9: Profit

I'll think about joining. I have played 2 multiplayer games so far, I lost one and am losing the other. Sadly legowarrior took the nation I wanted.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

If you really want the Shinuyama, I can change, but than you must agree to confront the Jomon with all the wickedness that you can summon!

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

As slots are filling up surprisingly fast, I encourage Name Thief and Legowarrior to figure out exactly which non-Shinuyama nation one of them is going to play 'lest the choice ones get taken.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Well, if name thief needs to play as Shinuyama, I can live with that. I'll have to decide between Erui and Man I think. Still, this game has so many choices.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Well I kind of want to because in the other game I played I used them and would like to try to play as them again.

Don't worry Leggowarrior, I will confront these Ryu with the entirety of Goblin Craft.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

I would have edited but I apparently can't. Well, if I survive the next few turns in the game I am playing as without having my capital invaded I will be playing as Machaka, if not and I die then I, with leggowarriors permission, would like to lead Shinuyama.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Sure.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Alright. I've waited long enough for another player or three to wander in, but that just doesn't seem to be happening. As such, it's time to start beating the bushes for another player (1 minimum) or players (3 maximum).

Legowarrior, Name Thief, Rejakor, RabbitCook: if you guys can, think about other people you have enjoyed playing MP with, or otherwise know to be a decent potential player, and please PM them about this game. I will do the same in this and the Invision forum. If anyone spends any time on the IRC Channel, feel free to promote this game there as well. With a little luck, we'll have this game up and awaiting pretenders before the end of the weekend.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

I will join as Marignon.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Welcome aboard Gurthang. Glad to have you join up.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

NOTE: there is a known bug with the MA Jomon Mod which is causing every other nation to have access to the Lord of Storms, Lord of Plenty and Lady of Fortune pretenders. Nations which already have access to those pretenders will have two identical versions of those pretenders to choose from. If you end up playing as a nation which should NOT have access to those pretenders (i.e. do not have two copies of each), please don't use them. This is a bug that'll be fixed in the next (and hopefully final) version of the mod.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

That's seven players signed up. We have room for 1 more. I figure it we don't get an 8th player by mid-to-late tomorrow we'll move forward with just seven players.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

What map though?

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Put me down for Man thx.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Okay there are 2 DM files in the zip. They both appear in the preferences to be enabled.

Regardless of which one I enable, only the CBM mod appears listed on the screen as enabled.

Help!!

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

No, you are doing fine. We don't yet have an icon to show when the mod is enabled. For this game (and Shatner will correct me if I am wrong) we will use the first one of the list. The folders are in alphabetical order on most machines, so MA Jomon will appear before MA Jomon UW.
When you start a MA Game, Jomon will be on the list.

Good luck with Man!

By the way, are we doing this game with score tables?

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Cool, thx, and yes, I'll need luck with Man, in fact, I need luck with any nation I play!!!

Maybe I'll need a little more with Man..lol.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Also, you should do a quick run through with the Jomon so you know what to expect. Mostly, slow but powerful Saigu backed up with sturdy infantry without shields. Look out for sea attacks, since Wikou have Sail 2, and a strong underwater presence.

Oh, and if the Jomon aren't the last on the list when you go to nation selection, then you've used the wrong mod.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

In the next (and hopefully final) version of the MA Jomon mod, I'll be sure to make the two .dm files visibly distinct from the Dominions 3 mod preferences menu. That said, if you right click on a mod from that menu, it'll show you a description. The one you want is "MA Jomon as an entirely new nation" and not "MA Jomon - LA Jomon Overwrite with Underwater PD".



So, we have all eight players now. Excellent! We'll need to find a map that can support 7 land nations and 1 water nation. That means something on the order of 70 land and 10 water provinces for a tight game OR 105 land and 15 water for a game with more elbow room. How about the Desert Eye (108 land, 17 sea)? I'm playing on that map in another game and enjoying it. If you don't already have the map, you can download it here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?fipzdrqoadfuqri).


Beyond that, I figure pretty typical settings for the game:
Age - Middle
Independent Strength - 5
Research - default
Magic Sites - default
Money - default
Resources - default
Supplies - Default
Random Events - Default (which is Common)
Re-naming - On
Score Graphs - On
Hall Of Fame - 15

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Over at the Invision thread for this game (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...?showtopic=681) we're discussing which map to play. If you have an opinion on the matter, I encourage you to take a look at what's been said so far and offer your own thoughts. Posting over in Invision is simplest, but I'll be monitoring both threads and relaying info from one to the other as needed.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Looking For Players
 

Happy Katanakka is created and now ready for Pretenders to be submitted. Once everyone's pretenders are in, the game will start.

http://www.llamaserver.net/pretAdmin...HappyKatanakka

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Awaiting Pretenders
 

I've played a couple of quick trial games on the new map with 8 players and that map gets really crowded really fast. My normal mode of play involves more provinces per player so I'm accustomed to expanding for longer before the border skirmishes begin. That said, the trial games I've played have turned into crowded dog-piles really quickly and I'm not sure whether that's because this game map is genuinely overcrowded with 8 players or it just feels that way because I'm playing outside my comfort-zone.

I'd appreciate a second or third opinion on playing this map with 1 water and 7 land nations before we start the game and commit to a map for good.

well I got into a four way fight pretty quick against mighty ai. AI usual has a slow start though but if You found AI on your door step early it probably was to small. I can do a larger map.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Awaiting Pretenders
 

Alright, we have five of the eight pretenders in. Three more and we'll be good to go. I have decided on The Desert Eye; I think it'll play better and feel less like a knife fight in a phone booth.

Now that the game is getting close to being underway, I'm wondering if anyone wants to step forward and be co-admin for this game. I will diligently admin this game as best I can but sometimes I'm unavailable for a few hours here or there and I'd hate for someone to stall because of that.

Either post here in the thread or PM me if you're interested.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Awaiting Pretenders
 

I feel with 3 games and a thesis, and my general inexperience makes me not qualified to do this, but I will if no one else will.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Awaiting Pretenders
 

I'm sorry but I cannot participate. I had a crisis with my computer a while ago and have temporarily lost access to the game. Sorry if I have kept you waiting but this has been my first chance to post with a public computer since the event.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Awaiting Pretenders
 

I'm sorry for your techno-crisis, Name Thief. Thanks for stepping up initially. Hopefully we can play in another game some time. Thanks for getting me word on this.


With Name Thief out, we have seven players and seven pretenders submitted. I am changing the map back to the Realm of Many Tomatoes (it'll fit fine with 7 players) and kicking the game off.

GOOD LUCK! GOOD GAME!

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

Help! Everytime I try to access the game page to download the mod I get a blank screen and the sentence "This doesn't seem to be a real game!".

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

Hmm, I'm not sure what's up with that. Try downloading the mod directly with this link.
http://www.mediafire.com/?84fk039hpyzc38u

If you have any further problems or need to delay the hosting of this game, try PMing me since I don't seem to be getting an email notification when this thread is updated, and I understand this stuff can be time-sensitive.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

Thanks Shatner, I downloaded the mod and forwarded my turn. However, something should be done about the game page.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

Unfortunately, the game page links are set when you upload the map or mod into llamaserver. Specifically it asks for the shrapnel forum post# of the map or mod to create those links. I screwed up during the upload and posted the thread number, which is the more obviously visible number (you have to kind of dig to get the post#), which means those links are flat out wrong. However, you can't edit uploaded data in llamaserver; I could upload another copy of the mod with a different name, as well as another copy of the map with a different name and set the post#s correctly this time... but that would further complicate matters by having two MA Jomonv1.2 and two Realm of Many Tomatoes-Fixed files floating around.

Also, now that the game has started, I couldn't change the game to use the new links to the newly uploaded, duplicate files even if I wanted to. Sorry, it was ultimately my screw up and we're pretty much stuck with it now. However, the invision thread (which is linked to in the game's description) as well as the various development threads for MA Jomon (also linked to in the game's description) contain all the information I passed on to you. Really, you should ignore the game page's links entirely and look to the game description for your info instead... as well as posting in this thread and PMing the admin.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

Jomon will trade a number of water or nature gems for an equal number of astral pearls. If we receive word from a trading partner in time, we will send the gems out this very turn.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

MA Jomon: Year 1 retrospective

Looking at the start of turn 13, after a full 12 turns of gameplay have come and gone, let's see how ol' MA Jomon is measuring up to the rest of the world according to the charts:
Provinces: Tied for 2nd place with Shinuyama, close on the heels of front-runner, Ulm
Forts: 1st place! Let it be known that Jomon takes real estate investment seriously
Income: 2nd place, but only beating Ulm by about 30gp/turn
Gem Income: 1st place! Diverse casters help, but we've been lucky as well
Research: 4th place. Middle of the pack, but that comes from prioritizing site searching
Dominion: 6th place. While not surprising, this is worrying
Army Size: 4th place. A comfortable middle position. Jomon is "quality" troop nation anyway

Average Score: 2.9. Not bad; this is a game with a lot of stiff competition so I'm content with the score tables so far.


MA Jomon is not a straightforward nation. It has a lot of different troops, a lot of diverse magic, and a lot of strategic options but most of that's expensive and none of that carries a shield. Playing this nation well requires a lot of forethought and one of the reasons I'm happy with the scores so far is because I'm relieved I haven't made some massive blunder yet. I feel far from established, and I don't feel particularly ready or eager to engage in battle against someone who isn't an AI controlled indie force. However, if someone does come knocking, I'm confident I'll at least make it a bitter war, if not actually come out on top.

MA Jomon can really work with a lot of different builds. You have sacred recruitables and lots of sacred summonables so taking a couple of 4s or a 9 in one path or another on your pretender is mighty tempting. Of course, you really want order and production and magic and, well, everything, because MA Jomon can recruit some really nice stuff if you just have the money and resources for it. And while you have excellent, diverse mages at your disposal, none of them can leverage you particularly well into any of the three big late-game paths: death, blood or astral. So you might want to take some of that on your pretender. It's so much it'll make your head hurt contemplating it, but the point is that MA Jomon has a lot of different routes to victory so you need to plan on which one you want and design your pretender and scales appropriately. I went with modest scales (net of 4 positive) and a sleeping Son of the Dragon King pretender (makes a good rainbow, a good bless chassis and/or a decent combatant, depending on how you build and equip him).

MA Jomon has many priests but none of them are particularly holy. All save for the Saigu are H1s and even the Saigu is only an H2. I'm going to have to work especially hard to keep my provinces from becoming infested with black candles, and judging from the charts, I'm not doing a particularly good job. My prophet has been preaching his heart out for months, but I'll have to build more temples and more priests to keep the faith strong at home.

In anticipation of this game I played a couple of trial games against the AI, typically just playing for the first 12 turns before starting over. I did this to give me a feel for how this nation plays in the early game and how in the heck you can expand against indies without having too many dudes end up as arrow-filled fertilizer. One answer, though I'm not convinced it's the best answer, is samurai cavalry. At 35gp these guys are not cheap, but at 20 resources they offer the best butt-kicking-per-resource ratio of all your non-sacred troops. In my trial games, I'd just throw 5 or 10 samurai cavalry at various indies, just to see how they'd fare: militia, knights backed by longbows, bear warriors, skeletons, even the dreaded bloodhenge druids with their blood vines. And astonishingly, those 5 to 10 samurai would charge into battle and hack their way through darn near anything more often then not. It was... startling. And while an expansion party for 350gp and 200 resources isn't exactly cheap, it seems to be working out so far. I have since learned a few scripting tricks to get a lot more mileage out of my cheaper, non-mounted troops so I'm convinced that someone cleverer than I could have expanded just as well for far less gold than what I've done. Oh well.

Since it became clear that this was going to be a crowded, crazy, land-grab of an early game, I prioritized expanding across the land over expanding into the water. My neighbors have proven very successful at spreading out so I feel like I made the right decision there. Fortunately, I was able to dedicate one capital-turn to recruiting Shark Warriors and a Crab General to get me into the ocean before it was too late; shark warriors can soak a lot of abuse and coral-spear poisoning so they've served me well so far (but at 45gp and 21 resources each, they are expensive bastards). I immediately sent a Saigu and a couple of Onmyo-ji out site searching. This has left me behind on research but ahead on gem income.

At 350gp a piece, it's hard to afford Saigu in the first year. However, I prioritized getting a couple within the first six turns precisely to make me money. Saigu reduce unrest by 4/turn, which makes having one or two sitting around a castle researching a perfect invitation to overtax your population. My position in the income scale is somewhat inflated; my provinces aren't as rich as they look, I'm just taking more from my peasantry than most other nations. I took some growth to help mitigate the population lost from overtaxation. I've come to question this decision. MA Jomon has no old commanders. It also has numerous nature mages (including a conjuration-0 N2 kami who generates 45 supplies each) to help feed troops. As such, I'm thinking MA Jomon may get more mileage, point-wise, out of growth-0 or even death.

Given the blend of water and land on this map, and given how difficult it has become to expand, I have been making good use of a Wokou Captain or two to take troops sailing out to distant provinces to show distant indies the benevolent rule of the Jomon. While each Wokou Captain is a mage you didn't recruit, having someone who can go sailing offers some nifty flexibility to Jomon. For the sake of my neighbors, a warning: if you end up at war with MA Jomon, watch your coastline.

For now, Jomon is planning to grab what few remaining indies it can and then settle in. We will be ready for war if it comes to us, but we don't plan to seek it out. We have lots more to do, lots more to build, and lots more gold to squeeze out of our peasants to finance our expensive mages. We'll see how year two treats us.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

Yeah, I imagine your Wokou are going to piss a lot of people off this game.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

It's the same as fighting a sea nation. You have to put some PD on your shoes and have counter-raiding forces. Not really any different than fighting any cloud trapeze nation or stealth nation, so it's tactics you should have and know anyway.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

This is almost like a secret thread, since few people in our game post here.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

It's like a Tragedy of the Commons in reverse; no one is here to discuss game matters (they mainly post over in Invision) so no one bothers trying to post here to discuss game matters.

Re: HappyKatanakka - MA Game Underway
 

MA Jomon: Year 2 retrospective

Another full 12 turns of gameplay have come and gone, and a whole lot has been happening therein. Let's see how MA Jomon has fared through it all:
Provinces: 1st place! This is the result of lots of successful raiding, as is shown by Ulm being dropped from 1st to last place. However, once this war winds down, a large chunk of those provinces are going to be redistributed, so this number is somewhat inflated from it's "real" number.

Forts: 1st place! My early investment in real estate stands tall. Still, I am likely going to lose one of those forts to Ulm next turn so this is another number that's likely to change soon.

Income: 2nd place behind Shinuyama. My income chart has been zigzagging as provinces are captured, lost, overtaxed and exhausted and then allowed to return. I also have good scales but a weak dominion so having a province go from 1 white candle to 1 black candle represents a decent loss in income.

Gem Income: 1st place! Shinuyama and I have been neck and neck a lot lately, but since I am temporarily holding two-empires worth of provinces, my numbers are higher. This is another inflated value because of post-war province re-distribution, but that won't keep me from enjoying it here and now.

Research: 1st place! This has been another tight race between me, Shinuyama and Man. I can only attribute this to me having good scales and the time to accumulate a solid core of cheap-but-efficient researchers (something that was missing in the first year).

Dominion: 6th place. Unchanged from year 1. I was doing well for a time but all of my few non-H1s have been pulled out of the temples and into the labs/battlefields. Again, worrying.

Army Size: 2nd place. I've been funneling a lot of money into troops for a long time, many of which have been hiding behind walls or running around Ulm's backyard. Also, my pretender generates a small trickle of size-4 shark warriors, which certainly helps my numbers. That said, I'm 33% smaller than Shinuyama's crazy 1st place position. That's... a LOT of goblins.

Average Score: 2. Very nice and up from last year. I suspect that this represents a short-lived high point for my nation, while I'm holding most of Ulm's old territory before re-distribution occurs. But this last year hasn't exactly been easy so I'm pleased with my handling of things, both at home and at war. Of course, I'd feel better without an Ulm super-army sitting in my heartland, but I guess it can't all be sunshine and rainbows.


As I said last time, MA Jomon is not a straightforward nation, and for lots of this year I have been fighting Ulm, a profoundly straightforward nation (Ulm SMASH!). In fact, facing an enemy I can't hope to face in an open fight has forced me to consider all sorts of other strategies, a task which MA Jomon proved surprisingly but exceptionally well-suited towards. Flying raiders, naval raiders, amphibious raiders, and lots of N2 mages spamming vine arrow have come of this. It's gotten to the point where Legowarrior and I, with heavy assistance from this fine gaming community, are trying to find ways to limit MA Jomon's raiding potential in future versions of the mod. Rejakor's Ulm has proven to be a profoundly stubborn and cunning opponent, which is good for the sake of testing out MA Jomon but bad for the sake of me finishing this war. Just DIE already! Er, I mean, well done.

My place in the charts is very promising overall, but I find my dominion score very worrying. In the lead in to this game, a few people who'd played MA Jomon in MP games had spoken of troubles with black candle infestations. I wanted to give that a test in this game so I intentionally went with a weak-ish Dominion... and, well, I can see what they mean. I've been pretty intelligent in building walls of faith, using my pretender and my prophet to try and ward off the creeds pouring out of Shinuyama, Oceania and Ulm, but my efforts so far are... mixed. If/when I can find a moments peace, I'll have to dedicate a lot of time and energy into solving this problem... if I can. MA Jomon has many skills but candle-pushing doesn't seem to be one of them. That's not a bad thing inherently, every nation should have strengths and weaknesses, but I should take this as a sign that Legowarrior and I should advertize MA Jomon's weak priests more heavily so people go into playing MA Jomon with the right expectations.

Fighting against Ulm, while quite a challenge, is a weird experience. Since 90% of Ulm's force has thug, if not SC, levels of protection it means many of my troop options have been ignored because they would simply fail to scratch Ulmic steel. Wokou (the infantry, not the sailing commander), Ashigaru, Ashigaru Bowman, Miko, No Dashi Bushi, and Samurai Archers have all been used rarely, if at all (outside of the Ashigaru that make up my PD). That only leaves Onna Bushi, Naginata Bushi, Samurai Cavalry and Shark Warriors as troops worth recruiting, which has made for a very skewed trial of MA Jomon's troops. But, that's just how fighting Ulm goes.

For year three I'd like to end Ulm, divide up it's remains and then settle in to the business of peace. We'll see how well THAT idea holds up. If I had to boil this year's events down to a single sentence, it'd be this:
By land, sea, or air, MA Jomon will show up where you don't want it to be, and vanish from where you do.